ROG:
Virtually every hospital is saying that bed blocking is causing the system to fail so I do not understand why the money is going to NHS instead of the care system to unblock those beds which would then really help the NHS
Wondering how many politicians have fingers in pies of the NHS (or the private companies they use to manage this situation) versus fingers in pies of care providers…
I can hazard a guess…
switchlogic:
Conor:
cav551:
I have never been so angry as I am having watched this two part series, which finished last night, which focused upon the complete and utter contempt the Filthies Government has for those needing care either in their own home or in care homes.Why only blame the Tories? Labour had 13 years in power and did exactly the same as the Tories did, nothing at all but watch it all go downhill.
The cuts imposed on budgets for care over the last decade and a half
See? You even post the last decade and a half which includes both part of Blair and Browns terms in power yet apparently only the Tories get the blame? Are you aware that what made it considerably worse was Labour closing 26,000 hospital beds from 2006-2010 and piling so much PFI loan debt on NHS trusts so that Teflon Tony could prance about banging on about all the new hospitals Labour had built that there’s still £55Bn to pay with the last payment not due until 2050 and trusts like Sherwood Forest NHS trust spending 16.5% of their budget on PFI payments, money that could be used to spend on care? The £1.2Bn PFI deal set up to build the Royal London Hospital will have cost £6.2Bn by the time it’s paid off and Barts NHS Trust that it comes under is spending £116m a year servicing that debt, over 7% of it’s income.
And this is why the most incompetent shambolic government of my lifetime, possibly anyones keep getting away with being terrible, too many are obsessed with criticising a government and party That’s been out of power for 11 years. Join us in the present- it’s awful I’m afraid but we struggle though. Instead of putting all that writing effort into attacking a government long past maybe more of you need to start questioning the one we have.
Exactly this ^^^^
“Oh you can’t blame we Filthies, just look at Labour’s record from however many years ago”.
And so many fall for this every time. The Filthies have not just let Social Care wither on the vine; they have made the situation worse and deliberately cut social care funding. But we are all supposed to believe the mantra that they are planning some £10 Billion increase in spending … which when analysed comes down to only £1.6 Billion for social care at a later date because the rest is going to the NHS. And the relief to those paying for their own care? … that has to wait until 2023… by which time many of them will have died.
FILTHIES.
Franglais:
Want to look at Gov expenditure on the NHS?1995 Blair enters power. By 2000 the following 5 years it is up to 7.2%. About 50% more than Thatcher gave the NHS.
It rises through the Labour years up to 2010, when it actually drops a little from it`s height of 9.9%, to later rise gently to 10% with Cameron.
Now deduct what they’ve had to pay out in Labours PFI spending spree. Certainly in the case of Sherwood Forest Trust the increases they got didn’t even cover how much of their budget they were paying out in PFI loan payments.
Conor:
Franglais:
Want to look at Gov expenditure on the NHS?1995 Blair enters power. By 2000 the following 5 years it is up to 7.2%. About 50% more than Thatcher gave the NHS.
It rises through the Labour years up to 2010, when it actually drops a little from it`s height of 9.9%, to later rise gently to 10% with Cameron.Now deduct what they’ve had to pay out in Labours PFI spending spree. Certainly in the case of Sherwood Forest Trust the increases they got didn’t even cover how much of their budget they were paying out in PFI loan payments.
From where we are now, it is clear that PFI wasn`t a good idea.
From what was said then, firstly by the Tories, and then by Labour, there were no big warnings against it was there?
Since Major started it, are you suggesting a later Tory administration would have acted significantly differently than the extant Lab one?
The left wing of the Lab party and Unions were not in favour of it. Maybe you think that a more Left Wing Gov would have been better then? Get more tax in earlier to fund the facilities needed after the stagnation of the Thatcher years?
Franglais:
Conor:
Franglais:
Want to look at Gov expenditure on the NHS?1995 Blair enters power. By 2000 the following 5 years it is up to 7.2%. About 50% more than Thatcher gave the NHS.
It rises through the Labour years up to 2010, when it actually drops a little from it`s height of 9.9%, to later rise gently to 10% with Cameron.Now deduct what they’ve had to pay out in Labours PFI spending spree. Certainly in the case of Sherwood Forest Trust the increases they got didn’t even cover how much of their budget they were paying out in PFI loan payments.
From where we are now, it is clear that PFI wasn`t a good idea.
From what was said then, firstly by the Tories, and then by Labour, there were no big warnings against it was there?
Since Major started it, are you suggesting a later Tory administration would have acted significantly differently than the extant Lab one?
The left wing of the Lab party and Unions were not in favour of it. Maybe you think that a more Left Wing Gov would have been better then? Get more tax in earlier to fund the facilities needed after the stagnation of the Thatcher years?
The UK electorate have made it clear in election after election that they don’t want to pay more in tax so now cannot complain at underfunded services. Yes I know whenever asked in public they all say they’ll happily pay more but the ballot box says differently.
Mazzer2:
The UK electorate have made it clear in election after election that they don’t want to pay more in tax so now cannot complain at underfunded services. Yes I know whenever asked in public they all say they’ll happily pay more but the ballot box says differently.
Very true.
.
We each individually know (probably) that more tax is needed to pay for better hospitals. Yet when we have politicians telling us otherwise, have news sites (owned by the rich who get expensive private care anyway) saying otherwise, there is a background where even obvious truths get to seem wrong and against the accepted norm. Having politicos telling us “no extra tax” and “better hospitals” at the same time, having huge swathes of the press failing to point out the clear stupidity of that, there is some strange “feeling” that maybe our individual view is wrong and maybe Mr **** can really deliver more for less?
“No more taxes” and “the NHS is safe with us” from the same party? Obvious crap! Yet human wishful thinking (in spite of history proving otherwise) means the same old liars are voted in again and again.
(I`m trying to avoid be too partisan here)(might not be succeeding)
Franglais:
Mazzer2:
The UK electorate have made it clear in election after election that they don’t want to pay more in tax so now cannot complain at underfunded services. Yes I know whenever asked in public they all say they’ll happily pay more but the ballot box says differently.Very true.
.
We each individually know (probably) that more tax is needed to pay for better hospitals. Yet when we have politicians telling us otherwise, have news sites (owned by the rich who get expensive private care anyway) saying otherwise, there is a background where even obvious truths get to seem wrong and against the accepted norm. Having politicos telling us “no extra tax” and “better hospitals” at the same time, having huge swathes of the press failing to point out the clear stupidity of that, there is some strange “feeling” that maybe our individual view is wrong and maybe Mr **** can really deliver more for less?
“No more taxes” and “the NHS is safe with us” from the same party? Obvious crap! Yet human wishful thinking (in spite of history proving otherwise) means the same old liars are voted in again and again.(I`m trying to avoid be too partisan here)(might not be succeeding)
Excellent shifting the blame post always everybody eles’s fault except the people who vote in the politicians so basically anyone who votes Tory is a brainwashed idiot and anyone who votes Labour is a free thinking intelectual the left is just as good at brainwashing as the right
Mazzer2:
Excellent shifting the blame post always everybody eles’s fault except the people who vote in the politicians so basically anyone who votes Tory is a brainwashed idiot and anyone who votes Labour is a free thinking intelectual the left is just as good at brainwashing as the right
Well, maybe youre right: So long as most papers dont scrutinise and criticise, and voters keep saying yes, we can`t blame poor ole Boris for telling lies can we? He is the true victim here after all. Fancy me criticising him, sorry Mr Johnson.
What is your next post to be? Victims of fraud should be locked up for encouraging deception?
Anyway, more on track a House Of Lords committee has been speaking about any TransPacific deal with the UK.
.
It is a cross party committee, so should be above any petty squabbles. Certainly “less” even of not “none”.
committees.parliament.uk/commit … committee/
They are saying there might be pluses attached to such a trade deal, but there are certainly risks to medicines and costs for the NHS, as well as possible changes in food standards. Signing a deal will take a lot away from National control.
.
We won`t be getting a referendum on this, and I doubt the “popular press” owned by the rich, with fingers in many pies will be looking tooo closely, but how the Gov react is an indication of their true support for the integrity of the NHS.
.
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59365729
So last night’s vote confirmed the utter contempt the Filthies have for you, yes you, and your parents or children. If you really think this won’t affect your family at some point in the future then you are living in cloud-cuckoo-land. The link quotes the Filthies’ manifesto pledge that: “no-one will have to sell their house in order to pay for care”. Think your loved ones, or you, are going to shuffle off with a nice heart attack and it’ll all be over quickly? You’ll be lucky. For so many it will be watching you or they slowly disappear into another world as dementia kicks in, and eventually the family cannot cope with the physical demands of their 24-hour care needs. That will be when reality strikes home. Remember the so called “Support” doesn’t start until October 2023, that is just under two years away; there is plenty of time for you to find out. And the £86,000 cap, that’s a lie too It doesn’t include the cost of accommodation in a care home, yes you won’t have to pay £1500 plus a week - just £200 That is of course if the assets don’t exceed £100K…in 2023. Got Mum or Dad lined up for a home nearby which you are happy with? wait until you are asked for top-up fees if you want them to stay there rather than be moved somewhere cheaper and further away.
While overall the comments have been about NHS funding, the lack of funding allocated to Social Care will affect a significant number of contributors to this forum. The truth of it is that the Government is taking the ■■■■ out of you. They are relying upon your love for family members ensuring that they can remain in power by brainwashing you into thinking that there is no need for you to pay more tax to pay for social care (and many other things). A culture of ageism is being promoted with the message that the elderly has a fortune stashed away and have had brilliant lives.
For decades various Governments (of all Parties) have told us that our National Insurance Contributions were to pay for our pensions and our care in old age as well as the NHS. In recent years we have been drip-fed to believe that the opposite is true and that we, the current workforce, are (unfairly) required to pay for the pensions and care of the elderly. We are told that we are living longer so need to work until we are older. That is fine for those in good health and not in physically demanding jobs. For many, and that includes drivers, they are in either physically demanding jobs or jobs which they cannot necessarily continue doing once advancing years begin to affect their abilities. Yes, handball is not a major feature of a driver’s life anymore, but many must drag cages on and off the vehicle, many have to struggle with vehicle curtains in windy conditions or climb into the back of trailers, most have to secure the load in some way or other.
We have just had our annual Remembrance Commemoration Services when we honour not just our War Dead but those injured in the service of the nation. The Politicians have bathed in the reflected glory of photo opportunities showing sombre clothing, bowed heads and a Poppy. Yet it includes these injured with whom they are so keen to be associated who require the social care they do not want to finance.
To return to how it is likely to affect you. Either you, your partner, parent, grandparent, relative or sadly your child is likely to require care; some will be lucky: so many will not be. As mentioned, the Government is taking advantage of those requiring care, their relatives and those providing the care. Councils are not allocated enough money to meet all the requirements which come under the heading of a Social Care Budget. The only way for them to ensure their legal responsibilities are met is to shift the financial burden onto another party ie you. While care Homes and Care Provision in the Home Services are seen as extremely profitable businesses, this is only made possible at the physical and financial expense of their staff and their clients. The staff suffer with low pay, long hours and a physically and emotionally challenging working conditions. As mentioned in the Ed Balls programme, those providing care in the home are paid a pittance for the use of their own vehicle neither are they paid for their travelling time. The clients suffer physically because they don’t receive the level of care they need, because the staff wages are too low to attract the number of people required. Financially the residents who have to self- fund suffer because they have to pay way in excess of the fees due for the actual care received, to make up for the shortfall between the council’s discounted rate from cost for those it pays for, against what the provider needs to care for the council’s referrals. In other words, the self-funders subsidise those the council social services have to pay for and an additional percentage to cover other social services care expenses.
Brought up by a single mum who managed somehow to own her own house or flat?
As Above.
The poorer will pay relatively more than the richer. The opposite of progressive taxation.
news.sky.com/story/care-cost-ca … d-12475985
Shouldnt those who are most able to look after themselves, be expected to do so? Even the Telegraph and the Sun say pretty much the same, it isnt reporting bias.
Well done to the Tory MPs who voted against the whip.
Franglais:
Well done to the Tory MPs who voted against the whip.
This has…
Always confused me about our alleged democracy. The whips who say tow the line or you’re in trouble therefore our elected representatives are coerced into voting for things that perhaps many members of their constituency disagree with.
Perhaps my understanding of how voting in parliament is undertaken, is lacking.
As an aside I see Lord Frost is now pontificating on Social Care and Taxes.
Dont like him? Dont like this Cabinet Minister taking running the Brexit talks, and taking such a prime role in the UKs future? Isnt it up to the electorate to get rid of him at the next election?
If only!
yourhavingalarf:
Franglais:
Well done to the Tory MPs who voted against the whip.This has…
Always confused me about our alleged democracy. The whips who say tow the line or you’re in trouble therefore our elected representatives are coerced into voting for things that perhaps many members of their constituency disagree with.
Perhaps my understanding of how voting in parliament is undertaken, is lacking.
A bit like the argument in 2nd jobs for MPs?
If you don`t like your local MP you can vote him/her out.
Fair enough, but parties select their local candidates, so if you want party X to be in Gov you are stuck with the individual candidate they provide, good or bad.
No system is perfect of course, but ours seems to have more problems than some others. It worked well enough when Parliament was a day or two`s ride from the seat, but is it fit for today?
I think the convention is that an MP must follow the whip on issues in the party manifesto: since you were elected on that ticket, you must stick with it.
A promise “we will level up” etc is open to interpretation of course. Are there any “plans” as opposed to “wishes” here, for instance?
conservatives.com/our-plan
Fair to say that no early 2019 manifesto would survive COVID unharmed though.
It comes…
Down to the old adage ‘you can’t please all of the people all of the time but, you can please some of the people some of the time’.
yourhavingalarf:
It comes…Down to the old adage ‘you can’t please all of the people all of the time but, you can please some of the people some of the time’.
Some of us have an extraordinary talent for upsetting (almost) everyone though!
I’m puzzled as to why we’ve not heard a serious “Alternative” from Labour as of yet… Plenty of “The Tories have got it wrong” - but no replacement system propoposed in the last few months, other than “Raise taxes for people that are least likely to ever need care themselves”…
Labour voters - are the most likely to need care in the future, and Labour voters - are the most likely to be working within the care system… So hows abouts taxing the Champagne Socialists to pay for it all then? You know - the ones that can afford BUPA and bypass the NHS outright, the ones that can use accountants to offset their 45% taxes down to 12%, - the ones that never seem to have any ideas on how to pay for anything OTHER than “Tax the working population”…?
“Borrow it from China” - is NOT an option btw.
The damned CCP have got their hooks into our very lives enough as it is, thanks! 
