I’ve now lost the will to live, will some one be so kind as to shoot me please ? 
raymundo:
I’ve now lost the will to live, will some one be so kind as to shoot me please ?
Trust me if the guvnor had told me that he wanted all the dolly knots on one side only let alone equally on both sides I’d have agreed with you. 
Carryfast:
Bluey Circles:
are you meaning one on either side so as to not to tilt the load by tightening.The only way that you’ll get an unequal pull on either side is if the chain/strap is fouling anywhere between the tensioner side and opposite anchorage point.In which case that’s an insecure load anyway because it will be relatively loose on one side.So it makes no difference if all the tensioners are on one side or not.
Although it’s difficult to understand how roping can be done anything other than the dollies being on alternating sides.Other than with seperate individal lengths of rope on each hook.
As for being able to see loose straps and chains there are plenty of types of load and anchorage points where the securing is all totally invisible anyway being inboard of the sides,front and rear.
Not true boss. As the tension is increased, the traction between the restraint and load - will normally on a canvas strap - be sufficiently strong such that the strap no longer slips at 100 percent over the load before the tension is at limit.
In other words, before you’ve finished tightening up, the strap is already gripping the load sufficiently to pull it in the direction of the tensioner.
Freight Dog:
Carryfast:
Bluey Circles:
are you meaning one on either side so as to not to tilt the load by tightening.The only way that you’ll get an unequal pull on either side is if the chain/strap is fouling anywhere between the tensioner side and opposite anchorage point.In which case that’s an insecure load anyway because it will be relatively loose on one side.So it makes no difference if all the tensioners are on one side or not.
Although it’s difficult to understand how roping can be done anything other than the dollies being on alternating sides.Other than with seperate individal lengths of rope on each hook.
As for being able to see loose straps and chains there are plenty of types of load and anchorage points where the securing is all totally invisible anyway being inboard of the sides,front and rear.
Not true boss. As the tension is increased, the traction between the restraint and load - will normally on a canvas strap - be sufficiently strong such that the strap no longer slips at 100 percent over the load before the tension is at limit.
In other words, before you’ve finished tightening up, the strap is already gripping the load sufficiently to pull it in the direction of the tensioner.
I can understand the idea of coefficient of friction across the load,in some cases,causing a fouling problem in itself.But it’s never,so far,been considered enough of an issue in the real world to require equal tensioning on both sides as common practice.Which would obviously also contradict a supposed DVSA instruction regarding straps being tensioned on the nearside only. 
If we use the simple calculation contained in BSEN 12195-1:2010 for calculating the number of restraints required it takes into account whether the tension is equal on both sides (along with lots of other factors).
As an example - a 2000Kg mass with equal tension (2) on both sides works out as needing 4.6 (rounded up to 5) straps each with 4161Newtons of tension.
If we replace the equal tension with the German standard of 1.8 we need 5.12 straps (rounded up to 6) with at least 3459Newtons of tension
If we reduce to the acknowledged realistic 1.5 (meaning we have half the tension on one side) we need 6.14 (rounded to 7) straps with a minimum of 2965Newtons of tension.
It is accepted that without any particular ‘snagging’ such as Carryfast refers to, webbing straps generally only have half the tension in the opposite side to the tensioner - hence the figure 1.5 is used to multiply the effect the strap tension has on the coefficient of friction between the load and the load bed.
If a driver applies 400Dan of tension on the ratchet side - there is likely to be as little as 200Dan on the other side without any particular snagging. This would mean that with vibration and other forces applied to the load the load will shift slightly and the tension will equal out meaning only 300Dan of tension in total.
To put this into simple terms - I tension the ratchet to ‘FT’ (■■■■■■ tight), by the time I have covered a few miles the strap is now only tight - I lost the ■■■■■■ bit. The idea is to avoid this happening by ensuring equal tension. Alternatively accept that tension is likely to be half on the other side and use more straps to allow for this.
None of this waffle I have typed is anything to do with the ratchet pulling the load to one side - it is purely based on the mathematical calculations that determine how much restraining force we have and what effect that has on the coefficient of friction.
I have a ratchet here that has a tension indicator built in - that means I can pretty much ensure tension is equal before I set off on the road. great idea but expensive. £38 for one ratchet as opposed to £6 for a normal one from a local supplier.
I suppose in the end each driver will have their own way of doing it either by learning from others or using their own logic and common sense admittedly the lack of the latter is where problems arise.
Me I had straps in the drivers side and ratchets in the passenger side, I had a favourite few straps and I had a favourite few ratchets.
Each load has its own pecularities so sometimes ratcheting down on the offside was neccesary as well as some weird and wonderfull techniques to secure individual parts of the load.
Roping using the favoured dolly knot was sometimes used as a secondary securing method.
Hated seeing a strap come slack but it was inevitable, either due to load settling an error on my part or the dreaded breakage which risks leaving a ratchet somewhere on the carriageway although doing motorway site work meant I gained quite a few free ratchets from other drivers.
Packing straps on sharp edges (even if this meant risking life and limb climbing on the load) was usefull to prolong the life of the strap and protect against breakage.
In the end its the drivers responsibility even though its often a battle between health and safety BS and proper safety techniques.
Well ive just managed to bore myself rigid and not in a good way.
shep532:
It is accepted that without any particular ‘snagging’ such as Carryfast refers to, webbing straps generally only have half the tension in the opposite side to the tensioner
If we accept that at face value then ratchet straps can/should realistically usually be used with equal tensioning on both sides which obviously contradicts any supposed DVSA requirement for strap tensioners to all be on the nearside.
While also suggesting a superiority in use of ropes in terms of tension lost just to friction bearing in mind the virtual impossibility of using dollies on both sides.
Having said that,like using ropes,I don’t remember such a significant loss of tension on one side when using straps bearing in mind that as I’ve said I always checked for it and only associated it with fouling wether it was ropes,chains,or straps.Although using straps with equal tensioning on both sides sounds like it’s the way to go in an ideal world.
Carryfast:
shep532:
Carryfast:
The only way that you’ll get an unequal pull on either side is if the chain/strap is fouling anywhere between the tensioner side and opposite anchorage pointThe BSEN 12195-1 standard acknowledges that in most cases with over strapping there will be a loss of tension of up to half between the ratchet side and the other side.
The German standard VDI 2700 tells us the maximum tension on the side opposite the ratchet will be 0.8 of that on the ratchet side so it seems to be accepted that equal tension side to side will be difficult to obtain which will effectively reduce the efficiency of the straps in supplying sufficient downward force to secure the load effectively. This in turn causes ‘settling’ of the straps and a loss of tension.
Placing a ratchet on each side on the same webbing is acknowledged as an effective manner of helping achieving equal tension on both sides.
Make their minds up it’s either 0.2 loss or 0.5.If it’s right it would obviously mean equal/double amounts of strap/chain tensioners or dollies on both sides having been common practice long before now.
have you ever actually used straps?
if you read it, it’s nothing to do with making up their minds. one is saying the maximum achievable the other is saying what is normally achievable.
stevieboy308:
have you ever actually used straps?
Have you actually read my posts.
Carryfast:
stevieboy308:
have you ever actually used straps?Have you actually read my posts.
not all of them.
now how’s about you answering my question?
right, i’ve read them all, so have you actually ever used straps?
stevieboy308:
right, i’ve read them all, so have you actually ever used straps?
‘If’ you’d have read my posts you’d have seen that I’ve used straps but more often chains and/or ropes.The relevant bit being that in all cases there is no rule which says that dollies,chain tensioners,or strap ratchet tensioners have to all be on the nearside. 
I think the whole point of placing ratchets on the nearside is for safety if you are going to be undoing them on a roadside.
This makes perfect sense if the load can be secured properly this way and some loads definitely can.
If a load cannot be secured by doing this then secure it as necessary and try not undo them by the roadside.
Quite simple really eh.
albion1971:
I think the whole point of placing ratchets on the nearside is for safety if you are going to be undoing them on a roadside.
This makes perfect sense if the load can be secured properly this way and some loads definitely can.
If a load cannot be secured by doing this then secure it as necessary and try not undo them by the roadside.
Quite simple really eh.
Yup 
Apart from which there isn’t any guidance or rule or law or legislation to tell us ratchets should all be on the nearside which is the point carryfast was making in the first place
shep532:
albion1971:
I think the whole point of placing ratchets on the nearside is for safety if you are going to be undoing them on a roadside.
This makes perfect sense if the load can be secured properly this way and some loads definitely can.
If a load cannot be secured by doing this then secure it as necessary and try not undo them by the roadside.
Quite simple really eh.Yup
Apart from which there isn’t any guidance or rule or law or legislation to tell us ratchets should all be on the nearside which is the point carryfast was making in the first place
I did not think I said there was. Sorry but I tend to skip through the posts that go off on a tangent. The whole point behind putting a ratchet at the nearside is for safety(in certain situations) and that is why it was mentioned I would think but as usual there is big hoo hah about nothing.
albion1971:
I did not think I said there was. Sorry but I tend to skip through the posts that go off on a tangent. The whole point behind putting a ratchet at the nearside is for safety(in certain situations) and that is why it was mentioned I would think but as usual there is big hoo hah about nothing.
Sorry - I didn’t mean it to sound that way. You didn’t say there was.
I meant the ‘yup’ to say yes I agree with you 100% and the next sentence to be a general statement backing up what has already been said throughout the post and kindda meaning the whole 3 pages of posts were pointless as they are about nonsense
shep532:
the whole 3 pages of posts were pointless as they are about nonsense
But my insomnia is cured!
shep532:
albion1971:
I did not think I said there was. Sorry but I tend to skip through the posts that go off on a tangent. The whole point behind putting a ratchet at the nearside is for safety(in certain situations) and that is why it was mentioned I would think but as usual there is big hoo hah about nothing.Sorry - I didn’t mean it to sound that way. You didn’t say there was.
I meant the ‘yup’ to say yes I agree with you 100% and the next sentence to be a general statement backing up what has already been said throughout the post and kindda meaning the whole 3 pages of posts were pointless as they are about nonsense
ok no problem I understand.