Will the next step be driving their vehicle on your own vehicle insurance??
truckerjon:
I think it’s a cracking idea! we should extend it to all industries, for example, if a banker “accidentily” loses the company £25 billion, he should be made to pay it back out of his bonus, if a chief executive of the company “accidentliy” causes the company to collapse, the cost should be deducted from his final salery pension, and if a secretary “accidentily” spills a cup of coffee onto her laptop, she should be hung drawn and quartered!
When talking to an office bod about an incident, a friend of mine turned round and said, do you have tipex on your desk? Office bod said yes, so he said You must make mistakes too then? Just yours are easier to cover with tipex.
Soo bloody true.
Saratoga:
I am not sure of the law but in most cases, if you don’t sign the updated contract you effectively quit.However, saying that, when a new chap took over at the agency 6 months ago they sent out a revised contract for me to sign
which is still sitting next to my gas statement, undealt with…
There are a few agencies I have tried with that clause but stating the first £200 of any incident is deemed my fault and the money will be taken from my wages.
I signed up for the agency, as I didn’t know any different at the time but was still waiting for my licence to be sent back, and when that happened I just didn’t tell them…
Because, afterall, that is what vehicle insurance is for? If I had to work for a company with that clause in they’d probably regret it as I’d drive everywhere really carefully and, unfortunately, not fast enough for them… Not out of malice but not wanting to damage anything, because I can’t afford anything like that.
If you did a weeks work on artics, then had an incident, who pays your mortgage and food that week? Exactly!
So, Robroy. Have they given you the new contract and an ultimatum? What do the other drivers think? Have you spoken to them about it? Have you voiced your displeasure to your company?
When I “sign up” for any work from firms or agencies, they are given a copy of my Ts & Cs.
included (buried) in the small print is the paragraph
- Whilst every effort is made by Joe bloggs transport to give satisfaction to the Client by ensuring reasonable standard of skills, integrity and reliability from Temporary Worker’s and further to provide them in accordance with the Client’s booking details, the client and subsequently their client (the hauler) who the temporary worker is engaged for employment shall be liable for all motor, goods in transit, and public liability insurance, and any other legally required insurances or bonds that is required that are required for the temporary worker to undertake their duties as part of the engagement. Joe bloggs transport is not liable for any loss, expense, damage or delay arising from any failure to provide any Temporary Worker for all or part of the period of booking or from the negligence, dishonesty, misconduct or lack of skill of the Temporary Worker.
Also included in my Ts & Cs is the get out clause:
- These Terms and Conditions are deemed to be accepted by the Client by virtue of an interview of the engagement by the Client (which term includes employment or use whether agency, licensee, franchise or partnership agreement) of a temporary driver (hereinafter called a ‘TEMPORARY WORKER’) introduced by Joe bloggs transport and shall supersede all other terms and conditions as notified by other clients, haulers and operator’s.
Also the T
s & Cs will have been deemed to be accepted by the Client as soon as they are given a copy of the Ts & Cs by a member of Joe bloggs transport staff
Saratoga:
I am not sure of the law but in most cases, if you don’t sign the updated contract you effectively quit.However, saying that, when a new chap took over at the agency 6 months ago they sent out a revised contract for me to sign
There are a few agencies I have tried with that clause but stating the first £200 of any incident is deemed my fault and the money will be taken from my wages.
I signed up for the agency, as I didn’t know any different at the time but was still waiting for my licence to be sent back, and when that happened I just didn’t tell them…
Because, afterall, that is what vehicle insurance is for? If I had to work for a company with that clause in they’d probably regret it as I’d drive everywhere really carefully and, unfortunately, not fast enough for them… Not out of malice but not wanting to damage anything, because I can’t afford anything like that.
If you did a weeks work on artics, then had an incident, who pays your mortgage and food that week? Exactly!
So, Robroy. Have they given you the new contract and an ultimatum? What do the other drivers think? Have you spoken to them about it? Have you voiced your displeasure to your company?
when my drivers wanted a new contract, we worded it very carefully, as there are certain things than can and cannot be put into the contract
the other interesting thing i was told by ACAS was, if i hand the contract to the employee, and they don’t sign it for whatever reason, if the employee carries on working for me, they have in effect agreed to the terms of the contract
so, it doesn’t matter if you sign the contract or not, if you stay working there after it has been given to you, you have still accepted it
Davnic:
IMO the only reason a company would do this is to reduce their insurance premium by getting the drivers to pay an ‘excess’ rather than foot it themselves.
There’s no way i’d sign up to anything like this.
We all try to be as careful as we can but accidents/mistakes happen because we’re all human and companies must be prepared to carry this risk.If you’re going tp pay for your damage/mishaps,you may aswell become an OD and take the profits from the good times too.
it won’t reduce their insurance premiums, it will however reduce the amount that the company have to pay out on excess payments 
Winseer:
If someone tried to pull that stroke with me, I’d report them for running an O licence without sufficient insurance!
Any part of motor insurance not covered because of any excess would normally be covered by liability insurance, which is dirt cheap even nowdays. A firm would have to be very mickey mouse indeed if they don’t have enough of THAT kind of cover! I wouldn’t want to be one of their customers, let alone working for them!
If it’s just a ruse to get people to resign, rather than a firm having to pay out redundancy, then the best approach is to go sick long term, and at least you’ve milked them for something towards your missing redundancy package.
When it comes down to it, I’m not sure that big fleet operators even USE motor insurance in the normal sense. It’s all liability insurance, which means they effectively underwrite the (RTA damages) risk themselves in-house. Anyone care to correct me if I’m wrong here?
If a firm were really worried about driver damage costs, then they only need to advertise for “clean licence only” rather than “6 points OK” like most ads are these days!
“6 points OK” says “We want minimum wage slaves, and don’t care about the knocks let alone the liabilities!”
just to point out a small fact, one has got nothing to do with the other
O Licence is a VOSA issue, insurance is a police issue
commonrail:
if they take money out of my wages i will rip them for every penny i can get untill they sack me
and possibly arrested and charged with theft
newtruckersdad:
Hi All
We are on the recieving end of one of these contracts at the minuteThe firm
sonny jim`` worked for until recently are witholding wages owed and trying to claim for two minor incidents,bent pub sign and a crease in corsa vans rear doors[illegally parked!!].The contract has a clause in it about
recovering costs due to employee negligencebut the legal eagles reckon any deductions have to be agreed and signed for by both parties before any deductions can be made no matter what the contract says.Its ongoing at the minute and the decsion to take to small claims court will be made within 14days unless he`s paid up this coming week.
He signed the contract in haste,it being his first full time job in transport[6 months on agency previous]…thinking the pro
s outweighed the cons…a lesson learnt here and one for thenewbiesto look out for!!!Has anybody else had a similar experience and what was the outcome■■?
All words of wisdom appreciated!!!
so, if it is written in the contract that the company can deduct monies for accidents or whatever, and the employee has signed the contract, he has then given the company written permission to deduct the money, as they have both technically signed the consent form
the long and short of it is, if the company gives you a contract and you don’t sign it, it doesn’t mean that they can’t enforce the contract, if you don’t like the contract, talk to the company, if they won’t budge on the terms, your only courses of action are either accept it or leave the company
hope this helps
wavyok:
Will the next step be driving their vehicle on your own vehicle insurance??
i believe a haulage company with green wagons are toying with this idea as we type, other ideas of said haulier is that you pay your own wages and also the wages of their second driver, pay the costs of maintaining their wagon and you apparently have to place a large cash deposit into their coffers in order to secure a job 
green456:
wavyok:
Will the next step be driving their vehicle on your own vehicle insurance??i believe a haulage company with green wagons are toying with this idea as we type, other ideas of said haulier is that you pay your own wages and also the wages of their second driver, pay the costs of maintaining their wagon and you apparently have to place a large cash deposit into their coffers in order to secure a job
yes, but what you have failed to mention is, they will pay you quite a considerately more money per week than if you didn’t take up the idea
oh, can can we please keep this thread away from that company
Silver_Surfer:
A no accident bonus is the only way to go in this situation, I mean it is in effect a bond for good careful behaviour but it is the only way you can introduce anything like this without the driver getting upset and feeling hard done by. Of course it would be nice to know that this bonus was on top of the basic wage but it probably comes out of the wage they would pay anyway, this is the nice way of doing it.All this saying you have to pay our insurance excess if you have an accident is extremely Micky Mouse in my opinion and this is coming from someone who has only ever run a few trucks adn wouldn’t dream of making drivers do this.
Bottom line is, if a driver is particulary accident prone, he gets the boot. Only way in my book something like 3 strikes and you’re out I think is fair enough, depending on how big the strikes are of course.
If I was paid bonuses for a spotless accident record, I’d be retired now instead of bumming my way around agencies!
i think it’s a good idea.
why employ dicks that have accidents?
limeyphil:
i think it’s a good idea.
why employ dicks that have accidents?
I think the point is, the company gets rid of the crap drivers, rather than penalising everyone for the mistakes of a few.
One “good trick” I have fallen victim to as an agency driver is - blame the agency man! I did some work for a firm where their drivers were charged for any damage, even if it was an agency man driving and they were second man. Lo and behold when something happened it was all the agency guys fault and the employed driver had done everything to avoid the incident. So, agency guy loses his job, employed man doesn’t get a deduction…
Winseer:
If someone tried to pull that stroke with me, I’d report them for running an O licence without sufficient insurance!
I imagine VOSA will eventually break into a smile. The only insurance that you need to be be on the road is 3rd party, you do not even need fire or theft cover.
It takes a stupid thief to steal a burning truck.
Some of the larger companies do not even have insurance cover, they just pay a cash bond into the high court
BanburyDan:
limeyphil:
i think it’s a good idea.
why employ dicks that have accidents?I think the point is, the company gets rid of the crap drivers, rather than penalising everyone for the mistakes of a few.
One “good trick” I have fallen victim to as an agency driver is - blame the agency man! I did some work for a firm where their drivers were charged for any damage, even if it was an agency man driving and they were second man. Lo and behold when something happened it was all the agency guys fault and the employed driver had done everything to avoid the incident. So, agency guy loses his job, employed man doesn’t get a deduction…
I think this is the other potential problem, people hiding damage or not reporting it because they’re scared of losing wages.
Also, hit and runs will increase. As will ‘spare number plates’
wavyok:
Will the next step be driving their vehicle on your own vehicle insurance??
of course it will,then they will get you buying your fuel or there no work so go home.Daft thing is someone will
Thanks all for the feedback, even if some of it wasn’t what I needed to hear. If what Shuttle says IS true it won’t make a difference if it is signed or not. It now seems that drivers have to agree to any old sh that is dished out to them no matter how unfair it may be. A trend now with the type of firms such as my present one, who only see drivers as a necessary evil, is to use the job shortage situation to their full advantage, I fully realise that this is the real world today etc etc, but do these firms not see that to ■■■■ a driver off only results in him seeing the co as a “them and us”, rather than a team which in the long run would benefit both parties.
And thanks Limeyphil for your constructive input , the term you use ie" Dicks who have accidents" may come back to bite you on the arse one day if you are ever unfortunate to have one , and if you are implying that I am in that category, you are way off, but thanks again anyway
robroy:
Thanks all for the feedback, even if some of it wasn’t what I needed to hear. If what Shuttle says IS true it won’t make a difference if it is signed or not. It now seems that drivers have to agree to any old sh that is dished out to them no matter how unfair it may be. A trend now with the type of firms such as my present one, who only see drivers as a necessary evil, is to use the job shortage situation to their full advantage, I fully realise that this is the real world today etc etc, but do these firms not see that to ■■■■ a driver off only results in him seeing the co as a “them and us”, rather than a team which in the long run would benefit both parties.
And thanks Limeyphil for your constructive input
Yes I think a few companies have been using the so-called recession/decline (personally I think such things are engineered) to their full advantage. Most contracts now are no sick pay, minimal holiday allowance, and all kinds of stupid things in there. Don’t forget you still can’t consent to something that is illegal, your employer has to abide by some standards even if it is increasingly few. I think its sad that the older generation went on strike/took action to get a decent standard of living out of employers and now its all being eroded by various means.
As far as I can see the fact that the company want to charge you for insurance excess in the new contract is almost irrelevant, what’s relevant is who agreed to a new contract of employment ?
A contract is binding on both parties and cannot simply be changed because the employer feels like it.
Presumably someone somewhere must have agreed to the new contract otherwise it’s not legal.
There is a term called ‘unfair contract’ which means the contract would be invalid if it wasn’t fair to the employee. No idea what the exact criteria is though.
Cross out the offending clause on both contracts, initial it and send it back. They probably won’t even look at it.
mrpj:
There is a term called ‘unfair contract’ which means the contract would be invalid if it wasn’t fair to the employee. No idea what the exact criteria is though.
that can be used, but it is a difficult one. it’s one of those situations that relys on the mood of the judge on the day, the law dosn’t really come into it.
but one important issue with this is for those that have LTD companies doing the freelance/agency type thing that seems to be very popular.
a contract between a LTD company to another LTD company is prety much a solid thing, not many ifs or buts.
a contract between a LTD company to an individual is very different.
ok , i will tell you a story , a company i worked for in mid eighties tried this on…(mostly due imo to mirrors etc being whacked on ferries,tailights stolen).we all got the contracts ,some signed ,some didnt…iwas called in when passing and told sign or else.so i said do what ya want its not enforcable,
the boss told me to get back to work and it was not brought up again.
when i left a while later i can 100% say nothing was taken off my pay (even though i had a broken headlight ,pheasant stike).jimmy.
Saratoga:
Glen, that sounds like a better idea
no it doesn’t
stevie