robinhood_1984:
Lets just take our cynical hats off for one second and assume that British haulage companies were actually interested in employing and retaining British drivers. If that was the case, and we all know it isn’t, then the good old “Must be over 25 years of age for insurance purposes and have a minimum of two years experience” would cease to exist as a constant barrier to entry in to the job for home grown drivers and especially young drivers, the very age group you need to be targeting before they all embark on other paths. At the end of the day, if you cover seeds you’ve planted in your flower bed with a tarpaulin in the shape of the above mentioned quotation, your seeds will never bear fruit and become drivers. This is solely an industry created problem due to short sightedness and greed, something endemic in Britain more so than any other western nation.
Pretty much spot on.
In many other industries, employers will train recruits as required, with a contract clause stipulating they have to remain with the employer for a certain number of years to ‘pay back’ the skills gained. There are many ways in which an employer can soak up a training costs by recovering it via other means - which in turn enables ‘locked out’ candidates the opportunity of a job, a the industry becomes self-sufficient…
robinhood_1984:
Lets just take our cynical hats off for one second and assume that British haulage companies were actually interested in employing and retaining British drivers. If that was the case, and we all know it isn’t, then the good old “Must be over 25 years of age for insurance purposes and have a minimum of two years experience” would cease to exist as a constant barrier to entry in to the job for home grown drivers and especially young drivers, the very age group you need to be targeting before they all embark on other paths. At the end of the day, if you cover seeds you’ve planted in your flower bed with a tarpaulin in the shape of the above mentioned quotation, your seeds will never bear fruit and become drivers. This is solely an industry created problem due to short sightedness and greed, something endemic in Britain more so than any other western nation.
Pretty much spot on.
In many other industries, employers will train recruits as required, with a contract clause stipulating they have to remain with the employer for a certain number of years to ‘pay back’ the skills gained. There are many ways in which an employer can soak up a training costs by recovering it via other means - which in turn enables ‘locked out’ candidates the opportunity of a job, a the industry becomes self-sufficient…
The fact is just as when I left school in 1975 we’ve got a young drivers training programme set up by the modern equivalent of the RTITB and there’s a general reduction in the age of holding an LGV licence to 18.
Against that we’ve also got a political agenda which goes against road transport in favour of rail thereby making the job less secure and with lower income potential.While just like in 1975 there’s also an agenda of the the bs ‘experience’ or face fits pecking order.Together with an environment across the industry which disproportionately limits the scope for entry into the less boring international distance/haulage sector as opposed to the distribution sector in all its forms.All of which seems to go against a decision to enter the road transport industry by any school leaver here as opposed to their Polish etc counterpart there.While obviously also to an extent gradually making it more difficult to employ at least East Euro immigrant labour.On that note yes the industry mostly only has itself to blame ‘if’ there is any actual shortage ( doubtful ).
As for me if I had my time again I’d probably have done whatever it took to get into train driving instead being that this country really is the environment from hell regards the choice of opportunities and returns in road transport.
el_presidente:
In many other industries, employers will train recruits as required, with a contract clause stipulating they have to remain with the employer for a certain number of years to ‘pay back’ the skills gained. There are many ways in which an employer can soak up a training costs by recovering it via other means - which in turn enables ‘locked out’ candidates the opportunity of a job, a the industry becomes self-sufficient…
I’ve been pounding this drum for ages. If hauliers in the NE are that desperate for drivers they feel the need to go on local news, it’s probably time they considered doing something proactive about it themselves, rather than forever living in hope that screaming “driver shortage” will see good new drivers landing on their lap. Even worse, suggesting government comes to their rescue with funding
Why not do something like have a yard open day, encourage people to come along for a chat & get the names of anybody interested and TRAIN UP the right candidates.
rob22888:
Why not do something like have a yard open day, encourage people to come along for a chat & get the names of anybody interested and TRAIN UP the right candidates.
Because a Romanian (for example) will work for the minimum wage of less and be readily trained upon arrival, perhaps with years of experience in Romania, at least on paper and can start tomorrow and as a result will not ever fall foul of the insurance requirements preventing British entrants in to the industry. These hauliers don’t actually want home grown and trained drivers, they just want to be seen saying that they want them, not getting them through no fault of their own and being left with no choice but to employ Romanians or whoever else as the only way they can stay in business then when the public or whoever else cries foul of company X employing Romanians over locals, they can readily show months and years worth of staged efforts in which they appeared to be trying to employ locals. Its all politics and acting and while drivers see it for what it is, it will appease the general public who will take all this at face value and accept that these companies are right and there really is no alternative to employing foreigners as they really can find no locals willing to do it.
Or just maybe we might actually be seeing at least a glimmer of the realisation dawning on East Euro drivers why move to an expensive alien country in which the incomes,in real terms,aren’t much better than where they’ve left.Together with the choice between a boring distribution type job here involving loads of awkward hours plus an expensive commute every day.As opposed to a Euro tramping job with quality time X week/s off between Y weeks on.From the East Euro point of view things can only get better by staying at or going home.So long as the EU gravy train keeps going and especially if cabotage restrictions get lifted.
Carryfast:
There’s no shortage of drivers.There’s just a shortage of ‘the type’ of driver who is happy to do all the local multi drop/distribution sector zb work that the Brits are left with after all the foreign operators have taken all the less boring distance work.
That combined with the fact that even what second best trunking work we’ve got is lumbered with needlesly long hours caused by speed limiters and the move away from direct link trailer swaps on job and finish.
The result of all that even being arguably more an issue of ‘turnover’ as opposed to ‘shortage’.The confusion of which would obviously create an excuse for maintaining a high immigration environment.
What a load of crap about speed limiters,they make very little or no difference over the course of a day,especially with the pulling power the big engines have these days.A great deal of them can stay in the 50`s all day long, unlike the days when motors dropped down and needed a gear change at the site of a pimple.
They think the solution to the driver shortage is to throw more foreign drivers at the problem rather than offer a decent hourly rate to home grown drivers. Interest in the industry will never happen until they address this issue.
We have an agency lad coming into our place off and on , Nice kid, Spanish still learning the lingo but getting there as long as you take your time with him, keen and eager to learn the job the Right Way.
I asked him how come he came to be here ( in the UK)
He looked up and said No jobs in Spain
I’ve seen his car driving skills and to say he don’t have a real understanding of where you do a 3 point turn SAFELY is an understatement
The haulage industry have known of an impending driver shortage for years, fewer people training to be driver than are leaving it doesn’t take a genius to work out there is a potential problem, but the industry has buried its head in the sand hoping somebody else would sort the problem.
As for Carryfast thinking its because of lack of European tramping jobs, well just because that what he wanted to do and failed at it doesn’t mean everybody wants the same thing, many driver never want a night out let alone head to Europe. But what they do want if decent pay, conditions. And if they find a job outside the industry that offers a better deal they’ll take it.
I hate to think that my country might suffer as a result of a driver shortage. I am retired but have kept my C+E. I have told the agency I will work if really necessary. I require £20ph., time and a half after 8. No breaks deducted. I hope they don’t take me up on it.
lolipop:
What a load of crap about speed limiters,they make very little or no difference over the course of a day,especially with the pulling power the big engines have these days.A great deal of them can stay in the 50`s all day long, unlike the days when motors dropped down and needed a gear change at the site of a pimple.
That would all depend on the distance and terrain of the run and the ( real world ) power to weight ratio of the old school wagon that you’re talking about.Let’s just say that my working week was ( a lot ) longer running from Heathrow to Dewsbury and back with a Merc 2534 limited to 90 kmh than with an unlimited DAF 2800.
Carryfast:
That would all depend on the distance and terrain of the run and the ( real world ) power to weight ratio of the old school wagon that you’re talking about.Let’s just say that my working week was ( a lot ) longer running from Heathrow to Dewsbury and back with a Merc 2534 limited to 90 kmh than with an unlimited DAF 2800.
Most of that is the traffic though. Before Xmas I got to do a run on days that I normally do on nights from York to Nottingham and it took an hour longer in the day each way.
A Merc 2534 is hardly the most powerful of motors. My DAF CF460 does runs over the M62 the same time it used to take me in my unlimited Leyland Roadtrain with a 290 ■■■■■■■ partly because going up Windy Hill I now do 50+ instead of 35.
Carryfast:
That would all depend on the distance and terrain of the run and the ( real world ) power to weight ratio of the old school wagon that you’re talking about.Let’s just say that my working week was ( a lot ) longer running from Heathrow to Dewsbury and back with a Merc 2534 limited to 90 kmh than with an unlimited DAF 2800.
Most of that is the traffic though. Before Xmas I got to do a run on days that I normally do on nights from York to Nottingham and it took an hour longer in the day each way.
A Merc 2534 is hardly the most powerful of motors. My DAF CF460 does runs over the M62 the same time it used to take me in my unlimited Leyland Roadtrain with a 290 ■■■■■■■ partly because going up Windy Hill I now do 50+ instead of 35.
Where as I went up Windy Hill on Wednesday at 42t. Hit the hill on the limiter and came off it at about 25mph. That was in a Scania 440 manual. I dropped a cog before the hill but just couldnt drag that fat ■■■ up it. It was embarrassing.
On the starting out thing, I was lucky. My old man paid for my license and I paid him back out of increased earnings. I got into Norbert on a zero hours contract as I was too inexperienced for a full time contract, proved myself and got a full time gig. The only unplanned days off I have had since passing my test have been the first week in January this year, due to redundancy and last week to move house.
Whether there is a driver shortage or not, I don’t think it can be denied that the standard line of “2 years experience” in job adverts is becoming less common, and starting to be replaced with “New drivers welcome to apply”. Or is that just me as a wishful thinking newbie?
Carryfast:
That would all depend on the distance and terrain of the run and the ( real world ) power to weight ratio of the old school wagon that you’re talking about.Let’s just say that my working week was ( a lot ) longer running from Heathrow to Dewsbury and back with a Merc 2534 limited to 90 kmh than with an unlimited DAF 2800.
Most of that is the traffic though. Before Xmas I got to do a run on days that I normally do on nights from York to Nottingham and it took an hour longer in the day each way.
A Merc 2534 is hardly the most powerful of motors. My DAF CF460 does runs over the M62 the same time it used to take me in my unlimited Leyland Roadtrain with a 290 ■■■■■■■ partly because going up Windy Hill I now do 50+ instead of 35.
Firstly it’s obvious that the distance being referred to isn’t really comparable.
In my case it was all,mostly light traffic,doing night trunking.The traffic ‘issues’ that there were,were all about the limited wagons increasing journey times to the point where morning commuter traffic certainly was an issue to the point of being a threat to driving time availability.
The result being that most trunking now is done on the hub type system not the old school direct links.Which just creates a different ‘type’ of longer hours.Which means less driving time but longer spent parked up waiting to turn around and get back during all the time spent trans shipping and sorting loads.Thereby creating the even worse situation of longer hours and a more boring job,in even that best case job sector,of what forms most of the UK transport scene.
As for unlimited 2800 v modern day limited 460 running the almost 200 mile each way run from Feltham to Dewsbury and back over night.Trust me all you’d see would be it’s tail lights until around the M40 junction on the 25 then it would be gone to the M1 and on the way home before you’d got there.
Even worse, suggesting government comes to their rescue with funding 
