bikemonkey:
exactly…at least someone is thinking of plausable alternatives to the watching a DVD,falling asleep,knitting a jumper scenario.
we can all judge from what we read in a TOTALLY one sided,BIASED media…he may well be totally guilty as charged…but really THIS is just pure SPECULATION as we’ll never know what actually happened.
an innocent family was killed and that will always sway a jury in one direction,whether the deceased was at fault or the FOREIGN driver of a 44 tonne wagon…somehow i think i know how its gonna end.
Where’s the upvote button?
You’d think with the internet, people would have learned to question the media a lot more now, but if anything I think people are happier than ever to go along what the Sun/Mail/BBC tell them.
(OT) Perfect example of media bias this week - did we all see the story connecting cannabis to testicular cancer? Did anyone see the story about THC reducing the size (50% reduction) and spread (60% reduction) of lung cancer tumors? One was based on a study of 1300 people, asking if they’d smoked, the other was based on lab tests. Guess which one hasn’t made it into the mainstream media? (/OT)
I don’t think there’s a lot of doubt as to his guilt - at the end of the day, he ran into the back of someone, that’s open and shut in all but the rarest situations - but the media will only tell you the bits that sell papers and fit their ideals. Why let facts get in the way of a good story?
one passed me on the m6 last night,watching his dvd, plain to see set up in his cab, seen him before, has like a cartoon of the road runner on the side of his trailer, these guys do’nt seen bothered at all.
now now pecjam23, don’t you be putting an alternative cause of the accident up
he’s foreign therefore he caused it
there was a laptop in his cab, therefore he must have been using it
it was stated at the time of the accident that the car had overtook him, pulled back in and then crashed into the lorry in front giving him no chance to stop, mind you she was british, theres no chance she could’ve been distracted by the four kids in the back.
the press and the idiots that hang on their every word have got a rear end shunt and a foreigner, they dont need anything else.
sam mill:
get him lock up i
he has killed a family
MADBAZ:
I hope they lock the [zb] up and throw away the key!
This isn’t manslaughter, death by dangerous, gross negligence, careless driving or any other spin its mass murder, pure and simple, and should be dealt with as such.
and thats just two examples
Mike-C:
There was three lorrys involved in that pile up. One jacknifed into the central reservation and another burst into flames. Maybe they where all watching the same laptop?
is it just me?
that seems a hell of a lot of damage for a 30mph rear end shunt
Portuguese driver in Spanish wagon.Did his brakes fail,im sure the police will check its service history.Like someone else has mentioned does seem a lot of damage for 30 mph impact.Thats moped or scooter speed.Didnt mention any rest or driving hours infringements.Can anyone indicate if the police can prove with evidence that his computer was on at the time,like they know with mobile phone records.
tim williams:
Portuguese driver in Spanish wagon.Did his brakes fail,im sure the police will check its service history.Like someone else has mentioned does seem a lot of damage for 30 mph impact.Thats moped or scooter speed.Didnt mention any rest or driving hours infringements.Can anyone indicate if the police can prove with evidence that his computer was on at the time,like they know with mobile phone records.
they can examine the hard drive to see what activity (if any) was happening at the time of the accident, e.g computer saving files background stuff that the computer does when using it not human intervention stuff if that makes sense.
pecjam23:
they can examine the hard drive to see what activity (if any) was happening at the time of the accident, e.g computer saving files background stuff that the computer does when using it not human intervention stuff if that makes sense.
The prosecution has suggested he may have been using a sat nav system on a laptop computer as he drove, if they can check the hard drive and he had been using it i think the prosecution would be stating that fact, not suggesting it.
pecjam23:
they can examine the hard drive to see what activity (if any) was happening at the time of the accident, e.g computer saving files background stuff that the computer does when using it not human intervention stuff if that makes sense.
The prosecution has suggested he may have been using a sat nav system on a laptop computer as he drove, if they can check the hard drive and he had been using it i think the prosecution would be stating that fact, not suggesting it.
sorry i meant in general should of put that, my mistake - no not if the had drive was beyond recovery they cant examine it.
I still stand by what I said and it’s equally relevant to all drivers regardless of their nationality and license entitlement. Maybe it’s just me but wouldn’t he of still crashed into the back off the truck in front, how the ■■■■ did he not see over a Previa that the truck in front had come to a standstill, I think he’s convicted himself by saying the Previa had already crashed does that mean he hadn’t left enough room to stop safely?, to me it’s open and shut, guilty of mass murder, 6 concurent life sentences, next case…
i was queing for the yard a couple of weeks ago and had my laptop on. so i left it open while i went into the yard to drop of a box. it frightened me at the blindspot it created so much so even for a few yards i quickly shut it. there is no way i could imagine driving on open roads with it stuck on the dash board.
jessicas dad:
i was queing for the yard a couple of weeks ago and had my laptop on. so i left it open while i went into the yard to drop of a box. it frightened me at the blindspot it created so much so even for a few yards i quickly shut it. there is no way i could imagine driving on open roads with it stuck on the dash board.
I couldn’t have mine on the dash, I tried it but I couldn’t see a bloody thing, I had to move it before I got out of the yard.
I put mine at the side of me on the engine hump (is there a proper name for that?), you can see it out of the corner of your eye as you’re checking your n/s mirrors, the route is highlighted and shows the next turn, so you don’t need to look directly at it to see which way you’re going.
I do occasionally look when I’m on the m/way to check distances, but I’m quite obsessive about checking it’s safe beforehand, I wouldn’t dream of doing it if there was anything around me at the time.
It’s just a shame that a few use them irresponsibly (such as watching films), giving people the opinion that’s been seen here - laptop = bad
jessicas dad:
i was queing for the yard a couple of weeks ago and had my laptop on. so i left it open while i went into the yard to drop of a box. it frightened me at the blindspot it created so much so even for a few yards i quickly shut it. there is no way i could imagine driving on open roads with it stuck on the dash board.
Bloke on our firm had his Laptop on the dash and was fiddling with it when VOSA happened to be driving past…he was pulled,given a GV9 or whatever the code is…company obviously weren’t impressed at all…so he was sacked!!!
I did it a couple of years back when I was ■■■■■■■■ my pants on my way through mid wales…didn’t have a clue where i was going and i haven’t got Sat-Nav (only autoroute without GPS)…your right,it causes a massive blindspot over the front of the unit…have never done it since…i ■■■■ about with a map book now …nah…I got tom tom on my N95 now,so on the rare occasion i get a bit stuck,i use that.
Anyway back on topic…MADBAZ,your obviously wasted as a lorry driver…maybe a crown or high court judge position would suit you…■■■■ all the evidence and circumstances…you can read all about it in the Sun and the Daily Mail and then make your mind up eh??
Lynch mob justice always favorite with the ill-educated and mis-informed…too many people make their minds up by being brainwashed into how to think by the mainstream media and their mates…whatever happened to making YOUR own mind up about things…thinking for yourself…having enough intelligence and being grown up about things to not take things as black and white but to look into ALL sides of the equation and making a well thought out balanced judgement.
this topic has been covered a few times since the event happened and I have always said that NONE of us were there at the time,NONE of us know the whole facts about what happened and all that we are saying on here is pure rumour and speculation…and we all know about lorry drivers and rumour and speculation go hand-in-hand.
we must also remember that not all foreign drivers are bad…they dont all have laptops on the dash with their feet up and to be honest i’ve seen plenty of British drivers doing EXACTLY the same…and moreso on the texting front!!!
we’re not all perfect,things and events happen beyond our control…one minute your cruising along minding your own business,the next minute 3 lorries and 5 cars are strewn across the carriageway or whatever…i certainly wouldn’t say it was MURDER(shock horror)as the event certainly in my mind wasn’t pre-meditated(for all I know)…unless when he left his wife and family in Portugal all he could think of was killing a British family of 5 in a people carrier on the northbound M6■■..somehow I doubt it.
Oh…and would there be such a fuss about it on here and in the media if the driver was British??..I.THINK.NOT !!!
MADBAZ:
I still stand by what I said and it’s equally relevant to all drivers regardless of their nationality and license entitlement. Maybe it’s just me but wouldn’t he of still crashed into the back off the truck in front, how the [zb] did he not see over a Previa that the truck in front had come to a standstill, I think he’s convicted himself by saying the Previa had already crashed does that mean he hadn’t left enough room to stop safely?, to me it’s open and shut, guilty of mass murder, 6 concurent life sentences, next case…
You aint mad, Baz you should run for some sort of alternative party and be one of Jeremy C’s cabinet as should Noel Whatshisface Edmonds (that’s it) How many people would vote for a party like that??
Sgt David Cox, motorway supervisor for Cheshire Police, told the court that on the night of the crash driving conditions were “excellent”.
I was on the M6 that night and it was torrential rain. But i wasn’t where the crash was. So what does someone say who did see it?
I was passing on the opposite carriageway going southbound when i notice a van had been in an accident near to the junction 17 ,i wondered why there was no traffic was coming up on the opposite side so has i continued along i could see that the traffic was being diverted off at junction 16 it was pouring down and the next thing i saw was this lorry jackknifeing into the central reservation hitting the barrier and another exploding into flames ,i slowed down to make sure he was’nt gonna come on to my side pulled on the hardshoulder to catch my breath ,has i looked out of the window i could see the driver just managin to get out of his cab to investigate people were still flying down at high speed i was waiting for some more vehicles to join the impact within a matter of a few minute the lorry was well up in flames something was in between but could’nt see what ,
…i had to take in the fact it was pourin down with heavy rain at the time
Whetever happens to this guy he is going to be judged by a jury of his ‘peers’ and I would bet that not one of that jury has ever been inside the cab of an HGV vehicle never mind driven one across Europe
He has already been found guilty by the media, and a few other fellow drivers on here (SHAME ON YOU), only by the fact that he is a foreigner and a family of six are no longer with us, plus what they have read and believed in the biased sensationalist media we have to live with.
How many of you take laptops with you when you are away for a few days, a few weeks or even a few months!! I’m sure if you had been invoved in any kind of collision the lappy would have been thrown around the cab and not still facing you unless it had been stuck into place with superglue.
It seems very strange to me that the skills of an inexperienced car driver, who possibly had never driven in such appalling conditions, is not being put under more scrutiny. Who is willing to stand up and say that the mother’s lack of driving experience and skill could actually have contributed to causing the deaths of all her family? No-one I’m sure so maybe what this Foreign driver is trying, through an interpreter, to say might actually be the truth of the incident but because of the horror and absolute devastation to a young family, all extended family and the ES’s people who had to deal with the aftermath, has made a balanced judgement very difficult to come to.
I have memorie’s of an very similar type of fatal incident happening on what was reported as a tarmac road in Saudi Arabia in 1976/77 were a family of 6 died in a collision with a British Truck, RF Interport from Leigh, the driver was immediately thrown into jail as that was the way their system worked then and probably still does now. A big campaign was launched to get the driver freed because he was obviously ‘innocent’ of any wrongdoing and he was ‘British’ but when we are now able to read some of the M/E drivers reminiscences maybe that driver was’nt as innocent as what was made out in our beloved media at the time.
If this driver is proven guilty of causing these deaths by dangerous driving, beyond reasonable doubt, then the full weight of the law and the most severe punishment should be given but lets not hang him first because it does appear that some of the evidence is a bit flaky and if any of us ‘god forbid’ found ourselves in the same position we would want and expect to have a fair trail.
Regards
Dave Penn;
why was the motorway closed between jct 17-18,causing the initial tailback?
edit;;;
the reason i ask was partly answered by mike c…i remember the weather was bad that night too,a friend of mine was trying to do a run to manchester that evening and was commenting about the amount of accidents that had happened that evening.
yet the police say the conditions were fine.
this guy has been hung out to dry by the police as well, first he rear ended the car and he’s foreign, then they must have been having ■■■■■■■ over the carriageway when they found the laptop, a perfect scapegoat.
anybody who’s ever been to court will know how they lean the evidence their way, thats why the majority of people with a criminal record can’t be on a jury.
davepenn54:
Whetever happens to this guy he is going to be judged by a jury of his ‘peers’ and I would bet that not one of that jury has ever been inside the cab of an HGV vehicle never mind driven one across Europe
twelve people who’ve never driven a lorry, who’ve been stuck behind one overtaking on a dual carriageway, the usual anti lorry stuff
they are really his peers aren’t they, and it won’t end there.
the prosecuting solicitor will not accuse this man of working over long hours or breaking the rules, but he will tell the jury how its commonplace to do so in the industry.
he wont say for definate that he was watching the laptop, but as he’s done already he’ll suggest that he could have done, and he’ll add that its commonplace among foreign drivers to do so,
if the defence objects he’ll even cite cases such as the one watching das boot last week, even though he wasn’t even on the road when caught.
or the one on the A55 making a meal while driving, he’ll even suggest that’s rife among foreign drivers as well
this guy doesn’t have a chance, he’ll get between 6 and 10 years
tim williams:
The police reported that the lap top screen was facing the driver after the accident,by the drivers seat.After an impact of 31 mph,how can the lap top remain in the same position,surely with the force of impact and abrupt stop,it would have moved to the floor of the cab,as do most cab items,on a normal driving day,like roundabouts,etc.Or have i missed something.
@timwilliams, Most of those who use or have a lap top
will either buy a table,or build one themselves,this is
secured on the front dash board area, and the Laptop
will be very well secured by various means so that unless
the cabin is a total wreck it stays in position,
I had to look through the link to make sure that I had read the posts and so then put my thoughts to this, ,YES it looks like this Driver has got not much of a chance of a fair trail as we all have given him the guilty verdict, IF THE POLICE have found enough evidence to convict him then yes, but PUT the laptop aside He ran into the back of the vehicle, HOW;WHY; he was either distracted
Not paying attention to the traffic,
He was driveing at the wrong speed
for that road ,at THAT particualr time.
He is in my eyes at fault, and Unless the defense
can prove to me other wise,I would make a example
because only then when people know that the
PUNISHMENT will be extreme and hard will
they drive as required and stop
watching dvd,s or the laptop
and or the television, also reading,by the
way this goes for all car, and van drivers aswell
who ever they are be it british,Dutch or any of
those who drive on the roads be it.Here in
the UK or any WHERE else ,…
tim williams:
The police reported that the lap top screen was facing the driver after the accident,by the drivers seat.After an impact of 31 mph,how can the lap top remain in the same position,surely with the force of impact and abrupt stop,it would have moved to the floor of the cab,as do most cab items,on a normal driving day,like roundabouts,etc.Or have i missed something.
@timwilliams, Most of those who use or have a lap top will either buy a table,or build one themselves,this is secured on the front dash board area, and the Laptop will be very well secured by various means so that unless the cabin is a total wreck it stays in position,
On one hand they’re saying the laptop was open in front of him, but in the news report:
BBC:
The remains of the laptop were found in the cab of his lorry.
Surely it can’t be both? I know news reports tend to inaccurate, but it’s rare they add stuff, especially when it seems to favour him more.
davepenn54:
It seems very strange to me that the skills of an inexperienced car driver, who possibly had never driven in such appalling conditions, is not being put under more scrutiny.
Death automatically relieves you of blame. Yet Another Lorry Driver Dies on Our Roads - THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE) - Trucknet UK (26 yr old killed on A14), out of 15 posts, only one mentions anything about leaving bigger gaps. When there aren’t fatalities, the same people get slated for sitting too close. (I’ll probably get grief for that - I am sympathetic, and it is tragic, but had he left a bigger gap, then maybe he’d still be with us)
bikemonkey:
i haven’t got Sat-Nav (only autoroute without GPS)
