Driver Shortage Theory

Build5:

tallyman:
Interesting read and it matches what’s been happening with the company I work for. Big organisation, previously had majority core drivers and about probably 15-30% agency, varying through the year. Since Brexit, IR35, Covid etc., we have very few agency, a massive amount of outside contractors who do the single hit deliveries and it means that core drivers now end up with the multi-drop or double runs, meaning our working days have lengthened until the end of the reference period, at which time the compliance manager can’t figure out why so many drivers are being stood down and they struggle to get deliveries done on-time, if at all. New management haven’t helped by alienating staff, both in the office and amongst the drivers. Luckily I’m nearing retirement so I shall put up with the cr*p until then but long-term I really do wonder how they are going to keep things going.

Easy answer…

PUT

THE

PAY

UP

It really is that simple.

70,000 people have class 1 and 2 license and don’t drive. There is NO driver shortage. There is a cr*p pay problem.

Ooooh! I drive a brand new scanny for £10.79 an hour and it’s my truck

Good for you.

I’ll drive anything legal if you pay me £20 an hour (days) or £25 (nights). I don’t work weekends and I don’t sleep in a tin box. You can get me a Premier inn and £20 for a meal and £75 for the inconvenience of being away from my family…

Oh, you don’t like those rates? Well I don’t like your rates. Let’s discuss it.

Or let’s not discuss it and see who goes bankrupt and I’ll either buy a truck to take up the slack or go and stack shelves for the same money. Either way, you lose. I win.

What about in the real world

Sent while from gods know where

Yorkshire Tramper:

DCPCFML:
Meanwhile, back in the real world… Those “stringent laws” haven’t stopped you from getting yourself banned from every logistics company in Kent.

Flamin hell, you are maybe not quite so thick as I thought, I didn’t understand a word of what the chap was saying, yet you answered him?? Bizarre!!!

…Crafty enough to hurl all these outrageous daggers at my back at every turn, as if he’s been doing it for years, and personally knows me… I wonder. :confused:

DCPCFML:

Winseer:

DCPCFML:

Winseer:
The only thing that would prevent me being head hunted - is an active policy of discrimiation taken against me by some errant acting manager, which a employer firm might take exception to - firing the manager, rather than risk ligation. A classic pitfall there would be if such a person foolishly decided to breach data protection, in the form of “Private and Confidential” thrown under the bus in the name of petty back-biting…

I’m confident that no such thing would happen then, - because of stringent laws against it already in place then.

Meanwhile, back in the real world… Those “stringent laws” haven’t stopped you from getting yourself banned from every logistics company in Kent.

And yet you say it like you know of it personally, and are indeed part of it… Care to reveal who you are with the proverbial knife still dripping by the sounds of it Mr?

I’m not banned in writing anywhere. They were too gutless to risk said litigation for rampant discrimination, so the TWO bans I’ve ever had - were “on the nod” only. I make them look bad, and they knew it. When I bring a H&S near miss breach to a manager - I expect them to follow it up and NOT get rid of me on a pretence instead! It is illegal to fire whilstleblowers, as per gov.uk/whistleblowing
“Agency” is clearly on that list.

“Adherence to H&S”? Pah. Don’t make me laugh! I got accused of the very thing I reported, just so ranks could be closed, and the “Union Member Full Timer” protected on a “My word against his” basis eh?

You really do have absolutely no clue how the real world works. Every time you write a riposte on here you just prove what everyone has been saying all along : you’re the stereotypical “I know my rights” gobshi te agency driver who everyone loathes with a passion. Your attitude absolutely stinks and if I was running the desk at the places you frequent, your name would be swiftly added to the DO NOT USE list. You are so far up your own arse that you can’t even see your problem.

I don’t have any rights, never really had any - and it is people like you whom I’ve never deducted anything from that make my life a misery by trampling all over those rights that Unionized people get - but I guess agency “scum” like me don’'t - right?

Here’s another “driver shortage theory” then, getting back onto topic…

Firms that think they can solve all shortages with lesser-qualified, “six points ok” and communication barrier persons given jobs over more experienced, clean-licenced and law abiding people like myself - there will continue to be a shortage that no one recognizes, because the two sides of this argument - ARE the problem, rather than part of the solution.

It is bad business to base one’s judgement on personal like or dislike rather than “How much would this person make/lose us, if we gave them a job here…”?
There’s no shortage of people who are quite happy to work for minimum wage, just to get those in-work benefits, and an indefinate leave to remain…
There’s a shortage of people now (but far less so before) who’ll put up with the crap that is the daily diet in this entire industry. I can’t agree with the notion that “The Pay” is everything, as if that were the case, places that DO pay £20ph - wouldn’t be on the recruitment drive as much as firms that pay near minimum wages - would they?

If the Government then, is to solve the current so-called “shortage”, then they will need a bit of ground-floor thinking rather than anything “Blue Sky”.

Insurances - need to be looked at.
“Danger to the Public” needs to be of high priority, rather than thrown in the corner, like a ball of waste paper that missed the bin…

It is the system that is broken, and now the economy of the wider country.
All the while it stays broken, any old crook can start up a new business, indulge in crooked dealings involving the black market, dodgy people, and a grossly mislead public who think they are safe, but of course are not from such a corner-cutting race-to-the-bottom economy that we should already be away from by this point post-Brexit…

It’s what we voted to do, after all…

Winseer:
I don’t have any rights, never really had any - and it is people like you whom I’ve never deducted anything from that make my life a misery by trampling all over those rights that Unionized people get - but I guess agency “scum” like me don’'t - right?

Everybody has rights mate, it all depends on if you are prepared to stand up for them or not. I also wouldn’t take too much notice of DCPCFML either, I have only been on here a short while but have already sussed out that he just likes to try to make himself look big on here, a real keyboard warrior type. If he is making your life a misery mate, just ignore him or bark back at him. Too many of his type in this game mate, just another to not bother with. Don’t talk like you’re some sort of loser or “scum” as you adressed yourself. Cannot tolerate people who think they can make people feel this way.

Yorkshire Tramper:

Winseer:
I don’t have any rights, never really had any - and it is people like you whom I’ve never deducted anything from that make my life a misery by trampling all over those rights that Unionized people get - but I guess agency “scum” like me don’'t - right?

Everybody has rights mate, it all depends on if you are prepared to stand up for them or not. I also wouldn’t take too much notice of DCPCFML either, I have only been on here a short while but have already sussed out that he just likes to try to make himself look big on here, a real keyboard warrior type. If he is making your life a misery mate, just ignore him or bark back at him. Too many of his type in this game mate, just another to not bother with. Don’t talk like you’re some sort of loser or “scum” as you adressed yourself. Cannot tolerate people who think they can make people feel this way.

No one makes my life a misery on here so much. I suspect he might be some manager who used to know me, having relocated, removing any clue to his ID in the process. His speculations smack of him having personally crossed my path at some point, as why would someone apparently far away from Kent refer to me as being banned everywhere IN kent, when it’s not his locale, and I’ve not been officially banned anywhere, as it’s always been made-up reasons for banning me from site, a different kettle of fish altogether.

My life is only made a misery by unionized floor workers who never liked me from the start, and/or acting managers, often from the same number that never quite got that full promotion, but act like jumped-up little hitlers, 'cos they know all the rank-and-file dodges, and take it personally when I tell them the truth that upsets them so much all the time. :smiling_imp: :smiling_imp:

Thinks don’t go wrong usually, until some acting manager invervenes, trying to fix something that wasn’t broken, or moan at me for not being able to do an extra run on top of a normal duty in the same time as without that extra run, especially when it involves taking a legal break @ 4.5hrs driving in a MSA for example, which the firm might ban us from doing…

I play the “Needs Must” game, and act to keep my licence, rather than obey stupid rules without question, even when it means breaking the law if I otherwise followed such rules to the letter…

I’ve always worked best when alone, and left to my own devices. I’m not a team player in any case, because I’m all too often given conflicting instructions by managers/senior floor workers/acting managers that’ll have me chasing around run ragged, trying to keep their conflicting instructions, but usually failing miserably to do so.

In that, you can see why Union committee types - don’t think much of me, neither eh? :grimacing:

tallyman:
It isn’t the wages that are at issue in our place, we are on a fairly decent rate and the job is fairly easy, it’s just the fact that the agency drivers they had have almost all gone back home, the gaps are being filled with outside contractors and core drivers are being treated like excrement and pushed to the limit.

And yet where I am we have lost just ONE Eastern European agency driver. He was Ltd but did everything properly which is why when lockdown came around he was sat at home when he furloughed himself getting paid the maximum amount of money whilst those who played the tax dodging game got nowt so had to come in. He didn’t go home because of IR35.

winseer:
My life is only made a misery by unionized floor workers who never liked me from the start, and/or acting managers, often from the same number that never quite got that full promotion, but act like jumped-up little hitlers, 'cos they know all the rank-and-file dodges, and take it personally when I tell them the truth that upsets them so much all the time. :smiling_imp: :smiling_imp:

When that starts to happen at pretty much every place you go to at some point you have to look in the mirror and start to ask yourself if you’re actually the problem.

Conor:

tallyman:
It isn’t the wages that are at issue in our place, we are on a fairly decent rate and the job is fairly easy, it’s just the fact that the agency drivers they had have almost all gone back home, the gaps are being filled with outside contractors and core drivers are being treated like excrement and pushed to the limit.

And yet where I am we have lost just ONE Eastern European agency driver. He was Ltd but did everything properly which is why when lockdown came around he was sat at home when he furloughed himself getting paid the maximum amount of money whilst those who played the tax dodging game got nowt so had to come in. He didn’t go home because of IR35.

winseer:
My life is only made a misery by unionized floor workers who never liked me from the start, and/or acting managers, often from the same number that never quite got that full promotion, but act like jumped-up little hitlers, 'cos they know all the rank-and-file dodges, and take it personally when I tell them the truth that upsets them so much all the time. :smiling_imp: :smiling_imp:

When that starts to happen at pretty much every place you go to at some point you have to look in the mirror and start to ask yourself if you’re actually the problem.

It hasn’t - just the better-paid places, that seem to resent very much some upstart agency bod earning as much cash as they do with their big union protections…

Not had any problems at smaller firms where people don’t care how much I’m earning…
The less acting managers that are around - the less hassle I get.
Thus, the ideal yard to work out of has:-

(1) As few acting managers as possible
(2) Those that are there - actually know what is possible, likely, or neither - before they ask it of anyone. A full manager who doesn’t ask anyone to do things they would not be prepared to do themselves - commands greater respect as well.
(3) The job is 90% out on the road, rather than stuck at some office/depot where tensions can build up in the prescence of mine enemies… (I’ll acknowledge having an abrasive personality like Trump on that part…)
(4) Pays for all hours worked, and doesn’t quibble over how long the job takes, as they know full well already, having done it themselves in the past.
(5) Doesn’t moan at you for keeping legal at all times, even if that means taking longer to do the job (as it will invariably do)
(6) Doesn’t moan at you for being “off route”, as a driver should have at least as much freedom of movement as their colleagues not born in this country do…
(7) Provides basic support and facilities to assist one performing their duties
(8) Doesn’t ring you in your cab all the time, when they have not provided a hands-free phone to answer there!
(9) Doesn’t have a camera pointing at you in your cab, that they needlessly DID provide.

Is that asking so much?

Tailschwing:
I’m shocked by some of the Class 1 salaries I read on here. Biffa pay £14.60 on Class 2, with lots of drivers getting a £20 a day fixed bonus (£29 for cover drivers to compensate for the stress of doing an unfamiliar round each day, although most of them know 90% of the jobs our depot does by now anyway).

Biffa work is hardly comparable if you’re talking about commercial bins. It’s half drivimg and half manual labour, plus the most retarded shift patterns known to man, 6 day weeks and lots of weekends and stupid start times so you have no family life. I’ve done it and it’s not a fun job even in the summer. In the winter time it’s a complete ball-ache trying to even get close to the collections on snowy or icy access roads, then trying to move a frozen tonne bin full of crap over compacted ice and snow whilst trying to stay upright yourself. The office put far too many collections on you as well which means you have to rush around like an idiot. It’s why they have such a high turnover of drivers and are constantly advertising. Those that do get the jobs typically only last a few weeks until they find something else. Look at the review sites to see what drivers think of it.

Ahh yes… “Rush Rush Rush” - the bane of this entire industry, still wearing the chains of the now-outmoded Just-In-Time business model where everything is wanted Yesterday, if not sooner for less money paid always later than tomorrow…

Remember orys? Plenty will.
For those who remember or are interested, here’s his 2p worth, he’s posted an opinion piece on the UK driver shortage here:-

orynski.eu/20-reasons-why-there … in-the-uk/.

Well written I thought, it was always interesting to see from the point of view of an intelligent EE driver, though the article is mainly not telling drivers anything they don’t already know. Indeed it was a customer who drew my attention to it, dunno why he was interested in the subject, but it was presumably mainly for the layman’s consumption.

P.S. Where was the photo when the red light taken? I presume Scotland but it looks like the Wye valley road above Chepstow, not that I’ve been up there for a few years.

By all accounts, it’s a fairly accurate summary. But by the same token, there’s a lot worse ways to earn £35k per year. Horses for courses. :bulb:

Tesco…

Offering a grand sign on incentive.

bbc.co.uk/news/business-57983698

Snudger:
P.S. Where was the photo when the red light taken? I presume Scotland but it looks like the Wye valley road above Chepstow, not that I’ve been up there for a few years.

Could be; there’s been a rockfall issue there south of Tintern for a while.

Well that was interesting, the chap has superb written English which made it an easy enjoyable read.

Pretty well on the mark on most points, from what he says it looks like the EE drivers won’t be returning in any great numbers and when you see it all in an article like (written by a bloke who’s seen the differences across the continent) that it brings home why no youngsters can be arsed with getting into the industry.

RIPPER:
Somebody posted this in response to a tweet from Andrea Jenkyns MP about the driver shortage being due to Covid

I thought the response was pretty accurate and deserved to be shared so here you go:

Ok, I’ll do my best to explain the current serious issues in the UK haulage industry. A few years ago as the borders of Europe expanded, there was an influx of newly christened Eastern Europeans a coming our shores. These characters had a licence for a tractor and trailer back home, however, the EU translated it to a HGV licence. As wages back home were very poor, these characters were very happy to work, driving a HGV, for the minimum wage (in some cases on a day rate that with the long hours equated to less), obviously the haulage industry loved this cheap labour, the workers living in the truck all week, and 6 to a 2 bed house in run down areas on their days off. UK drivers were dismayed by this, as these foreign drivers made up the workforce as drivers retired, and in the last 12 or so years have ended up as around 30% of the UK HGV drivers! UK drivers tried to find a way to make better their income, so, as hauliers wouldn’t increase wages, they looked at other methods. Hey presto, form a 1 man LTD company, subcontract to the haulier, the LTD bills the company a little more than the ‘wage’
, the haulier escaped holiday, pension, sick pay and employers contribution, then draw a minimal wage under the tax threshold, pay no income tax, minimal NI, and then take a tax free dividend after paying corporation tax, basically, earn 25k, pay less than 1k in tax. The drivers are happy exploiting a loophole, increasing their take home pay, the hauliers were overjoyed, and there was nowt HMRC could do. The foreign drivers cottoned on to this, and around 50% of UK drivers utilised this route.
Last year HMRC passed a new ruling, commencing April this
year, IR35 came into force. Basically this rules that no company that employs more than 50 employees can use the services of a LTD driver, the big hauliers had 50% of their workforce on this scheme, oh dear, time for a pay rise, £9/10 per hour isn’t enough.
Whilst this was happening, Brexit agreements ruled that to work in the UK you need a working Visa if your not a UK citizen (70% of the foreign drivers weren’t citizens, but the rest had gained it through marriage or other means), for this you need a professional qualification, a HGV licence doesn’t fall into this category, so it’s time for them to depart our shores, but not before their LTD companies claimed the £20k bounce back loan from the government, then promptly the company goes bust as it can’t trade, and they wave Britain goodbye.
The government realise they ballsed up and brush it under the carpet.
The result? 65000 drivers lost, Britain coming out of Covid, the economy restarting, bigger demand on road haulage, and a massive driver shortage. Initially haulage companies wouldn’t increase wages, but when
they realised how severe the issue is, they increased wages, as they will loose contracts and fold without the drivers, (stobart have lost some Tesco and surrendered others as they can’t recruit on their low wage), DHL step in, and offer a lot more money, PAYE only, and poach a
those who have still can’t get full teams of drivers, they poach some, some won’t move for £2 extra per hour, so now wages are £14-30 an hour, supply chain must keep supplying, they’re hands are tied. Tesco have agreed to foot the extra wage bill, they will pass it on to the
consumer, they need stock in the stores! They are binning fresh produce a RDCs as it expires before it gets in the trucks! Notice gaps in the supermarkets? That’s why!
Sadly some hauliers won’t recognise this issue, I work for one of them unfortunately, and due to drivers
leaving, we are 20% down in drivers, agencies can’t supply as DHL and the like are outbidding and getting the drivers, we have got together to try for a resolve, they come up with 40p an hour, so £10.40, or £540 for my salaried 4 on 4 off, we said £12 minimum, they’ve turned
hostile, the following day 2 more handed their notice in, then myself and others have lost our short runs, so we do more hours, I like my job, but I won’t be taken for a mug, I’ve applied to DHL Tesco at Goole today, 4 on 4 off shunting, 38 miles a day less commuting, and £200 a week more, and it’s 6 till 6, alternate days and night blocks, so it’s easier hours. In reality, there’s never been a better time to be a lorry driver, but the shortage will ■■■■■■■ the industry.
Ps, Our boss arrived to the meeting in a brand new Porsche, then said she can’t
afford a decent pay rise, sorry, I’m not wearing it!!
I hope this gives you a better understanding of this situation."

Words of a friend.

100%

Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk

The Polish Guys’ thoughts on MSA’s are worth a read too !!

“That moment, when you need to pee while travelling on the British motorway…”

blue estate:

Build5:

tallyman:
Interesting read and it matches what’s been happening with the company I work for. Big organisation, previously had majority core drivers and about probably 15-30% agency, varying through the year. Since Brexit, IR35, Covid etc., we have very few agency, a massive amount of outside contractors who do the single hit deliveries and it means that core drivers now end up with the multi-drop or double runs, meaning our working days have lengthened until the end of the reference period, at which time the compliance manager can’t figure out why so many drivers are being stood down and they struggle to get deliveries done on-time, if at all. New management haven’t helped by alienating staff, both in the office and amongst the drivers. Luckily I’m nearing retirement so I shall put up with the cr*p until then but long-term I really do wonder how they are going to keep things going.

Easy answer…

PUT

THE

PAY

UP

It really is that simple.

70,000 people have class 1 and 2 license and don’t drive. There is NO driver shortage. There is a cr*p pay problem.

Ooooh! I drive a brand new scanny for £10.79 an hour and it’s my truck

Good for you.

I’ll drive anything legal if you pay me £20 an hour (days) or £25 (nights). I don’t work weekends and I don’t sleep in a tin box. You can get me a Premier inn and £20 for a meal and £75 for the inconvenience of being away from my family…

Oh, you don’t like those rates? Well I don’t like your rates. Let’s discuss it.

Or let’s not discuss it and see who goes bankrupt and I’ll either buy a truck to take up the slack or go and stack shelves for the same money. Either way, you lose. I win.

What about in the real world

Sent while from gods know where

I don’t know what your “real world” is, but in my world (indeed and CV library) rates are going up and up.

If you’re happy working for whatever you’re working for, good for you!

I’m painfully aware I have one body and only so many hours each day to maximise my income. My labour is no different to any other business. My goal (and it should be yours) is to maximise my productivity and income. Anything else is commercial suicide.

Or maybe you’re just a body to be abused until you drop? That isn’t a very good business model.

Snudger:
P.S. Where was the photo when the red light taken? I presume Scotland but it looks like the Wye valley road above Chepstow, not that I’ve been up there for a few years.

Little bird told me that I’ve unwittingly succedeed in creating a Where Am I that nobody can guess, so I can tell you that it was somewhere around here: goo.gl/maps/YPFy1JBmKnhUJVWJ6

And it’s an old photo, I just pulled one I had in my archives, as I am trying to use my own / creative commons / public domain photos only on my blog.

It’s nice to see you guys have read it. Of course it would be nothing new for most of you here, as you lived through all of this and got the t-shirts :slight_smile:

thetastytrucker:

RIPPER:
These characters had a licence for a tractor and trailer back home, however, the EU translated it to a HGV licence.

Who makes that ■■■■ up? And, more importantly, who believes that crap?

Actually, most of Europe had the standardized categories of driving licenses (A, B, C, D, +E etc.) for much longer than Britain. So no, there was no way tractor license was re-written into C+E license, as, unlike in Britain, most of the countries already had European standard categories when the EU unified its driving licenses in 2003.

It just happened that I recently passed my C+E test in Poland (until now I only had C) and I was showing it to a British colleague of mine, who did the same in Britain and we compared notes, i.e: I showed him this clip depicting first half of the practical exam:

youtube.com/watch?v=Tg_eFtNkKOA&t=334s

He agreed with me that British test is easier and said he would never be able to do that. Then a more experienced class 1 driver came, look over my shoulder, watched for a while and said “■■■■ this, I would not be able to do that as well” and went away :slight_smile:

So next time if one want to make a laugh about drivers who will get into the trade without being properly trained, I suggest taking on Britons, who will be able to go straight to C+E and would be able to pass their tests without coupling or uncoupling or showing that they know how to reverse…