Conor:
As to the phone call, why shouldn’t you get one? The employer required something to be done. The fact it involves transporting a leaving driver is completely irrelevant.
Why not ring the driver concerned? Why tell me to tell him? Sounds childish. Before anyone says “perhaps he had no signal” I’ll point out he was following me.
Your employer rang you with some instructions that he wanted followed. He rang you because you (presumably…) will be still working for him next week - the other guy definitely wouldn’t so would probably have told your employer to ■■■■ off… Do you not think that your employer thought about who he was ringing and why?
Always had contracts anywhere I’ve worked, I can’t see why any decent company wouldn’t give you one. Sometimes they help you out, some times they don’t.
Conor:
As to the phone call, why shouldn’t you get one? The employer required something to be done. The fact it involves transporting a leaving driver is completely irrelevant.
Why not ring the driver concerned? Why tell me to tell him? Sounds childish. Before anyone says “perhaps he had no signal” I’ll point out he was following me.
Your employer rang you with some instructions that he wanted followed. He rang you because you (presumably…) will be still working for him next week - the other guy definitely wouldn’t so would probably have told your employer to ■■■■ off… Do you not think that your employer thought about who he was ringing and why?
Childish indeed
Maybe mate but I like to be left alone and not involved.
…Experience has taught me to be suspicious of people.
First place I worked we didn’t have a written contract. Nobody thought anything of it at first until they started changing shift patterns round however they pleased, increasing peoples hours and affecting the day rate we were on (4 on/4 off to 5/6 day weeks for same salary). Basically, most of the spiel we were told at interview about hours & pay gradually went out of the window and there was little anyone could do about it.
Don’t suppose it’s a massive problem if your employer is decent, if they are a bit dodgy though be wary. The industry seems to be littered with cowboys.
When i come back from Canada i was lying in bed about 10am i got a phonecall theres a lorry in the yard and ive got a mile of stuff to shift get your arse down here sharpish and ive been there ever since some employers you can still take on there word and there hand shake mind you that goes for employees too.
beetee07:
You are so wrong an employer can’t give a bad reference it is against the law he can refuse to give a reference.
Go on then - against which law? If one is provided, it has to be fair and accurate (and for this reason some employers are reluctant to give one) but there is nothing in English law to say that they cannot give a bad reference (provided it can be justified).
think have only ever had 3 contracts since leaving school, been in my current job for 8 yrs and never had one, a hand shake was good enough, but there again I have known my boss for 20 yrs
beetee07:
You are so wrong an employer can’t give a bad reference it is against the law he can refuse to give a reference.
Go on then - against which law? If one is provided, it has to be fair and accurate (and for this reason some employers are reluctant to give one) but there is nothing in English law to say that they cannot give a bad reference (provided it can be justified).
must be fair and accurate - and can include details about workers’ performance and if they were sacked
can be brief - eg job title, salary and when the worker was employed"
Try reading the employment law book any employer who gives a bad reference leaves them self wide open to prosecution. That why any decent employer will refuse to give a reference .
i’m a self employed subbie paid through the CIS (construction industry scheme), as i work for a small utilities company.
been with them since july last year,havent even had a wage slip!! doesnt really matter as everything paid into bank(and i know what i’m due every week) so just need a pay statement every april for the accountant.
well i have been going through some application forms lately, and chasing up a ref prior to interview, maybe not the done thing but it saves us and the applicant time if the CV is full of crap, which lets face it most are! and due to todays benefit system some send in a cv just to show benefits agency, rather then actually want a job… I have had no one yet refuse to give a reference, and some have been bad references… though this is only verbal so no evidence, however as long as the reasons are fact and true i cannot see a problem and its how it should be…
beetee07:
You are so wrong an employer can’t give a bad reference it is against the law he can refuse to give a reference.
Go on then - against which law? If one is provided, it has to be fair and accurate (and for this reason some employers are reluctant to give one) but there is nothing in English law to say that they cannot give a bad reference (provided it can be justified).
must be fair and accurate - and can include details about workers’ performance and if they were sacked
can be brief - eg job title, salary and when the worker was employed"
Try reading the employment law book any employer who gives a bad reference leaves them self wide open to prosecution. That why any decent employer will refuse to give a reference .
Wide open to prosecution for what, exactly (it must be in “the employment law book” somewhere)? Do you not understand the difference between something being “not a good idea” or “not in your best interests” and it being “against the law”?
The point is it would only be defamation if it was untrue. If the ‘bad’ reference contained verifiable facts, even if they were unfavourable to the ex employee, it would not be illegal.
beetee07:
So your saying that slander is not illegal because that’s what a bad reference is and as far as I know slander will end up in court.
I’m not saying anything of the sort! You are the one making apparently baseless assertions (e.g. Giving a bad reference is “against the law” and that details are to be found in “the employment law book”. Before you go any further down this particular line, can I suggest you look up the definition of “libel” (which is what I think you meant when you wrote “slander”). Then re-read my comment further back up the thread where I said that a reference must be fair and accurate. Do you see why such a reference, even a bad one, would not amount to libel (let alone slander, which is verbal defamation, rather than written)?
beetee07:
So your saying that slander is not illegal because that’s what a bad reference is and as far as I know slander will end up in court.
I’m not saying anything of the sort! You are the one making apparently baseless assertions (e.g. Giving a bad reference is “against the law” and that details are to be found in “the employment law book”. Before you go any further down this particular line, can I suggest you look up the definition of “libel” (which is what I think you meant when you wrote “slander”). Then re-read my comment further back up the thread where I said that a reference must be fair and accurate. Do you see why such a reference, even a bad one, would not amount to libel (let alone slander, which is verbal defamation, rather than written)?
I am not making so called baseless comments don’t look up government websites get yourself a book of employment law and look it up for yourself.
You are obviously looking this all up on the web try reading a book instead I’m not looking for an argument over this but you seem to be so i leave you to find the correct answers for yourself (it also helps when you have a employment law solicitor for a brother in law which I do so last comment from me. )
beetee07:
You are so wrong an employer can’t give a bad reference it is against the law he can refuse to give a reference.
Go on then - against which law? If one is provided, it has to be fair and accurate (and for this reason some employers are reluctant to give one) but there is nothing in English law to say that they cannot give a bad reference (provided it can be justified).
must be fair and accurate - and can include details about workers’ performance and if they were sacked
can be brief - eg job title, salary and when the worker was employed"
Try reading the employment law book any employer who gives a bad reference leaves them self wide open to prosecution. That why any decent employer will refuse to give a reference .
Yes, you maybe correct but I think Roymondo has covered this
it has to be fair and accurate
I think that sums it up. Cannot give a bad one but it has to be fair and accurate
No, I’m not just looking this stuff up - I already know and understand it, thanks - and I have read several books on the subject (but I did search out some web links to save me typing the whole lot out myself).
Please, go back to your brother-in-law and ask him to explain it to you again - particularly the bit about truth being an absolute defence to an action for defamation. Then reconsider your “giving a bad reference is against the law” assertion in the light of what he tells you.
