tachograph:
delboytwo:
the way you have put it is that he only needs 15 mins but as he as done 6 hour the brake will have to be 30 mins but can be split in to two 15 mins, as long as he take 15 mins on 6 hours and take the other 15 at least 15 mins before the end of his shift, if only working 9 hours if he works longer than 9 hours he would have to do another 15 mins at least 15 mins before the end of his shift
yes that if is shift ends at nine hours but if he work for 6.hours 30 mins he would have to show a brake of 30 mins IE one of 15 mins at 5 hours and the other 15 mins at 6 hours to meet is WTD 30 mins. 
but if he only did 5.59 no WTD brake would be required
delboytwo:
if you look at the way he posted it implies that he as done 6 hours
Exactly, at which point he needs a minimum of 15 minutes break. At that point there is no way of knowing what the total break requirements will be for the shift. Even the driver in question might not know as they may not be sure how much more work they will do in the day. Certainly they will require another 15 minutes at least but it could be 30. Pointing out that only 15 minutes is legally required at the 6 hour point instead of the 30 minutes quoted in the OP is 100% correct.
ROG:
Thatâs interestingâŚ
So if double manned for say, the first 14 hours of a shift, and then the two split up, the max shift now reverts to 15 hours and not the 21 hours so they can do 1 more hour (rest regs permitting) 
Correct.
ROG:
If that same double manned shift has already got to 15 hours or more and they split, then they cannot do anything else as it has gone over the max 15 for a single driver - is that correct
If the shift has already gone beyond 15 hours they cannot split. They would both have to immediately begin a daily rest period and no other work could be undertaken.
If either of them had used all their allowed 9 hour reduced daily rest periods since their last weekly rest they couldnât split after 13 hours.
delboytwo:
yes that if is shift ends at nine hours but if he work for 6.hours 30 mins he would have to show a brake of 30 mins IE one of 15 mins at 5 hours and the other 15 mins at 6 hours to meet is WTD 30 mins.
Not correct, the âWTD 30 minsâ is for work totalling between 6 and 9 hours it doesnât have to all be taken before exceeding 6 hours.
If he took 15 minutes at 5 hours he doesnât need to take the next 15 at the 6 hour mark. In your example above he could take it at 6 hours 29 minutes work, leaving him 1 minute of work before the end of the shift and preventing him falling foul of the requirement not to take a break at the end of the shift.
You also say âif is shift ends at nine hoursâ but itâs not when the shift ends which affects the amount of WTD break required, it is the amount of work in the shift. You could have a 10 hour shift with 5 hours 59 minutes work and 4 hours 1 minute POA and no WTD break would be required.
Coffeeholic:
delboytwo:
yes that if is shift ends at nine hours but if he work for 6.hours 30 mins he would have to show a brake of 30 mins IE one of 15 mins at 5 hours and the other 15 mins at 6 hours to meet is WTD 30 mins.
Not correct, the âWTD 30 minsâ is for work totalling between 6 and 9 hours it doesnât have to all be taken before exceeding 6 hours.
If he took 15 minutes at 5 hours he doesnât need to take the next 15 at the 6 hour mark. In your example above he could take it at 6 hours 29 minutes work, leaving him 1 minute of work before the end of the shift and preventing him falling foul of the requirement not to take a break at the end of the shift.
You also say âif is shift ends at nine hoursâ but itâs not when the shift ends which affects the amount of WTD break required, it is the amount of work in the shift. You could have a 10 hour shift with 5 hours 59 minutes work and 4 hours 1 minute POA and no WTD break would be required.
yes i understand that you could in theory work for 5 Minâs and have a poa for 8.hours 55 Minâs and no WTD would be required. we could go one and on about that but that not what i am on about it the what the first poster ask
rp1974:
Is it legal to have a WTD break of 30 Minâs after six hours of work, in a moving vehicle, with the second driver driving?
and the fact that tachograph said
The break for the 6 hour rule only needs to be 15 minutes
which is right but for got to say that he would have to sill take an other 15 Minâs be for the 9 hour of work
please note that this an example and should not be taken to heart
can i ask you this do you have to take a 30 Minâs brake between 6 and 9 hour work under WTD
and if you worked for 6 hours and 1 min without taking a brake you would have failed to meed the WTD
these are some examples of brakes take with regard WTD
Examples of Breaks: 3
-
Ă½ hour other work + 4Ă½ hour driving triggers a 45 minute break under European driversâ
hours rules. Another 4Ă½ hours driving triggers another 45 minute break under European
driversâ hours rules. 9Ă½ hours of working under the Regulations would normally require 45
minutes break, but this has already been covered by the breaks taken under the European
driversâ hours rules. Total break time = 90 minutes.
-
4 hours other work + 2 hours driving triggers a break (30 minutes in this case) under the
Regulations. Another 3 hours work (9 hours in total) and another 15 minute break is needed
under the Regulations. There is no requirement to take any breaks under the European driversâ
hours rules as total driving time has not reached 4 Ă½ hours. Total daily break time = 45
minutes.
3 Note: If âother workâ consists of driving under UK Driversâ Hours rules, then additional
break requirements may apply.
-
3 hours driving + 2 hours other work + 1 hour driving will trigger a break (30 minutes in
this case) under the Regulations. Another Ă½ hour of driving = 4Ă½ hours driving, requiring
another 30 minute break under the European driversâ hours rules. This is because the second
half of a split break taken under the European driversâ hours rules (which always takes
precedent) must be at least 30 minutes long. Daily break time = 60 minutes.
-
3 hours driving + 2 hours period of availability + 3 hour other work triggers a break
requirement under the Regulations (30 minutes in this case). Another 1Ă½ hours of driving =
4Ă½ hours driving, requiring a 30 minute break under the European driversâ hours rules. Again,
this is because the second half of a split break taken under the European driversâ hours rules
(which always takes precedent) must be at least 30 minutes long. Daily break = 60 minutes.
NB If all the conditions for a break are met, then a driver could take his mandatory break
during the PoA.
-
The examples below shows two mobile workers A and B both working for 9 hours which
means that their working time must be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling 30 minutes.
The first example complies with the break requirements under the Regulations, the second
does not.
Mobile worker A
6 hours consecutive other work triggers the break requirement under the Regulations. A break
of at least 15 minutes must be taken. Mobile worker A then does another 2 hours other work,
takes a break for 15 minutes and then completes another hour of other work before ending
their shift. This complies with the Regulations as their working time is interrupted by breaks
totalling 30 minutes.
Mobile worker B
6 hours consecutive other work triggers the break requirement under the Regulations. A break
of at least 15 minutes must be taken. Mobile worker B then does another 3 hours other work
before taking his second 15 minute break at the end of their shift. This does not comply with
the Regulations as their working time has not been interrupted by breaks totalling 30 minute.
It has only been interrupted by a break of 15 minutes.
If the mobile workers were to work longer than 9 hours than total breaks for the day would be
45 minutes.
delboytwo:
The break for the 6 hour rule only needs to be 15 minutes
which is right but for got to say that he would have to sill take an other 15 Minâs be for the 9 hour of work
But he couldnât say that because he didnât know how much work was going to be done, it could be another 30 minutes would be required. The way Tachograph worded his reply it is clear he was only pointing out 15 minutes and not 30 where required at that point
delboytwo:
can i ask you this do you have to take a 30 Minâs brake between 6 and 9 hour work under WTD
No, if you take 15 minutes before exceeding 6 hours the next part of the WTD break will be triggered by the amount of work done. Either another 6 hours work is accumulated or the end of the shift is reached, whichever comes first. If you start work at 06:00 and work until 12:00 then take 15 minutes break, the next 15 minutes would not be required until 18:15, if you have taken no POA. A further 15 minutes would be required before shift end in this case.**
delboytwo:
and if you worked for 6 hours and 1 min without taking a brake you would have failed to meed the WTD
Yes, if you started work at 06:00 and went through to 12:01 with no POA then you would have failed to meet the WTD break requirements.
**You aint starting on me with the same thing you tried on tachograph. 
delboytwo:
we could go one and on about that but that not what i am on about it the what the first poster ask
rp1974:
Is it legal to have a WTD break of 30 Minâs after six hours of work, in a moving vehicle, with the second driver driving?
and the fact that tachograph said
The break for the 6 hour rule only needs to be 15 minutes
which is right but for got to say that he would have to sill take an other 15 Minâs be for the 9 hour of work
But the question was about taking the break for the 6 hour rule in a moving vehicle, the total break required for the shift wasnât asked and probably already known.
True I could have gone on much longer and given a more thorough answer but the reply I made was in context to the question asked and was correct.
delboytwo:
please note that this an example and should not be taken to heart
can i ask you this do you have to take a 30 Minâs brake between 6 and 9 hour work under WTD
No but you should take a break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes at some point in the shift, you could take 15 minutes after 4 hours work and another 15 minutes to be completed before the 9 hours of working time was up if that was to be the total length of working time.
delboytwo:
and if you worked for 6 hours and 1 min without taking a brake you would have failed to meed the WTD
Technically true but no-ones disagreeing with that
Coffeeholic:
delboytwo:
The break for the 6 hour rule only needs to be 15 minutes
which is right but for got to say that he would have to sill take an other 15 Minâs be for the 9 hour of work
But he couldnât say that because he didnât know how much work was going to be done, it could be another 30 minutes would be required. The way Tachograph worded his reply it is clear he was only pointing out 15 minutes and not 30 where required at that point
delboytwo:
can i ask you this do you have to take a 30 Minâs brake between 6 and 9 hour work under WTD
No, if you take 15 minutes before exceeding 6 hours the next part of the WTD break will be triggered by the amount of work done. Either another 6 hours work is accumulated or the end of the shift is reached. If you start work at 06:00 and work until 12:00 then take 15 minutes break, the next 15 minutes would not be required until 18:15 if you have taken no POA. A further 15 minutes would be required before shift end in this case.**
delboytwo:
and if you worked for 6 hours and 1 min without taking a brake you would have failed to meed the WTD
Yes, if you started work at 06:00 and went through to 12:01 with no POA then you would have failed to meet the WTD break requirements.
**You aint starting on me with the same thing you tried on tachograph.
i have found this it may explain my point
A: Breaks requirements under the Regulations are triggered by the amount of working time
that is performed, rather than the length of shift or attendance time see example 4). In
addition, there is nothing to prevent a mobile worker taking a break in the middle of a period
of availability, as long as they meet all the appropriate requirements for taking a break, and
that breaks are recorded separately for enforcement purposes.
delboytwo:
i have found this it may explain my point
A: Breaks requirements under the Regulations are triggered by the amount of working time
that is performed, rather than the length of shift or attendance time
Which is what I said a couple of posts ago.
Rather than explain your point it simply confirms what Tachograph said in his reply. The OP never mentioned how much work would be in his shift so Tachograph couldnât really say much more than confirming a WTD break can be taken in a moving vehicle and pointing out only 15 rather than 30 minutes is required at the 6 hour point. Anything else regarding whether 15 or 30 minutes more would be required, and when it must be taken, would have been guesswork on his part. If he had said another 15 minutes would be needed, as you wanted him to say, that would have been incorrect if more than 9 hours work was done.
Thanks all for your answers.
