DEANB:
Estra’s ERF HMO220N taken in Italy 1980.0
It looks right with a tilt 
. Hope that driver could reach the pedals! Robert
Dean’s picture of the Estra vehicle raises new questions and I need some of your close-observation skills here, chaps.
As you know, I have for some time now conflated the prototype NGC (shown in early promo material with no roof-vent or grille-top water cap lid), Estra/Calor’s HMO 220N and the wrecker registered Q824 RGC. This, because all three appeared to have no roof-vent or grille-top water cap lid. Also, because the wrecker has a mounting on the right-hand side of the grille where the haz-plate would have been (and indeed was, on the Estra vehicle).
Two items would seem to cloud the issue as I look again at these pictures today. Firstly, I notice that in both the front-end pictures of HMO 220N some sort of raised structure with a vent can be seen mounted midway above the windscreen on the roof, possibly to meet pet-regs [see pics below]. This vent structure does NOT appear on the wrecker. Secondly, I notice that both the Estra unit and the wrecker have a crude inspection lid added (not the standard factory one) [see last pic below].
From these observations one might infer that:
- HMO 220N didn’t go on to become the wrecker - I only supposed that it was based on the apparently erroneous belief that it had no roof vent.
- Q824 RGC was another unit, probably converted from the original prototype.
If this can be shown to be the case, we have an additional NGC in the stable!
Your thoughts please! Robert
ERF-NGC-European:
Dean’s picture of the Estra vehicle raises new questions and I need some of your close-observation skills here, chaps.As you know, I have for some time now conflated the prototype NGC (shown in early promo material with no roof-vent or grille-top water cap lid), Estra/Calor’s HMO 220N and the wrecker registered Q824 RGC. This, because all three appeared to have no roof-vent or grille-top water cap lid. Also, because the wrecker has a mounting on the right-hand side of the grille where the haz-plate would have been (and indeed was, on the Estra vehicle).
Two items would seem to cloud the issue as I look again at these pictures today. Firstly, I notice that in both the front-end pictures of HMO 220N some sort of raised structure with a vent can be seen mounted midway above the windscreen on the roof, possibly to meet pet-regs [see pics below]. This vent structure does NOT appear on the wrecker. Secondly, I notice that both the Estra unit and the wrecker have a crude inspection lid added (not the standard factory one) [see last pic below].
From these observations one might infer that:
- HMO 220N didn’t go on to become the wrecker - I only supposed that it was based on the apparently erroneous belief that it had no roof vent.
- Q824 RGC was another unit, probably converted from the original prototype.
If this can be shown to be the case, we have an additional NGC in the stable!
Your thoughts please! Robert
21
Intrestingly i have been trying to find out more about the wrecker but havent been able to get any information yet. However i will ask the son of the driver who drove the Estra unit to ask him if he knows
what happened to the unit when they disposed of it ■■
I think the wrecker is definately a different truck after re looking at the pics. Although i have had that second Estra pic for a while i must admit i had not noticed that grill/vent above the windscreen. I can only think that it was an early model before they changed the vent to the top of the cab on the roof ■■?
The roof vent must be detachable rather than part of the actual cab as per the pics of Garys one when Rene had it.In the shot in his garage its not on the lorry. Its not easy to see the inspection lid on the wrecker but i agree i think there is one.
I think the one that is the nearest match is the blue one we dont know anything about ■■ Having said that it could have been a rigid all the time and not stretched ■■? Questions,questions ■■?
Good detective work Dean 
: yes, the vent is clearly detachable - and in the case of HMO 220N, modified. Perhaps the blue one was also modified for haz-chem work, as it’s too late to be considered an early model (being on a P-plate).
That leaves me to alter my captions accordingly and update my version of the NGC Register, leaving HMO 220N at No.71 and moving Q824 RGC to No.84 .
Robert
ERF-NGC-European:
Good detective work DeanThat leaves me to alter my captions accordingly and update my version of the NGC Register, leaving HMO 220N at No.71 and moving Q824 RGC to No.84
Robert
So!!!
Where would one find a 7MW. NGC. For renovation??
Kenb
Mr Cooke are you listening?? Or not commenting ad usual!!
Kenb:
ERF-NGC-European:
Good detective work DeanThat leaves me to alter my captions accordingly and update my version of the NGC Register, leaving HMO 220N at No.71 and moving Q824 RGC to No.84
Robert
So!!!
Where would one find a 7MW. NGC. For renovation??Kenb
Mr Cooke are you listening?? Or not commenting ad usual!!
Hello Ken. There’s still that NGC in france, that was operated by R Collin on forestry work. Various people on here have been to see it but although it is completely intact and apparently mechanically sound, we’re told that the cab needs lots of restoration work and the owner wants far too much for it (what ever that is). I understand that it has now been tidied up and brought under cover. That’s all I know. As for Cookie, don’t worry! He follows this thread closely and lets me know if there’s anything to pop on here! Robert
Possible scenarios for Q824 RGC:
Built from new as a wrecker (highly unlikely, given that it was given a Q-plate, unless of course it was re-imported as a purpose-built wrecker).
Converted from a rigid-4.
Converted from a stretched tractive unit.
Converted from a rigid-4 or stretched tractive unit that had been re-imported 2nd-hand from the Continent.
Robert
That picture of that wrecker shows it is running on trade plates which was the norm at the time but when the law changed and they had to be taxed a lot of recovery vehicles were given q plates because a lot of them were conversions or had been built especially as wreckers
cookie1:
That picture of that wrecker shows it is running on trade plates which was the norm at the time but when the law changed and they had to be taxed a lot of recovery vehicles were given q plates because a lot of them were conversions or had been built especially as wreckers
Hello mate! Yes, you right. However, Q-plates were issued for different reasons and we don’t know whether in this case it was issued because it had been converted or because it was of indeterminate age. As it was probably quite ‘young’ when it was converted it is unlikely to have been of indeterminate age - ie they would have easily been able to prove its age even if it was a re-import. Likewise, when it was given a plate for taxation purposes they would have given it an N, P or R-plate commensurate with its age. Therefore, it is reasonable to suppose that in this case the Q-plate was awarded for conversion/alteration reasons. That leads us to wonder which NGC was converted, and whether it was a unit we already know about! Robert
Looking at the four photos above , of the wrecker , there are a few things to note .
Top pic , with Transcontinental in to would appear to be the oldest , as it is closest state to photo further up page of it at the recovery vehicle show but with a few additions. Namely it is now liveried up , and sports a visor . It is still fitted with an original looking front bumper , with red fog lights fitted to front of bumper . It is on trade plates .
Photos 3 &4 , now in red livery with white stripe . Still on trade plates . Now has heavier , non original front bumper , with red fog lights fitted above bumper . Visor removed . In pic 3 it has Bywaters skip Clydesdale on rear , with another Bywaters skip Clydesdale beside it.
Photo 4 , appears to be recovering Bywaters skip Clydesdale from a bit of a predicament.
Could pic 3 show this vehicle being backed into shed? .
Pic 2 , would appear to be the newest . Now on Q reg plate , fog lights now missing from non original bumper . Now appears a lighter red / more orange colour.Visor still absent . Now has same typeface & script & colour writing " RECOVERY SERVICE " compared to " RELIABLE RECOVERY SERVICES " in 1st photo .
Is recovering Bywaters Foden
Over to you 
Casual Observer:
Looking at the four photos above , of the wrecker , there are a few things to note .Top pic , with Transcontinental in to would appear to be the oldest , as it is closest state to photo further up page of it at the recovery vehicle show but with a few additions. Namely it is now liveried up , and sports a visor . It is still fitted with an original looking front bumper , with red fog lights fitted to front of bumper . It is on trade plates .
Photos 3 &4 , now in red livery with white stripe . Still on trade plates . Now has heavier , non original front bumper , with red fog lights fitted above bumper . Visor removed . In pic 3 it has Bywaters skip Clydesdale on rear , with another Bywaters skip Clydesdale beside it.
Photo 4 , appears to be recovering Bywaters skip Clydesdale from a bit of a predicament.
Could pic 3 show this vehicle being backed into shed? .Pic 2 , would appear to be the newest . Now on Q reg plate , fog lights now missing from non original bumper . Now appears a lighter red / more orange colour.Visor still absent . Now has same typeface & script & colour writing " RECOVERY SERVICE " compared to " RELIABLE RECOVERY SERVICES " in 1st photo .
Is recovering Bywaters FodenOver to you
I always enjoy your contributions on here CO. In fact, I came to the same conclusion as you when I was preparing Book 2, listing Reliable Recovery Services (London) followed by BFI Recovery Service. I omitted to insert the name of the company with maroon livery in first place simply because I have no name for them yet. BTW if you look at the panel behind the passenger door on the photo with the Q-plate you can see that the initials ‘BFI’ precede the words ‘recovery services’. Cheers, Robert.
Apparently Reliable Motors became F & S Motors about year before they packed in so i have been informed
on a recovery forum.Not sure where BFI had it before Reliable or after F & S motors ?
The reg Q824RGC now appears on a 8 wheeler that is in a museum.
DEANB:
Apparently Reliable Motors became F & S Motors about year before they packed in so i have been informed
on a recovery forum.Not sure where BFI had it before Reliable or after F & S motors ?The reg Q824RGC now appears on a 8 wheeler that is in a museum.
1
0
More good detective work! BFI would have had it after Reliable Motors for the reason given by Cookie and Casual Observer: Q-plates replaced trade-plates on breakdown wagons for taxation purposes. Robert
John Simmons ERF . Now this picture is a bit like an estate agents advert when they have a property for sale near the sea and they put “sea glimses” and add on another 100,000 grand for the privilege of looking
between two other properties or some trees to see a tiny bit of the sea. Look right,corner of bumper,
indicator etc of Simmons NGC ! 
DEANB:
John Simmons ERF . Now this picture is a bit like an estate agents advert when they have a property for sale near the sea and they put “sea glimses” and add on another 100,000 grand for the privilege of looking
between two other properties or some trees to see a tiny bit of the sea. Look right,corner of bumper,
indicator etc of Simmons NGC !0
Imagine the frustration of only glimpsing that much of the NGC from your balcony! Pity really because the picture is a good clear one. My flat has ‘sea glimpses’ but you have to crane your neck out of the window for them so I didn’t have to pay extra! Robert
ERF-NGC-European:
Casual Observer:
Looking at the four photos above , of the wrecker , there are a few things to note .Top pic , with Transcontinental in to would appear to be the oldest , as it is closest state to photo further up page of it at the recovery vehicle show but with a few additions. Namely it is now liveried up , and sports a visor . It is still fitted with an original looking front bumper , with red fog lights fitted to front of bumper . It is on trade plates .
Photos 3 &4 , now in red livery with white stripe . Still on trade plates . Now has heavier , non original front bumper , with red fog lights fitted above bumper . Visor removed . In pic 3 it has Bywaters skip Clydesdale on rear , with another Bywaters skip Clydesdale beside it.
Photo 4 , appears to be recovering Bywaters skip Clydesdale from a bit of a predicament.
Could pic 3 show this vehicle being backed into shed? .Pic 2 , would appear to be the newest . Now on Q reg plate , fog lights now missing from non original bumper . Now appears a lighter red / more orange colour.Visor still absent . Now has same typeface & script & colour writing " RECOVERY SERVICE " compared to " RELIABLE RECOVERY SERVICES " in 1st photo .
Is recovering Bywaters FodenOver to you
I always enjoy your contributions on here CO. In fact, I came to the same conclusion as you when I was preparing Book 2, listing Reliable Recovery Services (London) followed by BFI Recovery Service. I omitted to insert the name of the company with maroon livery in first place simply because I have no name for them yet. BTW if you look at the panel behind the passenger door on the photo with the Q-plate you can see that the initials ‘BFI’ precede the words ‘recovery services’. Cheers, Robert.[/quot
BFI also written on the front panel Robert,above the grille,preceding “Recovery Services”.
David
5thwheel:
BFI also written on the front panel Robert,above the grille,preceding “Recovery Services”.David
So it is! Robert