ItsJoe:
… having a delegated examiner gives ES the edge on PSTT though.
Did you even read (or understand) Peter’s post??
Peter Smythe:
… ES has a “delegated examiner”. This means he is DVSA trained (in fact, the guy used to work as a DVSA examiner in a former life). The examiner is on ES staff. The downside is that he can only test folks who are employed, or are going to be employed by ES. He cannot test the public.
I had the first private driving test centre in the UK - now coming up for 10 years. With this, the examiners are seconded to us on a daily basis by DVSA who also fully employ them…
Not wishing to argue with the adults who know what they are talking about…
But Mr Smythe has explained what the role of the delegated examiner is, but hasn’t said the pros and cons of having one. Now ES might employ him simply for the status of doing so - but I’m guessing that isn’t the case.
Theoretically (and I’m happy to be told I’m wrong/silly here) - if they can conduct tests more frequently then that surely is an edge? If you do your training and wait 3 months for a retest you are going to have some skill fade. If you can do it 3 days later then less so. I’m using extremes in times to demonstrate a point.
Now - I’ve trained with PSTT and I think they are brilliant. I think their vehicles are top notch. I think their staff are great. I think their facilities are amazing. And I know nothing about ES training. But if they can arrange retests/tests more easily/quickly then that is a stand out point. If they can stop a test a day before the test at no penalty because someone isn’t ready then it’s better for the school and the customer.
I have zero idea is ES driving school is any good. But I think the idea of any business employing an examiner at no benefit is frankly ridiculous. There must be something in it either for them or their students for them to do so. I don’t know what that is exactly yet - so I’m just guessing. But I shall ask on monday and report back.
PSTT like all school have to book their tests through the DVSA and wait for a slot.
… and exactly where did you get that from? Yes, we book our tests with DVSA but they are booked 3 months in advance (other trainers can only get 10 weeks in advance) giving us first pickings. We also hold tests back for retests to avoid huge waits.
It is true that a delegated examiner may be able to offer tests quickly and flexibly - - but not to members of the public.
Obviously each individual has their own choice. I have never met PS or seen his training facilities, however many on here have and claim that they are second to none.
ESL would sell your Grandma given an opportunity, not only that, they would undercut anyone else’s Grandparents sale too.
Apart from the fact that PS is highly recommended (along with other trainers who feature on this forum), he is a forum sponsor and we should ’ get behind our own '. Haulage has enough problems of its own at the minute, and in my opinion we should be trying to support genuine trainers and not some faceless huge company that is only interested in money.
The only reason in the first place that ESL has poked its green nose into training is because the firm is so desperate for drivers.
DON’T WORK FOR PEANUTS AND DONT FUEL THE MACHINE. Train cheap and get paid cheap.
This thread is embarrassing. Pete, you’re obviously passionate about your company but stop spreading misinformation about ES training. Test fee is included in this offer (it doesn’t say otherwise) and their delegated examiner can test members of the public. You’re obviously struggling to compete with that offer but here’s the crazy thing, you don’t have to. ES is over a hundred miles away from you.
As for you eagerbeaver, you admit you know nothing about either school so you’re commenting out of pure hatred for ES.
ItsJoe:
This thread is embarrassing. Pete, you’re obviously passionate about your company but stop spreading misinformation about ES training. Test fee is included in this offer (it doesn’t say otherwise) and their delegated examiner can test members of the public. You’re obviously struggling to compete with that offer but here’s the crazy thing, you don’t have to. ES is over a hundred miles away from you.
As for you eagerbeaver, you admit you know nothing about either school so you’re commenting out of pure hatred for ES.
Actual reading this thread it’s you Joe who keeps making false claims and assumptions about PSTT a firm you know nothing about.
I think it’s great you found a good trainer and had a good experience. Especially as I think you’re the guy who got conned by EPL. It’s good you bounced back from that.
But maybe stick to just your own experience of ES and leave it at that. I trained at PSTT was actually lucky enough to be taught by Pete himself. He is incredibly knowledgeable and having been around donkeys years knows his stuff. I doubt anything he’s stated is incorrect. Now it may be that ES bend the rules but that’s be a different matter entirely.
ItsJoe:
This thread is embarrassing. Pete, you’re obviously passionate about your company but stop spreading misinformation about ES training. Test fee is included in this offer (it doesn’t say otherwise) and their delegated examiner can test members of the public. You’re obviously struggling to compete with that offer but here’s the crazy thing, you don’t have to. ES is over a hundred miles away from you.
As for you eagerbeaver, you admit you know nothing about either school so you’re commenting out of pure hatred for ES.
Actual reading this thread it’s you Joe who keeps making false claims and assumptions about PSTT a firm you know nothing about.
I think it’s great you found a good trainer and had a good experience. Especially as I think you’re the guy who got conned by EPL. It’s good you bounced back from that.
But maybe stick to just your own experience of ES and leave it at that. I trained at PSTT was actually lucky enough to be taught by Pete himself. He is incredibly knowledgeable and having been around donkeys years knows his stuff. I doubt anything he’s stated is incorrect. Now it may be that ES bend the rules but that’s be a different matter entirely.
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Just look at this thread from the beginning, it was Pete and others that chimed in. I later stated that having a delegated examiner gives ES an edge on PSTT because of the fact ES have a lot more control and flexibility on tests. I haven’t said a single bad word about PSTT. I know for a fact that they test members of the public because I’m one and during my training there was only 1 ES employee doing his training and the outright lie that test fees aren’t included was ridiculous considering it says nowhere on ES website that is the case.
As I’ve already said. ES and PSTT are over a hundred miles apart so why Pete needed to jump in this thread advertising his business and trying to match ES prices is just beyond me.
I have nothing against anybody on this forum and to be honest it’s quite shocking the way I’m being lambasted for saying having a delegated examiner is an advantage. That isn’t a criticism of PSTT in any way, shape or form and if you think it is then I apologise for not making my point clearer.
Does the OP think by having a delegated examiner and that ESL are offering “a guaranteed interview” that the examiner may be a bit more lenient on the test as if he was in the same role testing another candidate from another HGV training school■■? Does he think another retest can be booked by credit card and take the test again in the afternoon■■?
A guaranteed interview is just that - an interview. They might offer you a job miles away, may not offer you any job.Pay, hours, conditions.
PSTT offer the same training, ok, they have assigned examiners and test on their own site. They don’t claim to offer the earth just to get you trained up fully for the end goal - your license and the confidence that you are at the standard required.
To the OP your choice - if you feel a delegated examiner will make it easy then ring up on Monday and book your place. You may get “sucked into the ESL brand” and work for peanuts.
If you want a license with no frills no promises then I know which one I will be choosing. Yes it may be true that you may be “passed by ESL” and pushed into the job but are you fully qualified? - in mind I mean not in license form?
I admire PSTT for their passion, their commitment and their honesty. If you are nervous then pay the extra for pass protection (please dont start that old thread again about the ins and outs). For the extra at least you have peace of mind that if anything went a miss then nothing to shell out for the retests.
ItsJoe:
This thread is embarrassing. Pete, you’re obviously passionate about your company but stop spreading misinformation about ES training. Test fee is included in this offer (it doesn’t say otherwise) and their delegated examiner can test members of the public. You’re obviously struggling to compete with that offer but here’s the crazy thing, you don’t have to. ES is over a hundred miles away from you.
As for you eagerbeaver, you admit you know nothing about either school so you’re commenting out of pure hatred for ES.
Actual reading this thread it’s you Joe who keeps making false claims and assumptions about PSTT a firm you know nothing about.
I think it’s great you found a good trainer and had a good experience. Especially as I think you’re the guy who got conned by EPL. It’s good you bounced back from that.
But maybe stick to just your own experience of ES and leave it at that. I trained at PSTT was actually lucky enough to be taught by Pete himself. He is incredibly knowledgeable and having been around donkeys years knows his stuff. I doubt anything he’s stated is incorrect. Now it may be that ES bend the rules but that’s be a different matter entirely.
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Just look at this thread from the beginning, it was Pete and others that chimed in. I later stated that having a delegated examiner gives ES an edge on PSTT because of the fact ES have a lot more control and flexibility on tests. I haven’t said a single bad word about PSTT. I know for a fact that they test members of the public because I’m one and during my training there was only 1 ES employee doing his training and the outright lie that test fees aren’t included was ridiculous considering it says nowhere on ES website that is the case.
As I’ve already said. ES and PSTT are over a hundred miles apart so why Pete needed to jump in this thread advertising his business and trying to match ES prices is just beyond me.
I have nothing against anybody on this forum and to be honest it’s quite shocking the way I’m being lambasted for saying having a delegated examiner is an advantage. That isn’t a criticism of PSTT in any way, shape or form and if you think it is then I apologise for not making my point clearer.
Pete only chimed in after his business got mentioned and to clear up some possible confusion. I don’t think you can blaim him for also pushing his own firm when he’s the forum sponsor!
On the subject of delegated examiner Pete says that it goes against the rules of being that kind of examiner. Pete is likely to know what he’s on about. But you and many others got trained by ES all the same. Is it not possible ES are bending the rules? Being a bit naughty?
As far test fees being included. I had a quick look at the ES website. It doesn’t say fees are included. It doesn’t say fees are NOT included either. So it could be either and to say it’s one or the other is an assumption. Tbh it should be a question anyone ringing to book with ES asks.
I’m not personally trying to get at you by the way. Simply as a forum member I’m interested in getting to the simple truths so that others looking to get into driving don’t fall into one of many pitfalls.
ItsJoe:
Just look at this thread from the beginning, it was Pete and others that chimed in. I later stated that having a delegated examiner gives ES an edge on PSTT because of the fact ES have a lot more control and flexibility on tests.
Joe,
Just remove your green tinted spectacles for a minute and consider this: [ ]
The point that you still seem to be missing is that you’re not comparing like-for-like.
It seems to be agreed that ES has delegated examiner status, and that they can’t therefore test members of the public.
It seems to be agreed that Peter has a completely different status as he has made clear.
Don’t you think that comparing the two and coming out with your assertion that ES has an “edge” is somewhat erroneous since the two organisations have two completely different ‘customer’ types??
Sorry mate, but I’m not seeing any “edge” (for either organisation) at all for the reason that their target audiences are a completely different demographic.
ItsJoe:
The point that you still seem to be missing is that you’re not comparing like-for-like.
It seems to be agreed that ES has delegated examiner status, and that they can’t therefore test members of the public.
It seems to be agreed that Peter has a completely different status as he has made clear.
Don’t you think that comparing the two and coming out with your assertion that ES has an “edge” is somewhat erroneous since the two organisations have two completely different ‘customer’ types??
Sorry mate, but I’m not seeing any “edge” (for either organisation) at all for the reason that their target audiences are a completely different demographic.
The link PS gave states:
You can allow your delegated driving examiners to carry out tests and train:
candidates who are employees of that organisation
potential employees of that organisation
As pretty much any member of the public can be a potential employee. I don’t see the distinction between people who are offered an interview (who have the the right to potentially decline the interview after training) and members of the public - if I’m offered an interview then I’m a potential employee. I’d hazard a guess that ES would quite like to employ the drivers they train as they will be used to similar equipment - but that’s not important to me.
I agree that there isn’t enough edge to make any difference to anyone of sound mind. And only quality of training and cost matter really. However, I don’t see why they have different customer types and demographics… I’d consider either - and will probably book with PSTT tomorrow after finding out the details from ES. If I was closer to ES then I’d be tempted to book with them.
Now IF ES are offering the course for £1080 (including VAT) including the cost of the test. AND they offer a good service. Then that’s good for the driver. If what Joe has said about retests is accurate (in terms of cost and training) then that’s good for the aspiring driver. If the retest can be conducted quickly that’s good for the driver. I really can’t see why people have a problem with this. That’s a lot of IF’s and I don’t know if they are accurate yet.
Now I say what I think to the point of is causing me problems. But for a while on here it’s been pointed out that certain schools having their own test centre is an advantage… And I agree is it. However I’m guessing the smaller operations or those without the capital who couldn’t afford this were not to happy to have it pointed out. However now one big corporate monster has gone one step further people seem to want to ignore any potential benefit - and imply they are somehow breaking rules and cannot conduct tests for people like me. However the link makes it clear they can if someone is a potential employee. If anyone feels what ES is wrong the way to report this is in the link provided by Pete. However I can’t see that they actually are from my limited knowledge and experience.
I start my training with stobarts tomorrow. It has cost me £2,880.35 which includes theory, cpc, class 2 and c+e. I chose this simply based on location and flexibility around my current job. I don’t believe that having the examiner offers any sort of advantage, and when I spoke to the training centre their retest fees are quiet high (400 inc vat). The other thing I was told with stobarts is that you can have 2 retest at both class 2 and ce but if you fail 3 times at any test then they will release you from the course. Just a rule they have. Training starts tomorrow so will open a thread to update as I go.
ItsJoe:
This thread is embarrassing. Pete, you’re obviously passionate about your company but stop spreading misinformation about ES training. Test fee is included in this offer (it doesn’t say otherwise) and their delegated examiner can test members of the public. You’re obviously struggling to compete with that offer but here’s the crazy thing, you don’t have to. ES is over a hundred miles away from you.
As for you eagerbeaver, you admit you know nothing about either school so you’re commenting out of pure hatred for ES.
Quite an odd response considering I worked for ESL out of Appleton…
sammym:
Now I say what I think to the point of is causing me problems. But for a while on here it’s been pointed out that certain schools having their own test centre is an advantage… And I agree is it. However I’m guessing the smaller operations or those without the capital who couldn’t afford this were not to happy to have it pointed out. However now one big corporate monster has gone one step further people seem to want to ignore any potential benefit - and imply they are somehow breaking rules and cannot conduct tests for people like me. However the link makes it clear they can if someone is a potential employee. If anyone feels what ES is wrong the way to report this is in the link provided by Pete. However I can’t see that they actually are from my limited knowledge and experience.
IMHO, those are all fair points sammym.
For the other schools, it’s not just about having what most people would see as the capital to invest in their business, they’d also need a fair sized piece of land with access, buildings and planning permission etc. There are lots of regulatory hoops for them to jump through, which massively increases the capital needed once the full facts are known.
How do you feel about paying a lot more for the course than somebody who got it for cheaper with this promotion?
Same as I do when I buy a new TV and then see it cheaper a couple of weeks later - yes it stings but I wanted to do it and thats the price I agreed; at the moment I feel a little shafted, if the fees go up after christmas then I got a bargain
andywilliams1187:
I start my training with stobarts tomorrow. It has cost me £2,880.35 which includes theory, cpc, class 2 and c+e. I chose this simply based on location and flexibility around my current job. I don’t believe that having the examiner offers any sort of advantage, and when I spoke to the training centre their retest fees are quiet high (400 inc vat). The other thing I was told with stobarts is that you can have 2 retest at both class 2 and ce but if you fail 3 times at any test then they will release you from the course. Just a rule they have. Training starts tomorrow so will open a thread to update as I go.
Any chance of a breakdown of exactly what that covers and how it works out?
Taking their figure of £2400 plus vat it should be: £2880. Which is only 35p off your figure. So would imply to me it includes the test fee. But for others going forward - does it include theory test fees? Does it include CPC mod 2 assessment? Do they offer training for these?
Overall if all fees are covered - then I think it’s a reasonable price. I paid for all my theory training and tests myself. And once you add up books and apps etc including test fees you easily have another £100 of value there - if they include all that.
CPC
Theory training and test
Class 2 training and test
C+E Training and test
The extra 35p is what they charge for paying by a debit card which really pi***d me off - especially when handing over nearly 3k
But all tests are included with the price
Cheers - it’s pretty outrageous to charge the 35p when you are spending that sort of cash!
I’m pretty sure that tests are included now. So I’ll call them tomorrow to double check and then see if pstt can price match. I’m also going to ask them if they offer a discount given I don’t need their CPC training or mod 4 assessment. My suspicion is that they won’t - but it never hurts to ask.
Just remove your green tinted spectacles for a minute and consider this: [ 
]
