Simple answer…
Once is unfortunate, a couple of times is poor management, next time you head back home earlier to make sure you get back.
The more it happens the more the boss expects it.
How complicated does this need to get?
Yes GB Domestic rules limit driving to 10 hours a day but that is for goods vehicles doing a goods vehicle job. In this case the driver/s are using the vehicle as a means of personal transport. They are not delivering/collecting goods and are working under EU Rules which allows the driving of a non Tacho vehicle to be recorded as work.
It would have been different if they’d been asked to carry out deliveries on their way back.
The drivers must obviously record the journey time. Whoever was driving records it as work. Whoever was passenger can record work or POA. Neither can record rest or break.
That’s how I’d look at it if I was the TM. Yes DVSA say that on a day when mixed EU and GB rules activities are carried out you must obey BOTH sets of rules but surely they mean when delivering/collecting/working. I am also sure something somewhere lets us choose to work solely under EU Rules - which means we take breaks whereas under GB rules we don’t have to.
HOWEVER - ROG has given the best option. A car instead of a van. All this “it’s a company vehicle” makes no odds at all.
shep532:
How complicated does this need to get?Yes GB Domestic rules limit driving to 10 hours a day but that is for goods vehicles doing a goods vehicle job. In this case the driver/s are using the vehicle as a means of personal transport. They are not delivering/collecting goods and are working under EU Rules which allows the driving of a non Tacho vehicle to be recorded as work.
It would have been different if they’d been asked to carry out deliveries on their way back.
The drivers must obviously record the journey time. Whoever was driving records it as work. Whoever was passenger can record work or POA. Neither can record rest or break.
That’s how I’d look at it if I was the TM. Yes DVSA say that on a day when mixed EU and GB rules activities are carried out you must obey BOTH sets of rules but surely they mean when delivering/collecting/working. I am also sure something somewhere lets us choose to work solely under EU Rules - which means we take breaks whereas under GB rules we don’t have to.
HOWEVER - ROG has given the best option. A car instead of a van. All this “it’s a company vehicle” makes no odds at all.
the problem is the regulation do not differentiate between a company vehicle or a private vehicle when traveling to or from a vehicle that is neither at the operating centre or the drivers home.
Where a vehicle coming within the scope of the EU rules is neither at the driver’s home nor at the employer’s operational centre where the driver is normally based, but is at a separate location, time spent travelling to or from that location to take charge of the vehicle may not be counted as a rest or break, unless the driver is in a ferry or train and has access to a bunk or couchette
Get the gaffer to buy a motorhome …So when you are picked up by another driver you can get in bed and rest whilst he drives you home. Paid to sleep !
And then he can “lend it to drivers for holiday” too !
Sorry but it was the best I could do after a few pints and nigh on a bottle of red !
wildfire:
Where a vehicle coming within the scope of the EU rules is neither at the driver’s home nor at the employer’s operational centre where the driver is normally based, but is at a separate location, time spent travelling to or from that location to take charge of the vehicle may not be counted as a rest or break, unless the driver is in a ferry or train and has access to a bunk or couchette
That isn’t what was being questioned though. The drivers were out of driving time but had duty remaining - therefore they could record the journey as work or POA.
shep532:
wildfire:
Where a vehicle coming within the scope of the EU rules is neither at the driver’s home nor at the employer’s operational centre where the driver is normally based, but is at a separate location, time spent travelling to or from that location to take charge of the vehicle may not be counted as a rest or break, unless the driver is in a ferry or train and has access to a bunk or couchetteThat isn’t what was being questioned though. The drivers were out of driving time but had duty remaining - therefore they could record the journey as work or POA.
Or break.
All this should do this ,don’t do that, it’s illegal blah,blah, blah, In the past i have run out of hours,at around 90mins from the yard, And it was for my benefit that i got home, not just the companies, because A they would not of paid parking, (why should i?) and i needed to get home,after weeks away,
They would send out a driver in a van, we would swap vehicles , must admit domestic hours in a 3.5t van my ex boss would say don’t slam the door on yer way out, if you tried that one
Sometimes we would be told to drive the vehicle to a different depot, and drive a van back to our yard, it was either that or stay out for the weekend with next to no facilities , and it would be the reverse after we had had our weekly rest (starting from when we got to our normal depot) We didn’t like the driving or being driven 3.5hrs from normal depot to the depot where the vehicles where left,and be expected not to record this, But sometimes a job is a job even though it is a means to an end
Need to clarify,duty hours or driving time
I just leave my car keys at the yard and the boss drives it to me and I drive my own vehicle home.
Legal and simple.
joe royal:
I just leave my car keys at the yard and the boss drives it to me and I drive my own vehicle home.Legal and simple.
Only legal if you have enough “duty time” remaining, for the reasons stated in the earlier posts.
joe royal:
I just leave my car keys at the yard and the boss drives it to me and I drive my own vehicle home.Legal and simple.
I do hope he re-imburses you for the extra fuel if it’s needed. If he doesn’t, then it’s you that’s the mug, legal or not.
Roymondo:
joe royal:
I just leave my car keys at the yard and the boss drives it to me and I drive my own vehicle home.Legal and simple.
Only legal if you have enough “duty time” remaining, for the reasons stated in the earlier posts.
If that was the case how would you get home,after returning the lorry back to base? That i think isn’t illegal at all, otherwise no one would be getting home at the end of their shift ,
As for using your own vehicle, i can recall arguing that after driving/being carried in a company vehicle for +3hrs from normal base to another depot to then start a double manned shift without creating a manual entry for that time spent travelling , Boss man said fine go in your own car then, he did offer to pay for the fuel though, as that doesn’t count because it’s not a company vehicle, With companies like that and there are quite a few out there, nothing illegal about that though
tommy t:
Roymondo:
joe royal:
I just leave my car keys at the yard and the boss drives it to me and I drive my own vehicle home.Legal and simple.
Only legal if you have enough “duty time” remaining, for the reasons stated in the earlier posts.
If that was the case how would you get home,after returning the lorry back to base? That i think isn’t illegal at all, otherwise no one would be getting home at the end of their shift ,
As for using your own vehicle, i can recall arguing that after driving/being carried in a company vehicle for +3hrs from normal base to another depot to then start a double manned shift without creating a manual entry for that time spent travelling , Boss man said fine go in your own car then, he did offer to pay for the fuel though, as that doesn’t count because it’s not a company vehicle, With companies like that and there are quite a few out there, nothing illegal about that though
Roymondo is absolutely right, legally any time travelling to a vehicle that’s not at the drivers home or usual operating centre, or returning from such a vehicle, cannot be counted as rest or break, therefore the travelling time you describe in both the situations you’ve mentioned should be recorded as other work, not that anyone is likely to know if you don’t 
However travelling home from your usual place of work after work doesn’t count as travelling time and never has.
tommy t:
If that was the case how would you get home,after returning the lorry back to base? That i think isn’t illegal at all, otherwise no one would be getting home at the end of their shift ,
As for using your own vehicle, i can recall arguing that after driving/being carried in a company vehicle for +3hrs from normal base to another depot to then start a double manned shift without creating a manual entry for that time spent travelling , Boss man said fine go in your own car then, he did offer to pay for the fuel though, as that doesn’t count because it’s not a company vehicle, With companies like that and there are quite a few out there, nothing illegal about that though
Commuting to the location you are normally based at isn’t work, but travelling to any other location to start driving or to return to base is working time, whether it is in your own vehicle or not.
To quote the official guidance:
Where a vehicle coming within the scope of the EU rules is neither at the driver’s home nor at the employer’s operational centre where the driver is normally based, but is at a separate location, time spent travelling to or from that location to take charge of the vehicle may not be counted as a rest or break, unless the driver is in a ferry or train and has access to a bunk or couchette.