robert1952:
We’ve got several pictures on this thread of HNV 59N with no sign-writing and a non-descript trailer like the one below: I’ll wager these were taken at race circuits. I’m sure someone out there will verify this. Robert
Looks like it maybe Donnington ?.
@ DEANB and @ Carryfast above ^^: I agree! Robert
Carryfast:
robert1952:
We’ve got several pictures on this thread of HNV 59N with no sign-writing and a non-descript trailer like the one below: I’ll wager these were taken at race circuits. I’m sure someone out there will verify this. RobertLooks like it maybe Donnington ?.
Above still in white it is parked next to a “Watts Racing” van, and behind that you can see members of the team stood on the viewing platform of the trailer. I’d guess it it pulled that trailer before it was painted yellow.
Used to see HNV on a regular basis parked at ■■■■■■■ Oldbury/Smethwick depot (opposite Hall brothers steel) coupled to ■■■■■■■ training trailer. Colin.
colinwallace1:
Carryfast:
robert1952:
We’ve got several pictures on this thread of HNV 59N with no sign-writing and a non-descript trailer like the one below: I’ll wager these were taken at race circuits. I’m sure someone out there will verify this. RobertLooks like it maybe Donnington ?.
Above still in white it is parked next to a “Watts Racing” van, and behind that you can see members of the team stood on the viewing platform of the trailer. I’d guess it it pulled that trailer before it was painted yellow.
Used to see HNV on a regular basis parked at ■■■■■■■ Oldbury/Smethwick depot (opposite Hall brothers steel) coupled to ■■■■■■■ training trailer. Colin.
Well-spotted, Colin! This could, then, mean that the three pictures of it in plain white were taken when it was in the service of Redcap Transport (pre-livery), rather than Pountains. So we need more clarity, perhaps from ■■■■ Pountain himself! Robert
Have been told that the blue/green draw bar was French registered by a driver we know,who has seen
another pic of it somewhere but can remember where ■■? The person who took the photograph can not
rememer as it was 1974,however he is checking his records to see if he has anymore pictures of it !
Meanwhile I again got a confirmation that Damco Goedkoop & De Geus had more sub-contractors
with NGC’s in their fleet. Names of wellknown transportcompanies as Van Marion and Jawico have been mentioned and I’ve been promissed full support on pictures. Hence Willemstein was not the
‘only’ doing chemicals (hazardous materials) for ICI with NGC’s. Fingers crossed …
ERF-Continental:
Meanwhile I again got a confirmation that Damco Goedkoop & De Geus had more sub-contractors
with NGC’s in their fleet. Names of wellknown transportcompanies as Van Marion and Jawico have been mentioned and I’ve been promissed full support on pictures. Hence Willemstein was not the
‘only’ doing chemicals (hazardous materials) for ICI with NGC’s. Fingers crossed …
Look forward to seeing the photos when you get them ERF-Continental !
This was the B series that Barend Sjouw traded the NGC in for.
DEANB:
ERF-Continental:
Meanwhile I again got a confirmation that Damco Goedkoop & De Geus had more sub-contractors
with NGC’s in their fleet. Names of wellknown transportcompanies as Van Marion and Jawico have been mentioned and I’ve been promissed full support on pictures. Hence Willemstein was not the
‘only’ doing chemicals (hazardous materials) for ICI with NGC’s. Fingers crossed …Look forward to seeing the photos when you get them ERF-Continental !
This was the B series that Barend Sjouw traded the NGC in for.
0
I assume he was after economy rather than performance. According to Wobbe Reitsma, he traded it in after just one year because he wanted a better fuel return. But he didn’t trade like for like, because he got a Jennings conversion (all that was available in LHD in '76) with - wait for it - a ■■■■■■■ NHC 250 in it, which seems to be what most, if not all, of those earlier B-series in Holland seemed to have. I suppose it made sense if you were on domestic work in a country with almost no hills! To be fair, I did drive lorries with ■■■■■■■ naturally-aspirated 250s in, and they were fine in their day, even in the hills of northern England; and 250s were the norm well into the 80s.
In the light of the above insight, we can probably afford to read much less significance into the reports from Dutch drivers and operators that the B-series was much more frugal. If they were buying B-series with big-cam 350s in, we could take this more seriously! In fact, the 1980 Euro Test did include a LHD B-series with such an engine, and yes it was a bit more frugal 
. Robert
This article will appear in the April edition of the french transport magazine Des camions et des Hommes.
Hopefully it may give us some answers to some of the french NGC’s who we dont know who the hauliers
were,plus possibly some new leads.
Click on the pages for a clearer view.
It’s very nicely presented! We’ll need to keep someone with access to the magazine (perhaps in France) alert to the next few issues in case of replies. Likewise, we’ll need to do the same in Holland when the book review in Truckstar magazine eventually occurs! Robert
Remember that first ERF demo tractive unit, the one on the front of all the brochures and on the stand at the Brussels show in Jan '73? The one with no roof vent and no water filler cap?
I reckon I’ve worked out which unit it became. Although MMG 777P had no vent either, it did have a water filler cap. The only unit we have with neither, is HMO 220N (Estra/Calor) - the one that became Q824 RGC (wrecker).
All the other known NGCs had the vent and cap. If this demo unit was held at ERF in Sandbach for a couple of years it easily explains why it didn’t emerge onto the market unit 1975 on an N-plate, especially if it was the prototype.
It was earlier suggested on this thread that this unit became AFU 615 in Belgium (No.28 later 31) in the Van Steenbergen fleet, but it is difficult to imagine why, when that vehicle had both vent and cap.
A couple of years ago, ‘ERF’ of Peterboro’ kindly furnished with this info from the archives:
7MW
The first 7MW tilt cabbed ERF was chassis 22993, a model NGC 420 - A6.4.CU335 tractor unit. Recorded as a ‘Show Vehicle’. Despatched ex Sun Works on the 1st October 1973 as a stock vehicle to ‘■■■■■■■ Distributor Belgium’ 623/629 Chausses de Haecht, Brussels 3, Belgium. This vehicle was subject to warranty claims for defects found on delivery, and on nine occasions subsequently, the last being the 10th March 1976.
The second 7MW was chassis 24684, a model NGC 420 - A6.4.CU335 LWB. 15’ 9" wheelbase. Despatched the 14th August 1973. Again recorded as a ‘Show Vehicle’ to the same distributor as above. Note the date - we can conclude that this was the first 7MW to actually leave the works.
It was inferred from this info that because we knew the Thibaut drawbar outfit to have chassis 24684, that the other one must be the unit sent to Van Steenbergen - a fair assumption. However, we do not know how many ‘show’ vehicles ERF had in toto, nor how many NGCs they had in stock. But it is quite possible, if not probable, that the unit that went to Arendonk two whole months later, was not the unit displayed on the stand in Brussels.
With regard to the Calor tanker unit: I’m aware that we discussed that it would need to have its roof vent sealed of to meet pet-regs, but perhaps it was the other way round. IE, the unit fitted the bill because it didn’t have one. In any case, that could be sealed off without removing the vent itself. And it’s too much of a coincidence that the filler cap is absent.
Robert
robert1952:
DEANB:
ERF-Continental:
Meanwhile I again got a confirmation that Damco Goedkoop & De Geus had more sub-contractors
with NGC’s in their fleet. Names of wellknown transportcompanies as Van Marion and Jawico have been mentioned and I’ve been promissed full support on pictures. Hence Willemstein was not the
‘only’ doing chemicals (hazardous materials) for ICI with NGC’s. Fingers crossed …Look forward to seeing the photos when you get them ERF-Continental !
This was the B series that Barend Sjouw traded the NGC in for.
0
I assume he was after economy rather than performance. According to Wobbe Reitsma, he traded it in after just one year because he wanted a better fuel return. But he didn’t trade like for like, because he got a Jennings conversion (all that was available in LHD in '76) with - wait for it - a ■■■■■■■ NHC 250 in it, which seems to be what most, if not all, of those earlier B-series in Holland seemed to have. I suppose it made sense if you were on domestic work in a country with almost no hills! To be fair, I did drive lorries with ■■■■■■■ naturally-aspirated 250s in, and they were fine in their day, even in the hills of northern England; and 250s were the norm well into the 80s.
In the light of the above insight, we can probably afford to read much less significance into the reports from Dutch drivers and operators that the B-series was much more frugal. If they were buying B-series with big-cam 350s in, we could take this more seriously! In fact, the 1980 Euro Test did include a LHD B-series with such an engine, and yes it was a bit more frugal
That would be hard work,nothing worse than going from a big engine to small engine ! Whilst Holland is flat i think there gross weight was much more than in the UK back in the 1970s,possibly something like 50 tons ?
DEANB:
That would be hard work,nothing worse than going from a big engine to small engine ! Whilst Holland is flat i think there gross weight was much more than in the UK back in the 1970s,possibly something like 50 tons ?
Yes you’re right: it was 50 tonnes.
I’ve come to the conclusion that fuel economy is something of a red herring when asking questions about the demise of the NGC in 1977. I can sum this up as follows:
It was reported in an article by Wobbe Reitsma in a REVS article that Barend Sjouw traded his NGC in for a B-series after just one year because he wanted a better fuel return. He also reported to me that it was specifically Dutch operators who preferred the more frugal B-series, even if their drivers didn’t. However, it is important to recognise that many of the LHD B-series sold in Holland were for domestic use in a flat landscape and that these vehicles were Jennings sleeper conversions with the ■■■■■■■ NHC 250 engine (an older, naturally aspirated version of the same 14-litre lump) – hardly a comparable unit with the powerful longer-haul NGC. Barend Sjouw’s replacement B-series was one such vehicle. Therefore, it seems prudent not to attach significance to the fuel factor in the NGC’s demise. In any case, as reported elsewhere in this volume, ERF was already experimenting with the big-cam 290 in the NGC, which would have put it on a par with the later high-roof Euro-spec B-series which had the same power plant.
Robert
DEANB:
View from the back.I remember both of these motors well !0
This has to be Phil Horridge’s NGC,Dean! This is the best example I’ve yet seen of any attempt to blank out the glass areas to the side and rear of the 7MW cab. 
Nice pic. Robert
robert1952:
DEANB:
View from the back.I remember both of these motors well !This has to be Phil Horridge’s NGC,Dean! This is the best example I’ve yet seen of any attempt to blank out the glass areas to the side and rear of the 7MW cab.
Indeed Mr Horridge. I wonder why they never blanked out the rear passenger side window,probably for
blind side reversing ■■ I reckon thats the best pic of it.
DEANB:
robert1952:
DEANB:
View from the back.I remember both of these motors well !1
This has to be Phil Horridge’s NGC,Dean! This is the best example I’ve yet seen of any attempt to blank out the glass areas to the side and rear of the 7MW cab.
Indeed Mr Horridge. I wonder why they never blanked out the rear passenger side window,probably for
blind side reversing ■■ I reckon thats the best pic of it.0
Another great pic, Dean. I think Geoff Luther took them, as I have an almost identical shot of its driver, Bob Jarrett, lounging against it in Book 2! robert
ERF-Continental:
Meanwhile I again got a confirmation that Damco Goedkoop & De Geus had more sub-contractors
with NGC’s in their fleet. Names of wellknown transportcompanies as Van Marion and Jawico have been mentioned and I’ve been promissed full support on pictures. Hence Willemstein was not the
‘only’ doing chemicals (hazardous materials) for ICI with NGC’s. Fingers crossed …
@Deanb…first of all compliments regarding your article in the French magazine! I am
confident sooner or later some input and feedback will come as most French are keen
in hoarding memorabilia.
My first feedback on the Damco-GG in relation to the NGC is that indeed VAN MARION
did had one which also might proof the other OLIVE colour before it did service in the
(blue/yellow/white) livery for Damco GG. Now (still) fingers crossed for pictures and
info on the driveline, registration etc.
By the way…I didn’t forget the request for the Thibaut ERF (with trailer) but I had put
it away to well and with again a removal oncoming…I will do my best.
A-J
ERF-Continental:
ERF-Continental:
Meanwhile I again got a confirmation that Damco Goedkoop & De Geus had more sub-contractors
with NGC’s in their fleet. Names of wellknown transportcompanies as Van Marion and Jawico have been mentioned and I’ve been promissed full support on pictures. Hence Willemstein was not the
‘only’ doing chemicals (hazardous materials) for ICI with NGC’s. Fingers crossed …@Deanb…first of all compliments regarding your article in the French magazine! I am
confident sooner or later some input and feedback will come as most French are keen
in hoarding memorabilia.My first feedback on the Damco-GG in relation to the NGC is that indeed VAN MARION
did had one which also might proof the other OLIVE colour before it did service in the
(blue/yellow/white) livery for Damco GG. Now (still) fingers crossed for pictures and
info on the driveline, registration etc.By the way…I didn’t forget the request for the Thibaut ERF (with trailer) but I had put
it away to well and with again a removal oncoming…I will do my best.A-J
Here are a couple of pics of Van Marion artics of the '70s. Later ones in the early '80s appear to be a deeper yellow. Robert
