The biggest problem with unions is the members.
Drivers moan and groan in the canteen, but do nothing about anything.
am a bit young for this but no doubt some of the older members on here will enlighten me but didn’t truckers strike in the 70’s nationally?
What is it with this constant whingeing about being stopped 45 minutes a day? In just about every other occupation you are stopped 1/2 hr, 45 mins or an hour for a lunch break. I will accept that most other jobs allow a paid 10 minute tea break and some allow 2 such tea breaks so nominally drivers are slightly worse off, but there is no-one physically breathing down your neck all day, which there is likely to be elsewhere. However not being paid for some of a second 45 minute break taken to 1) comply with the law and 2) get the vehicle and load nearer to its destination for the benefit of the company is a different matter.
Our union has a local agreement that states,any internal positions will go to the longest serving member of staff regardless of appraisals,time keeping,absence. I asked if 2 candidates go for a position, one perfect employee other far from perfect but one more days service he gets the job? got told yes that correct. Madness
war1974:
unions worked well for royal mail/shipbuilding/coal/steel/car industry.all of them on much better terms now
ROFL! [emoji23]
rambo19:
The biggest problem with unions is the members.Drivers moan and groan in the canteen, but do nothing about anything.
Exactamundo!
Juddian:
Put it this way, i aint swapping my negotiated proper terms and conditions for the race to the bottom bare minimum being enjoyed by the other sort who are too stubborn to see.
Unionised myth, and a grade A one at that.
Care to evidence your statement?
Care to explain what you mean by “proper terms and conditions”? Are the rest of us missing out on something fella, or are you suggesting that anybody in the UK who has a contract that is non union negotiated is at the bottom of the pile. Brain washed horse manure son.
Thanks though for giving me one paragraph that nicely sums up the problem with unions in the modern era, self deluded, self important and selfish.
Good luck with the next round of “negotiations” fella, just remember brother, the top will always be looking out for the bottom mate, just do as you’re told like a good boy.
I think I’ll risk it with my dodgy, bottom of the barrel, just scraping by package. Good job it’s not a legally binding contract of employment eh? I’m sure the terms and conditions are not valid either.
Good luck to that other chap with his PDU union thing, a great list of aims and I hope they all work out, of course they all mean jack while we have the EU dictating employment law but hey ho, at least there will be a well paid leadership with an AGM with refreshments while you all vote on things you actually have no final say over. Let’s face it, I’m sure there is a shortage of desperate eastern European drivers waiting to drive over here…oh wait…
Norfolkinclue1:
Juddian:
Put it this way, i aint swapping my negotiated proper terms and conditions for the race to the bottom bare minimum being enjoyed by the other sort who are too stubborn to see.Unionised myth, and a grade A one at that.
Care to evidence your statement?
Care to explain what you mean by “proper terms and conditions”? Are the rest of us missing out on something fella, or are you suggesting that anybody in the UK who has a contract that is non union negotiated is at the bottom of the pile. Brain washed horse manure son.
Thanks though for giving me one paragraph that nicely sums up the problem with unions in the modern era, self deluded, self important and selfish.
Good luck with the next round of “negotiations” fella, just remember brother, the top will always be looking out for the bottom mate, just do as you’re told like a good boy.
I think I’ll risk it with my dodgy, bottom of the barrel, just scraping by package. Good job it’s not a legally binding contract of employment eh? I’m sure the terms and conditions are not valid either.
Good luck to that other chap with his PDU union thing, a great list of aims and I hope they all work out, of course they all mean jack while we have the EU dictating employment law but hey ho, at least there will be a well paid leadership with an AGM with refreshments while you all vote on things you actually have no final say over. Let’s face it, I’m sure there is a shortage of desperate eastern European drivers waiting to drive over here…oh wait…
I’l leave Judian to argue with you mate, but if you get paid hols every year, sick pay (however low/much) they are some of the Ts & Cs negotiated and won by a Union. You can’t change history just to suit your argument. Those better conditions were won in the days when workers stood up to middle and higher class managers and owners after standing against being treat like crap and kept in their place.
If you read a lot of complaints on this forum it looks as if a lot are heading back that way. Trade Unions have a lot of work to do to regain trust and confidence and I’m not sure if they can. Where that will leave us I do not know.
I think a large reason for some jobs going backwards and becoming draconian, is due to the influx of migrant labour. They can afford to work longer hours for less money, because they send a lot home, and split the household bills you and I pay with 1 or 2 wages, up to 8 ways depending on how many share that house. And just like turkeys don’t vote for Christmas, they won’t join a union, because they know that would put them at the back of the queue
OVLOV JAY:
I think a large reason for some jobs going backwards and becoming draconian, is due to the influx of migrant labour. They can afford to work longer hours for less money, because they send a lot home, and split the household bills you and I pay with 1 or 2 wages, up to 8 ways depending on how many share that house. And just like turkeys don’t vote for Christmas, they won’t join a union, because they know that would put them at the back of the queue
Arguably part of the problem now, but I think the rot started to set in before that. A lot of redundancies and bankruptcies went on in the late 80s during and after the recession so drivers were taking on jobs that they previously would not have and employers jumped on this to their own advantage with … the old ‘If you don’ t like it ■■■■ off’ and so it escalated downward to the quality of the job declined.
That’s just supply and demand. The market place dictates the going rate. Why would a millionaire pay double for a house, just because he can afford it? He wouldn’t, he’d pay the going rate like anyone else. The going rate was okay in 2003, I was getting £650 a week tramping on general, then the eastern block opened up and the rest as they say, is history
Supply and demand maybe, but in the situation like that where drivers were being exploited surely you can not argue that a union (not necessarilly Trade Union) would be more beneficial. That is how and why they originated in the first place.
Don’t get me wrong I am neither a spokesman, apologist, or strong supporter of Trade Unions, I just think the concept is not all bad.
Beneficial, in an ideal world yes, but it’s not an ideal world. Whilst the union members working at tesco and sainsburys enjoyed their position, the companies started running 50/50 permanent and agency work forces to enjoy the cheaper labour. Some companies enjoyed a start up boom and only did so by employing migrants, and there is a degree of pulling up the drawbridge with unions, look at the last tanker driver strikes. They did a deal to protect themselves at the expense of any future new starters, and will no doubt expect those same new faces to join the ranks. Like I said, I’m not anti union if it’s already in place, I just don’t buy into the notion that they’re the be all and end all
Big Truck:
Thruxton:
Drivers Union? Worth joining or not? Which Union? Advice Please…This question has been asked before.
I’m in Unite and there are some “add-ons” in the union subs for drivers ref accident/sick insurance etc.
They backed me to the hilt ref a dispute over breach of TUPE regs against Grafton Agency and Tesco couple of yrs ago.
After a complaint was lodged with the Industrial Tribunal and after the 1st case management “pow-wow” Grafton offered £3500 to settle
They are DIRT cheap for the likes of house insurance etc.
For £3.30per week subs as a HGV driver its a no brainer for
employment law protection alone.
iwas on for Shell when Emo oils took over i was on long term sick(heart attack) all the time on was on Shells books it was ok as soon as Emo took over they wanted to sack me with 2 weeks pay.They didnt know i was in the union as i paid it out of my bank not P.A.Y.E so i called the union they sent a man down i got all i was entitled to i am still in the union although i have had my own business for the last 8 years so in my opion yes they are a good thing
It was on 5 live this morning that many office workers are afraid to take their tea break that they are fully entitled to in case they are thought to be slacking by their bosses 
…ffs it seems that it aint only drivers that have a lot of wimps.
Tea breaks from work, another benefit fought for by our Grandfathers in Trade Unions just handed back .or chucked away. Ok it aint all that crucial but it is the thin end of the wedge to going back to the ■■■■■■ 19th century.
I wonder Rob how many of them ’ hide ’ behind that excuse? Lots of these office characters seem to be workaholics.
robroy:
Supply and demand maybe, but in the situation like that where drivers were being exploited surely you can not argue that a union (not necessarilly Trade Union) would be more beneficial. That is how and why they originated in the first place.
Don’t get me wrong I am neither a spokesman, apologist, or strong supporter of Trade Unions, I just think the concept is not all bad.
Rob, mate, I would never ignore what the unions did at a time when they were needed, or would I ignore what they helped put in place.
However that’s my point in all of this, in the modern work place, in my opinion, they are defunct. They rely on bullying and scaremongering to extract money from hard working people by promising a world they will never deliver.
Take the posts from this new union guy in this topic, all about UK drivers but ignoring the overriding factors of European employment law and European migratory rights. Don’t get me wrong, this is in no way whatsoever a far right racist rant, you just have to accept and appreciate that people from countries with a far lower standard of living and monthly wage can just literally walk in to the uk and work for whatever they like so long as it meets the minimum wage. That’s not exploitation, that’s common sense for migrant workers.
I challenge any union member or rep on here to tell me exactly how they plan, as a union of workers, to bypass this system in order to, as they claim, improve working conditions and wages for UK drivers.
The bottom line for me is that my experiences of unions ( aside from being an 11 year old in the early eighties in Yorkshire) are that they want monthly payments from hard working people to support themselves and use fear, segregation and misinformation to get it.
Sorry to bang on, I am not angry or shouty, however when union members come on here to suggest that you and your job are more at risk if you are non union then I will have my say as they are lying and morally corrupt.
I found the TGWU pretty good,they paid my legal fee when they sent me to a solicitor and the company I worked for decided I had to use theirs over a court appearance over an accident ,that was nearly £500 pounds
Norfolkinclue1:
robroy:
Supply and demand maybe, but in the situation like that where drivers were being exploited surely you can not argue that a union (not necessarilly Trade Union) would be more beneficial. That is how and why they originated in the first place.
Don’t get me wrong I am neither a spokesman, apologist, or strong supporter of Trade Unions, I just think the concept is not all bad.Rob, mate, I would never ignore what the unions did at a time when they were needed, or would I ignore what they helped put in place.
However that’s my point in all of this, in the modern work place, in my opinion, they are defunct. They rely on bullying and scaremongering to extract money from hard working people by promising a world they will never deliver.
Take the posts from this new union guy in this topic, all about UK drivers but ignoring the overriding factors of European employment law and European migratory rights. Don’t get me wrong, this is in no way whatsoever a far right racist rant, you just have to accept and appreciate that people from countries with a far lower standard of living and monthly wage can just literally walk in to the uk and work for whatever they like so long as it meets the minimum wage. That’s not exploitation, that’s common sense for migrant workers.
I challenge any union member or rep on here to tell me exactly how they plan, as a union of workers, to bypass this system in order to, as they claim, improve working conditions and wages for UK drivers.
The bottom line for me is that my experiences of unions ( aside from being an 11 year old in the early eighties in Yorkshire) are that they want monthly payments from hard working people to support themselves and use fear, segregation and misinformation to get it.
Sorry to bang on, I am not angry or shouty, however when union members come on here to suggest that you and your job are more at risk if you are non union then I will have my say as they are lying and morally corrupt.
A lot of what you say is right and I can’t argue with it. Although I dont agree that T Us today sole purpose is to rip off drivers, they are like MPs, the majority are arse holes but there are still a lot in it for the right reasons, and as I said before they are gonna have to do a hell of a lot to even start to regain credibility after the 70s/80s thing.
You are right taking on the EU is a non starter, but showing no resistance or at least displeasure for that alone, will only encourage a lot of employers to feed us even more ■■■■ in other aspects of the job, safe in the knowledge that no constructive resistance will be shown.
Christ I even sound like a bloody Commie leftie to myself , but really I aint, I just like to at least try and keep things fair, and I still say an element of ‘union’ between drivers in their firms is the best way.