Actually I’m exaggerating when i say everyone was doing that. But you get the point
ROG - while I agree that something practical would be of more use, there are infinitely better ways that trainers can make their classes better and of more value. I definitely like your idea of assessing drivers, could this be done online?
Firstly the value of a course lives and dies by the trainer. If they say listen “listen lads/lasses, we all know this is ■■■■■■■■, so let’s just get through this together, and we can all ■■■■ off after 5 hours.” Then as far as I’m concerned they have sold themselves short to everyone in the room, because if they think what they are teaching is crap then so will everyone else.
Secondly a 7 hour DCPC day is a bloody long time for one person to talk at students for. So why not have 2 trainers to do each day, one for the morning 3.5 hours, one for after?
I’ve said it before, doing a load security course, would not be hard to make practical. Put a table in the centre of the room as a trailer/rigid bed, and you could have all sorts of mocked up cages/trolleys/boxes/pallets/bags, with various weights written on the side to simulate different kinds of loads. You could have endless fun rearranging/securing the load in different scenarios. All of this to be done by the guys taking the course to keep them involved with the trainer merely calling out the conditions of the various scenarios.
An hours/regs course should not be looking at endless slides that consist of clicky slides with a question such as “after 4.5 hours driving, how long should your break be?” pregnant pause, room full of sighs click answer “45 minutes”
Make it relevant to the people in the room. Ask them about THIER shift patterns, start times and make it clear that no one in the room is from DVSA and no-one will ■■■■ in your mouth if you find you are doing something wrong. Any trainer should know the regulations inside out, so this shouldn’t be a problem. Show people the maximums and nuances associated with WTD and how it sits hand in hand with the drivers hours regulations. But use real world examples to keep things RELEVANT to the drivers sat in front of them currently.
I’ll shut up. I’ve got plenty of other ideas but I fear thus post is already too long and boring.
F-reds:
I definitely like your idea of assessing drivers, could this be done online?
Everyone to have a copy of Euro Truck Simulator on their PCs, right?
ROG:
more to the point - how many out there did not get what they really needed because they were not assessed to see what they did need?
Until we get a system where drivers are assessed to see what they do or do not need then the whole thing is virtually pointless
Absolutely spot on, why should I have to listen to a lecture on for eg. load restraint, sat next to a lad that has just passed his test 6 months ago, I have never lost any type of load in the last 35yrs, so I am obviously doing something right. Better to let me put my money where my gob is, and if proved incompetent at it or at the rest of it… THEN teach me.
I also think there should be a similar driving assessment to eradicate the ■■■■ poor truck driving we witness every day as I said on my "dcpc missed opportunity’ thread.
Thanks ROG for a bit of common sense at last on this ■■■■■■ subject that is continually discussed to death on this forum.
I’m not against the idea of assessments in principle, but who exactly is going to do the assessments, who’s going to pay for them, and if it’s decided that an on-road course is needed who pays for that.
tachograph:
I’m not against the idea of assessments in principle, but who exactly is going to do the assessments, who’s going to pay for them, and if it’s decided that an on-road course is needed who pays for that.
If the EU/Government’s genuine agenda was REALLY to create a Professionally Competent, Haulage industry as they say, (the less gullible amongst us know that is total ■■■■■■■■), then they should fund a system that is able to achieve that agenda which would prove it’s authenticity.
robroy:
tachograph:
I’m not against the idea of assessments in principle, but who exactly is going to do the assessments, who’s going to pay for them, and if it’s decided that an on-road course is needed who pays for that.If the EU/Government’s genuine agenda was REALLY to create a Professionally Competent, Haulage industry as they say, (the less gullible amongst us know that is total ■■■■■■■■), then they should fund a system that is able to achieve that agenda which would prove it’s authenticity.
Sure but we all know that the DCPC has little to do with genuine training just as we all know the EU won’t be paying for it, so the question stands who does the assessments and who pays for them, it won’t be the EU any-more than it will be the UK government.
tachograph:
robroy:
tachograph:
I’m not against the idea of assessments in principle, but who exactly is going to do the assessments, who’s going to pay for them, and if it’s decided that an on-road course is needed who pays for that.If the EU/Government’s genuine agenda was REALLY to create a Professionally Competent, Haulage industry as they say, (the less gullible amongst us know that is total ■■■■■■■■), then they should fund a system that is able to achieve that agenda which would prove it’s authenticity.
Sure but we all know that the DCPC has little to do with genuine training just as we all know the EU won’t be paying for it, so the question stands who does the assessments and who pays for them, it won’t be the EU any-more than it will be the UK government.
OK then, I am reluctant to pay anything towards this crap, but my hard earned would be better spent on a genuine system to make us display pro/comp in the true sense, than spent on the waste of good time that it is now.
And we don’t ALL know it is genuine, not mentioning any names (as he will think I have a personal vendetta towards him the amount of times I have slagged him on this subject) but there are those among us that think the dcpc has created Transport Heaven
i think that theory in the classroom works and is important for the periodic training, but i do also agree with others that some practical training would be good as well, what ever way it could be done, possibly 14 hrs of the 35 to be practical training in a yard simulating a company’s yard, even if it was safety around the yard to help combat drivers that are crushed by vehicles etc, or good practice on combating illegal immigrants. (that just a vague idea)
its like the fresh drivers doing the initial DCPC who have to do a theory CPC Case study and then a practical demonstration in the test center with a lorry before receiving there DCPC Card.
there are so many ways it could be improved and made much more effective.
also alot of people complaining about the cost, how much are classes costing on the mainland? in n Ireland i can get a class for around £50 or 7 for around £300 with a company that knows what there talking about (being Ex drivers). i pay for mine my self, and the way i see it is £50 a year isn’t to drastic.
It is pointless talking about dcpc and safe driving, whilst you still have hauliers putting drivers under immense pressure to achieve timed delivery slots, constantly hassling them on cabphones and endlessly have them worrying about fuel consumption rather than keeping their eyes on the road. Tipper companies offering load bonus payments and logistics companies expecting drivers to function with disrupted sleep patterns with silly start times of 1am or 2am etc are all part of a bigger problem out there that affects everyone’s safety on the road.
could not agree more.but i don’t think that will ever change, it should be in the job description now.
Tho im sure not all companies are like that.
LIBERTY_GUY:
It is pointless talking about dcpc and safe driving, whilst you still have hauliers putting drivers under immense pressure to achieve timed delivery slots, constantly hassling them on cabphones and endlessly have them worrying about fuel consumption rather than keeping their eyes on the road. Tipper companies offering load bonus payments and logistics companies expecting drivers to function with disrupted sleep patterns with silly start times of 1am or 2am etc are all part of a bigger problem out there that affects everyone’s safety on the road.
They only hassle you if you allow them to. 
As long as you do the run legally in terms of hours and speed there is ■■■■ all that they can do and if they try you have right on your side at any tribunal, if drivers had more balls and backbone it wouldn’t happen end of.
As for incentive bonuses as far as I know they were made illegal in the 80s for compromising road safety reasons. If the haulage industry needs to clean up it’s image, then it needs to be done on both sides of the fence, and not just the drivers
Certainly the company I mostly drive for isn’t like that. You’re given plenty of time to do a run. I did one on Friday for example starting in Howden with drops in Whitehaven, Workington and Keswick, expected run time 12hrs 15 I think it was.
I was down for a 5am start and booking times for drops no more than maybe 20-30 miles from each other were…
Whitehaven 8am-12pm
Workington 10am-2pm
Keswick 12pm-4pm
I actually went 45 minutes over, taking 13hrs to do the run. Part of that was because I hung back in the yard as the M62 between the M18 and A1M had an overnight closure so there wasn’t much point leaving the yard before 5.40am, the rest because I decided at Workington to take all their empty pallets back so spent a fair while loading up 3/4 of a trailer with stack of empties and boards. And because the run time on the sheet is a guide and not a target I didn’t feel stressed to get back and done by the time on the sheet because I knew you still get paid if you go over.
That is how the job should be, not like that muppet who was complaining about people doing 40MPH on the A66 because it stopped him getting 2 runs in.
Conor:
Certainly the company I mostly drive for isn’t like that. You’re given plenty of time to do a run. I did one on Friday for example starting in Howden with drops in Whitehaven, Workington and Keswick, expected run time 12hrs 15 I think it was.I was down for a 5am start and booking times for drops no more than maybe 20-30 miles from each other were…
Whitehaven 8am-12pm
Workington 10am-2pm
Keswick 12pm-4pmI actually went 45 minutes over, taking 13hrs to do the run. Part of that was because I hung back in the yard as the M62 between the M18 and A1M had an overnight closure so there wasn’t much point leaving the yard before 5.40am, the rest because I decided at Workington to take all their empty pallets back so spent a fair while loading up 3/4 of a trailer with stack of empties and boards. And because the run time on the sheet is a guide and not a target I didn’t feel stressed to get back and done by the time on the sheet because I knew you still get paid if you go over.
That is how the job should be, not like that muppet who was complaining about people doing 40MPH on the A66 because it stopped him getting 2 runs in.
That’s one way how to last the job out when on agency, you won’t feel stressed lol
In Commercial Motor the other week it said what we all know it is down to a money making exercise .40 Million that is what they have had of our hard earned cash so far. As i said on this subject before if the idea had been put to Dragons Den the dragons would have killed each other to invest.
I seem to be one of a few, throughout my working life I have had to do some sort of periodic training, so it is nothing new to me albeit not on such a ridged 5 year cycle. but every time there were regulation changes I had to do a course. Mind you, I also didn’t have to pay for the training that was down to the company to sort out.
I started driving wagons at the end of the nineties, I was in my late 30s then moved to France thinking ah lorry driver can work anywhere! wrong! France had had this system in place for a number of years (mid nineties) and the pass date on my licence was after their deadline for just doing the short FCOS (periodic CPC) I would have had to do the complete 4 week one.
Worked for a number of years in a warehouse and then self employed. I then stumbled on a driving job that was CPC exempt. That was 7 years after I had last driven professionally, there had been a couple of changes to driver hours and the WTD in that time, I had kept a bit of an eye on the changes, however some of my new colleagues obviously hadn’t!
That all changed in 2012, my job fell into the scope of Dcpc/Fcos so I had to go and do the course to be able to continue driving after Sept 2012; this time I was able to do the short course as I was already in work doing the job, my boss just had to give a signed form that I had been in that employ.
I have no idea how the cpc works in general but all 8 of our drivers have attended the course but we all did it in one block, usually in groups of 8/10 seems they don’t really bother with the module one day a year thing here (I might have that all wrong UK wise). Here it is about the same as the UK very informal, the course going off on tangents a lot, but still there was a lot of info I didn’t know had changed (there was probably a lot more but due to french not being my mother tongue I probably missed quite a bit too!) an informal test at the end of the week (I didn’t come bottom of the list 
) best of all I didn’t have to pay for it, that is down to my employer, lunch and wine included 
except driving day of course!
Do most of you guys have to cough up for the CPC training? I did my ADR before leaving the UK the company paid for that (although I did have to give up a few Saturdays though)
So, in general, I am in favour of this system, there is room for improvement, as said in previous posts
I don’t want to get into the rights and wrongs of the driver cpc. I believe it has fundamental flaws as do many others. But I just to pick up on earlier comments. We have a trolley designed to be used to train new drivers in load restraint. This kit is also used for the Initial driver cpc. I also use it during load security sessions for experienced drivers - and it’s amazing what happens. I remember one guy when faced with a ratchet in one hand and the strap in another who was incapable of assembling it. The trolley only utilises chain, loadlock bar, rope and strap. But it’s better than just talking about it and watching a crummy video.
I will just add that experienced drivers with a good attitude are a massive help to the most experienced trainers. None of us know it all - I certainly don’t - so to have a contribution from someone who really knows about a specific task is brill. And that contributor goes home having almost certainly learned something new and helped with the session. That’s surely positive.
Pete