“Market forces” act in…markets… 
The EU had an issue with a large amount of newly mobile workers in 1989 when the Iron Curtain fell. What would have happened if the West had refused all of those well armed and poorer neighbours any hope of access to the EU markets?
The EU expanded quicker than would have been planned for and expected… but the alternative would quite possibly have been much worse.
.
Blair made a bad situation worse than it needed to be because? Dunno.
.
(Now the ex East Bloc countries are getting better economies, they are now not so far below the western levels.
So…having paid for this equalisation of the EU economies we leave it…)
.
Now we are to enter a new Global market place. The big sell? Cheaper food and goods.
Cheaper imports mean fewer jobs here. No need to import cheap labour, we just export jobs!
.
Our “market” is changing from an increasingly well paid Eu one to a Global one. I don`t see this ending well for UK workers.
Franglais:
“Market forces” act in…markets…
The EU had an issue with a large amount of newly mobile workers in 1989 when the Iron Curtain fell. What would have happened if the West had refused all of those well armed and poorer neighbours any hope of access to the EU markets?
The EU expanded quicker than would have been planned for and expected… but the alternative would quite possibly have been much worse.
.
Blair made a bad situation worse than it needed to be because? Dunno.
.
(Now the ex East Bloc countries are getting better economies, they are now not so far below the western levels.
So…having paid for this equalisation of the EU economies we leave it…)
.
Now we are to enter a new Global market place. The big sell? Cheaper food and goods.
Cheaper imports mean fewer jobs here. No need to import cheap labour, we just export jobs!
.
Our “market” is changing from an increasingly well paid Eu one to a Global one. I don`t see this ending well for UK workers.
Despite everything, you Remoaners just won’t accept that you were wrong, will you? 
Harry Monk:
Despite everything, you Remoaners just won’t accept that you were wrong, will you?
“Despite everything”? Go on then. Make a list of the great successes so far. We drivers are getting a pay hike, as are drivers all over of course, but Ill grant that effect is higher in the UK. A general pay increase will be good if it isnt part of an inflationary spiral. Is the present pay a long lasting thing, or a blimp, as full of hot air as any politician?
.
I do note that the driver shortage, (and present pay blip) isn`t being claimed as a Brexit plus by Johnson though. Do you think it is? Or is it something that would have happened (more or less) anyway?
.
There: I managed a post without petty name calling. Would you like to attempt one now?
Franglais:
“Despite everything”? Go on then. Make a list of the great successes so far.
So “the reversal of 15 years of wage stagnation caused by competition with workers from post-Communist economies” isn’t enough for you?
You’d think differently if you were a truck driver.
Franglais:
“Market forces” act in…markets…
The EU had an issue with a large amount of newly mobile workers in 1989 when the Iron Curtain fell. What would have happened if the West had refused all of those well armed and poorer neighbours any hope of access to the EU markets?
The EU expanded quicker than would have been planned for and expected… but the alternative would quite possibly have been much worse.
.
Blair made a bad situation worse than it needed to be because? Dunno.
.
(Now the ex East Bloc countries are getting better economies, they are now not so far below the western levels.
So…having paid for this equalisation of the EU economies we leave it…)
.
Now we are to enter a new Global market place. The big sell? Cheaper food and goods.
Cheaper imports mean fewer jobs here. No need to import cheap labour, we just export jobs!
.
Our “market” is changing from an increasingly well paid Eu one to a Global one. I don`t see this ending well for UK workers.
So continuing the pattern of the last 30 years where a lot of jobs were exported to the EU as well as else where
I think that Remoaners such as Franglais should sign agreements stating that they are happy to work for £9.50 an hour, and leave the rest of us to cope with Brexit in our own way.
We had all the “Project Fear” nonsense, the huge recession to come if we voted for Brexit, the massive unemployment, and funnily enough it seems to be the complete opposite. Still, when you just love ■■■■■■■■■■■■ into that blue and yellow flag then I guess no evidence is enough to deter you.
Mazzer2:
Franglais:
“Market forces” act in…markets…
The EU had an issue with a large amount of newly mobile workers in 1989 when the Iron Curtain fell. What would have happened if the West had refused all of those well armed and poorer neighbours any hope of access to the EU markets?
The EU expanded quicker than would have been planned for and expected… but the alternative would quite possibly have been much worse.
.
Blair made a bad situation worse than it needed to be because? Dunno.
.
(Now the ex East Bloc countries are getting better economies, they are now not so far below the western levels.
So…having paid for this equalisation of the EU economies we leave it…)
.
Now we are to enter a new Global market place. The big sell? Cheaper food and goods.
Cheaper imports mean fewer jobs here. No need to import cheap labour, we just export jobs!
.
Our “market” is changing from an increasingly well paid Eu one to a Global one. I don`t see this ending well for UK workers.So continuing the pattern of the last 30 years where a lot of jobs were exported to the EU as well as else where
So as I said:
“Now the ex East Bloc countries are getting better economies, they are now not so far below the western levels.
So…having paid for this equalisation of the EU economies we leave it”
And place ourselves amongst a new group of cheap producers.
Harry Monk:
I think that Remoaners such as Franglais should sign agreements stating that they are happy to work for £9.50 an hour, and leave the rest of us to cope with Brexit in our own way.We had all the “Project Fear” nonsense, the huge recession to come if we voted for Brexit, the massive unemployment, and funnily enough it seems to be the complete opposite. Still, when you just love ■■■■■■■■■■■■ into that blue and yellow flag then I guess no evidence is enough to deter you.
So, no list of victories? No “everything”?
Never mind,
“by Harry Monk » Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:05 pm
No, I’m sorry but I just can’t debate on this level”
Again, never mind, you`ve clearly found your own level.
Franglais:
Harry Monk:
I think that Remoaners such as Franglais should sign agreements stating that they are happy to work for £9.50 an hour, and leave the rest of us to cope with Brexit in our own way.We had all the “Project Fear” nonsense, the huge recession to come if we voted for Brexit, the massive unemployment, and funnily enough it seems to be the complete opposite. Still, when you just love ■■■■■■■■■■■■ into that blue and yellow flag then I guess no evidence is enough to deter you.
So, no list of victories? No “everything”?
Never mind,
“by Harry Monk » Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:05 pm
No, I’m sorry but I just can’t debate on this level”
Again, never mind, you`ve clearly found your own level.
Give it up mate. You are like a loyal Ukrainian peasant standing outside his wooden hovel waving a pennant as Stalin’s motorcade passes by in the 1950s. Belief in the eu is like a religion to you and no amount of everyday, real-life evidence is going to sway you.
I just don’t care. The year of Brexit is also the year of the greatest pay increases I’ve seen in over 35 years in the game.
Perhaps it’s just coincidence? 
Franglais:
Mazzer2:
Franglais:
“Market forces” act in…markets…
The EU had an issue with a large amount of newly mobile workers in 1989 when the Iron Curtain fell. What would have happened if the West had refused all of those well armed and poorer neighbours any hope of access to the EU markets?
The EU expanded quicker than would have been planned for and expected… but the alternative would quite possibly have been much worse.
.
Blair made a bad situation worse than it needed to be because? Dunno.
.
(Now the ex East Bloc countries are getting better economies, they are now not so far below the western levels.
So…having paid for this equalisation of the EU economies we leave it…)
.
Now we are to enter a new Global market place. The big sell? Cheaper food and goods.
Cheaper imports mean fewer jobs here. No need to import cheap labour, we just export jobs!
.
Our “market” is changing from an increasingly well paid Eu one to a Global one. I don`t see this ending well for UK workers.So continuing the pattern of the last 30 years where a lot of jobs were exported to the EU as well as else where
So as I said:
“Now the ex East Bloc countries are getting better economies, they are now not so far below the western levels.
So…having paid for this equalisation of the EU economies we leave it”
And place ourselves amongst a new group of cheap producers.
Look at the figures since the turn of the century the EU is the one major part of the world to show little growth and in many cases stagnation heavily reliant on the performance of a handful of countries take the German, French and Benelux countries trade figures out and the picture is not so rosy. Yes the former Eastern Bloc countries have returned good figures but then they started from a low base and helped by a massive amount of EU cash but as they level up to the west then their rate of growth will slow for exactly the same reason the western economies have slowed, they will want higher wages and higher living standards which will lead to them pricing themselves out and business will just look for the next cheapest option.
This whole concept of “Now-Returning EU drivers” - is based around a false premise:
"That there’s still no jobs for them in their own countries, let alone the possibility of Holland and Austria in particular - poaching, headhunting, and press-ganging drivers all around the Shengen zone for their own purposes…
Would YOU as a EE driver - come back to Blighty for yet another Zero hours contract that could disappear tomorrow, or rock-solid minimum wage contract that you’ll now have to pay taxes on?
…Don’t hold your breath. They left to go back across the sea, and won’t be coming back any time soon.
Brexit worked. ! 
The new “End Game” for this current “Crisis” - will be when firms offer full time contracts that pay the same as what agency are already paying right now.
hum benefits of brexit. overnight farmers were able to use thier land. rather than being forced to compete in a market stacked against them. with in a week of the vote fields were being topped and turned into silage cattle were being bred etc. all the abolished silly eu rules that we wernt allowed to sell fruit and veg that didnt conform to silly regs. Better treatment and rights of the british worker in areas that were controled by ee workers ie logistics, warehouses and factories. wage increases as far as the national minimum goes. not the recent wage increases for drivers but the minimum wage annual increase (50 pence and hour rather than 20)
if you want an example of how wonderful the eu is and freedom of movment is look at spain or italy where migration ran its compleate course and all the migrant workers left to move on to the next sap because they had distroyed the economy.
what i would like to see is all the lies project fear said would happen ie increased inflation etc that hasnt happened.
i stand by for all the posts claiming im talking out my arse or attacking spelling/grammer or accusing me of being racist/sexist because i dared to use the word englishman or some other pathetic reason.
Harry Monk:
Franglais:
Harry Monk:
Give it up mate. You are like a loyal Ukrainian peasant standing outside his wooden hovel waving a pennant as Stalin’s motorcade passes by in the 1950s. Belief in the eu is like a religion to you and no amount of everyday, real-life evidence is going to sway you.I just don’t care. The year of Brexit is also the year of the greatest pay increases I’ve seen in over 35 years in the game.
Perhaps it’s just coincidence?
Absolutely mate, that Stalin reference does sum it up.
I’ve never understood this fetishization of the EU, I find it completely bizarre. But it looks terminal especially considering what’s happening with wages now, and their blind loyalty to a shower of ■■■■ that obviously was suppressing our wages.
Recently I’ve had the biggest pay rise I’ve EVER received, nothing even comes close to it in my working life. And there’s even talk of maybe more to come. Again, purely coincidental of course.
Mazzer2:
Franglais:
Mazzer2:
Franglais:
“Market forces” act in…markets…
The EU had an issue with a large amount of newly mobile workers in 1989 when the Iron Curtain fell. What would have happened if the West had refused all of those well armed and poorer neighbours any hope of access to the EU markets?
The EU expanded quicker than would have been planned for and expected… but the alternative would quite possibly have been much worse.
.
Blair made a bad situation worse than it needed to be because? Dunno.
.
(Now the ex East Bloc countries are getting better economies, they are now not so far below the western levels.
So…having paid for this equalisation of the EU economies we leave it…)
.
Now we are to enter a new Global market place. The big sell? Cheaper food and goods.
Cheaper imports mean fewer jobs here. No need to import cheap labour, we just export jobs!
.
Our “market” is changing from an increasingly well paid Eu one to a Global one. I don`t see this ending well for UK workers.So continuing the pattern of the last 30 years where a lot of jobs were exported to the EU as well as else where
So as I said:
“Now the ex East Bloc countries are getting better economies, they are now not so far below the western levels.
So…having paid for this equalisation of the EU economies we leave it”
And place ourselves amongst a new group of cheap producers.Look at the figures since the turn of the century the EU is the one major part of the world to show little growth and in many cases stagnation heavily reliant on the performance of a handful of countries take the German, French and Benelux countries trade figures out and the picture is not so rosy. Yes the former Eastern Bloc countries have returned good figures but then they started from a low base and helped by a massive amount of EU cash but as they level up to the west then their rate of growth will slow for exactly the same reason the western economies have slowed, they will want higher wages and higher living standards which will lead to them pricing themselves out and business will just look for the next cheapest option.
I`m not sure that the EU has done so badly?
blob:https://ourworldindata.org/542dd433-e2c5-4682-972a-bb9763119a24
And suggesting taking out some countries is alike saying “The UK has done OK, but not well, if you take out banking”.
Of course it will do worse if you take out the most successful parts! And does cherry-picking particular aspects to include or ignore have any real meaning? If so please explain.
Yes, agreed, starting from a lower base will give more scope for improvement.
blob:https://ourworldindata.org/542dd433-e2c5-4682-972a-bb9763119a24
“their rate of growth will slow for exactly the same reason the western economies have slowed, they will want higher wages and higher living standards which will lead to them pricing themselves out and business”
Well, I guess that is true enough, but what to do? Keep wages and living standards down for a better national economy? Im not sure what point youre making here?
" business will just look for the next cheapest option".
Yes, the UK investors are fed up with any increase in our, and EU wages, so they want goods produced without tariffs in the other cheaper countries the UK is now getting deals with…cheaper food from USA and Aus, means less UK produce sold to our current welfare standards, and fewer UK jobs. Widgets imported from India means fewer widget makers in the UK. After the pain of dragging the East Euros up to their present level, we now abandon that new market and go find a cheaper source of labour for the investment bankers that own the pro-Brexit rags and the Tory party?
We dont need to import workers to lose jobs, just import more goods from cheaper sources. The Brexit we have isnt about saving UK jobs, it is about removing barriers to imports from the new investment opportunities of the Murdochs, Barclay Brothers, Greens etc etc