If one is unpaid, then surely we all must still show a 15 minute lead-in before commencing driving duties? “Showing your walkaround checks on the digicard”.
If you arrived at work at say, 9am, put your card in at 09:15am, and didn’t manual-entry the first 15 minutes, then you MUST show 15 minutes “stationary” before moving off no earllier than 09:30 - the way I read the system.
So given that, - why do your walk-around checks from 08:45-09:00 “unpaid” OR 09:00-09:15 “also unpaid”, assuming you clocked you card on at 09:15 the moment you put it in?
… If the idea is to “give yourself an extra 15-30 minutes so you don’t run out of time today, expecting to be close to 15 hours” - then bigger bloody fool you, for aiding and abetting your transport office to “Bend the rules and laws” - at YOUR expense, because you’re losing at least 15 minutes pay, and YOUR risk, because if VOSA check your card one day, and you’ve put a start time of 09:15 but your actual clock-in at work card says you were there at say, 08:43, then you are BUSTED if you then attempt to pop your card at 15 minutes past midnight - only to not leave the yard until maybe another 15-30 minutes after that… Congratulations. You’ve just shown 15 hours on your digicard, but have been at work for 16 hours, which is bent!
…All it takes is for an audit comparing “turn up/book off at office” times or “turnstile data” - with “Manual Card Entries”, which I got told "should not be astray more than 10-15 minutes from each other TOPS. VOSA have access both sets of data, should they ever do an audit of the yard in question of course, and we’ve already heard stories of how even high-profile outfits like Stobarts - have lost their individual yard O licence for a while - because of FAILING these “Audits”…
Winseer:
If one is unpaid, then surely we all must still show a 15 minute lead-in before commencing driving duties? “Showing your walkaround checks on the digicard”.
If you arrived at work at say, 9am, put your card in at 09:15am, and didn’t manual-entry the first 15 minutes, then you MUST show 15 minutes “stationary” before moving off no earllier than 09:30 - the way I read the system.
So given that, - why do your walk-around checks from 08:45-09:00 “unpaid” OR 09:00-09:15 “also unpaid”, assuming you clocked you card on at 09:15 the moment you put it in?
… If the idea is to “give yourself an extra 15-30 minutes so you don’t run out of time today, expecting to be close to 15 hours” - then bigger bloody fool you, for aiding and abetting your transport office to “Bend the rules and laws” - at YOUR expense, because you’re losing at least 15 minutes pay, and YOUR risk, because if VOSA check your card one day, and you’ve put a start time of 09:15 but your actual clock-in at work card says you were there at say, 08:43, then you are BUSTED if you then attempt to pop your card at 15 minutes past midnight - only to not leave the yard until maybe another 15-30 minutes after that… Congratulations. You’ve just shown 15 hours on your digicard, but have been at work for 16 hours, which is bent!
That is how I saw it …You cant do a walkaround without recording it so it defeats the purpose
…All it takes is for an audit comparing “turn up/book off at office” times or “turnstile data” - with “Manual Card Entries”, which I got told "should not be astray more than 10-15 minutes from each other TOPS. VOSA have access both sets of data, should they ever do an audit of the yard in question of course, and we’ve already heard stories of how even high-profile outfits like Stobarts - have lost their individual yard O licence for a while - because of FAILING these “Audits”…
I can’t work out where ‘your mates’ unpaid hours come from.
I like to start early, I hate being late & I frown upon those that often are.
I’m salaried, contractually I’m paid for the equivalent of 45hrs pw, I like to start as early as I can because I likes to finish as early as I can. You could say I’m working for an early finish. My start time is governed by things like "what time I can actually get in the yard (we not all 24/7 you knows) & what time my first drop is open (again, not everyone is 24/7).
The only thing that upsets me is when the minimum wage planning monkey tries to look good by bunging an extra drop or GOD FORBID a 2nd run on me. I’m working for an early finish, not to give a ■■■■■■ a reason for its existance.
So, in what linear circumstances is ‘your mate’ working for nowt? Because what you describe just doesn’t make any sense to me, if he starts early then he must also finish early.
whatever floats your boat would be my answer.
That said we have moved from a paper daily walk round check to one now done on the company provided mobile phone . I would have/ may have done the paper walk round possibly up to an hour before the start of the card when I was out tramping (shoot me now ) out of boredom coming to the end of an 11 hr break. The one we now do on the mobile phone records to the exact second when you push the screen and after this was brought to my notice walkround checks are now never done before the card is put in and usually at least 4 - 5 minutes after the card goes in . No point shooting yourself when a DVSA inspection shows your doing your walk round checks 10/20/30 minutes before you say you started your shift .
My practice has always to be at work around 15 minutes early, clock in, get keys and work for the day, do checks, fill in defect books, card in, wander off for the 15 minutes lead in time to drink coffee, chat and attend to my ‘daily movement’, which often can lead to a 25 minute lead in time on the tacho. Go off, do the days work, get back, fuel up, debrief, drink more coffee and chat for the 15 minutes lead out time (which again can be around 25 minutes) return to vehicle to get card, keys on hook, clock out, clear off home. No manual entry needed as I’m in my car no more than a couple of minutes after taking the card out.
At the main depot a new manager is trying to stop those that turn up on time, get days work and keys, find vehicle, card in, checks and then stand around drinking tea/coffee and chatting well after the 15 minute lead in time. I don’t get hassled, they do, works well for me.
The-Snowman:
Company im working for just now is running trunks to Manchester. Its not a bad gig. 1800 start, finished by half 4ish if the trailers are ready when we get down there.
Recently though, a guy has started who comes in at half 5 “to do his checks” as he likes to “check out the motor in case of any issues”. There rarely is and he’s off down the 74 by quarter to 6.
What’s the general consensus?
Me personally, my start time is 1800 so ill be in the transport office at 1800 to get the keys etc. If there’s any issues then they get brought up when I get to the motor and start doing my checks at that time and fixed when I’m on the clock, not in my own time just so I can be driving by 6.
This particular guy also takes a 15 on the way down and then sticks it on break as soon as the kingpin is locked on the trailer he’s bringing back up the road. He hooks up on break, sits till 31 mins then hammers back and gets finished by half 3 (or thereabouts)
Now if he wants to do himself out of hours, work unpaid and hook up through his break then that’s up to him but I’m just wondering if it’s me being awkward by refusing to start any earlier and work unpaid or if its common?
*This isn’t a moan, whinge or thinly veiled attempt at having a go at someone. I’m genuinely curious if many people do his version or mine? Ive seen drivers do checks etc before their start time but this is the first time ive seen someone who makes it habit (It’ll soon become a moan though if the bosses clock how they’re saving money on his agency wages and start expecting the rest of us to follow suit. Its a good paying gig for good hours and I don’t want to have to give it up)
It could be something as simple as him wanting to get down the road before they start closing it for roadworks . Or it could be that he’s on job and knock so is the first one out of Manchester with the first trunk back . I used to come in half an hour or so earlier than my start time to avoid the night closures but my crafty plan was often scuppered by the trailer not being ready .
I used to do a Northampton night trunk from Leeds to Lodge Farm on a shift rate and I could make Tuffnells drivers look like the pinnacle of professionalism on the M1 some nights. With white units and trailers, cars doing 40mph alongside each other in lanes 1 and 2 in the 50mph roadworks sections were little more than a minor irritation when there was an empty lane 3 available **. Managing to make it past J30 before the police rolling roadblock started at 8pm for the cone boys was a top priority, as was making it past J20 before they closed it there at 9.30pm. Getting there first ensured I got the first trunk back to Leeds which was invariably loaded and ready to go when I got there so 15 mins on break while I topped up the AdBlue then 30 mins on break while I hitched up, strapped up and curtained up the trailer, 15 min natter and coffee with the only other English driver from one of the other satellite depots then I was out of the gate to the Keyfuels site to top up the tank and straight back up the road. Took about 2:40 down there with the traffic but with a clear 428 and no roadworks on the way back the best I did was 2:33. Including tacho break I was often driving out of the yard on my home way within 6.5.hours which worked out at nearly £20 per hour with it being a fixed rate job . My walk round checks consisted of making sure the wheels were round, the lights worked, the mirrors and side windows were crystal clean, plenty of screenwash and that there were no warnings on the dash of any real significance - all things that could either be done from the driver seat or whilst hooking up to the trailer. Took no more than 5 mins tops. More than 5 mins for walk round checks and you’re hanging the job out (and don’t give me the BS about it’s a legal requirement to show 15 mins on your card but that’s exactly what it is - BS).
Whilst this site is mostly populated with herpaderp “duh I’m paid by the hour lololol!” drivers who are Living The Dream and think that 15 hours is a target not a maximum, some of us just want to get the job done and go home to spend time with the family/kids/mrs/whatever, not drag the job out as long as possible simply because you’re paid by the hour. If you’re on job and knock and know there’s no chance of getting another run when you get back then it makes absolute sense to maximise your effective hourly rate by getting your toe down. I strongly suspect the driver in question on this thread will be working to the same rule.
** PS. Don’t try this on the A1 around Newcastle because you’ll smack your driver side mirror on the bridge supports .
Vid:
My practice has always to be at work around 15 minutes early, clock in, get keys and work for the day, do checks, fill in defect books, card in, wander off for the 15 minutes lead in time to drink coffee, chat and attend to my ‘daily movement’, which often can lead to a 25 minute lead in time on the tacho. Go off, do the days work, get back, fuel up, debrief, drink more coffee and chat for the 15 minutes lead out time (which again can be around 25 minutes) return to vehicle to get card, keys on hook, clock out, clear off home. No manual entry needed as I’m in my car no more than a couple of minutes after taking the card out.
At the main depot a new manager is trying to stop those that turn up on time, get days work and keys, find vehicle, card in, checks and then stand around drinking tea/coffee and chatting well after the 15 minute lead in time. I don’t get hassled, they do, works well for me.
Maybe that manager should be looking at leaving out the bit I highlighted in red, rather than the “OK rest of it” - which is pretty much what I do.
(I don’t drink tea or coffee at work, as I don’t like the feeling of busting for a wee when I’m halfway around the M25 later!)
I’m in, get keys, card in, THEN do checks, and making sure I don’t drive out the gate within 15 minutes of starting, even when I’ve got a ready-serviced vehicle parked in front of the out-gate!
I tend to make sure my walkaround checks are on camera as well. Can’t have people blaming me if something like a flat tyre happens whilst out on the road, and some noob manager thinks “I drove out the gate like that”… Walkaround checks on camera - show that I’ve done everything by-the-book, so there’s peace of mind there.
Vid:
At the main depot a new manager is trying to stop those that turn up on time, get days work and keys, find vehicle, card in, checks and then stand around drinking tea/coffee and chatting well after the 15 minute lead in time. I don’t get hassled, they do, works well for me.
You often get managers who get uptight about drivers standing around. When I was a TM in a factory, the other managers would moan because drivers ‘never’ seemed to do any work.
My view is - does a driver do the job to the standard that is expected? If so, it doesn’t matter if he wants a coffee before he faces the M25 or whatever. The only problem is that it looks bad to other people.
Dork Lard:
So, in what linear circumstances is ‘your mate’ working for nowt? Because what you describe just doesn’t make any sense to me, if he starts early then he must also finish early.
Because he doesn’t start getting paid till 5. We don’t get paid from when we arrive, we get paid from when they asked us to start
It’s really not that difficult to work out
Rob K:
Or it could be that he’s on job and knock so is the first one out of Manchester with the first trunk back .
Im pretty sure thats his reason tbh. There are 6 trunks every night but rarely more than 2 trailers ready so I think he just wants to make sure of being able to turn and burn.
Cant hold that against him as it can be a wait if theres nothing. Ive still been down there at half 2 before
To be honest, if my gaffer says start at 6 I’ll usually get there at 5.50, just for the reason I don’t like rushing around to get out the yard and beat the traffic, 10 mins makes little difference but I think it’s the mindset that you’ve got no reason to rush.
Plus why should he pay me to make a coffee before the times he’s asked me in.
When I clock off if the time reads 15:38 I’ll have 15:45 on my timesheet, if I clock off at 15:34 then I’ll put 1530. I think this way it will almost always even itself out
Alfa1M:
To be honest, if my gaffer says start at 6 I’ll usually get there at 5.50, just for the reason I don’t like rushing around to get out the yard and beat the traffic, 10 mins makes little difference but I think it’s the mindset that you’ve got no reason to rush.
Plus why should he pay me to make a coffee before the times he’s asked me in.
When I clock off if the time reads 15:38 I’ll have 15:45 on my timesheet, if I clock off at 15:34 then I’ll put 1530. I think this way it will almost always even itself out
I’m same aim to get to yard roughly 15 mins before start.
By time walked office for keys walked to wagon about right.
I know some who sit in there car wait to spot on the hour. Or sit in there cab wait to tacho turns over inserts card then starts .
5 mins here and there isn’t a problem. Really.
Alfa1M:
To be honest, if my gaffer says start at 6 I’ll usually get there at 5.50, just for the reason I don’t like rushing around to get out the yard and beat the traffic, 10 mins makes little difference but I think it’s the mindset that you’ve got no reason to rush.
Plus why should he pay me to make a coffee before the times he’s asked me in.
When I clock off if the time reads 15:38 I’ll have 15:45 on my timesheet, if I clock off at 15:34 then I’ll put 1530. I think this way it will almost always even itself out
I’m same aim to get to yard roughly 15 mins before start.
By time walked office for keys walked to wagon about right.
I know some who sit in there car wait to spot on the hour. Or sit in there cab wait to tacho turns over inserts card then starts .
5 mins here and there isn’t a problem. Really.
That’s what I’ve heard when “overtime couldn’t be booked, if less than 50 minutes in a day”. You were expected to work up to 50 mins per day for free, then. That’s over over 4 hours per week on a 5 shift working week.
Yet, clock in 5 minutes late, and you could be docked 15 minutes pay at the same establishment.
If my start time is 1800 then that means I don’t get to the transport desk until 1800. 1759 if they are lucky. Then I might be stood there for 10 minutes while I’m invisible and waiting to be given my work. Then I’ll go and search for my unit. Then I’ll do half an hour of checks from when I get to my unit having done a manual entry for other work from 1800.
When I was tramping I wouldn’t come in early to put all my stuff in my truck like some do. If I was starting at 0500 I would get in at 0500 and take my stuff to my truck in works time.
Reminds me when we got taken over by a big company. They stopped 45 mins a day (the old firm didn’t) but they thought a tramper putting in his gear on day one and emptying on last day on the clock was taking the pith.
peirre:
If my shift starts at 05:00 and I happen to arrive at 0445-0450, the card doesn’t go in until 0500
I pretty much always arrive 15 minutes early but in your case I’d do a manual entry to cover the 0445-0500 because I’ll be in the traffic office getting the keys etc. If you go straight to the coffee machine and burn the 15 minutes having a brew and a chat, that’s a different matter.
I don’t leave home until 0430, and get there around 0450, but I don’t get paid until 5am, and any moves I do off the card are 50-100yds max
If you don’t get paid till 5, then the card doesn’t go in till 5 and the truck shouldn’t get moved with no card in. Running to fuel up or find your trailer is other work even if it is 100 yards as you say it is.
I notice that job adverts these days still omit the crappy practices like “not stating wages” or “not stating hours” if the wage seems too good to be true otherwise.
Penny-pinching work practices can take 4-5 hours per week off driver’s lives, if one is not careful.
Salaried therefore encourages “minimalism” then. I find this irritating myself, but the alternative is bending over and taking the 4-5 hours drain on one’s own time “on the chin” (or perhaps somewhere darker…)
Paid by the Hour - on the other hand - encourages people to “take their time” and “not rush about”…
Perhaps the argument in FAVOUR of agency-style “hourly paid” work - is now growing?
I usually try to get in 10 mins early because if there is any traffic I don’t end up late.
I also have to clock in and out but I just clock in whenever sometimes it’s 15mins early other times its 5 mins late. I’m certainly not gonna sit in the car just waiting for it be time…
Alfa1M:
To be honest, if my gaffer says start at 6 I’ll usually get there at 5.50, just for the reason I don’t like rushing around to get out the yard and beat the traffic, 10 mins makes little difference but I think it’s the mindset that you’ve got no reason to rush.
Plus why should he pay me to make a coffee before the times he’s asked me in.
When I clock off if the time reads 15:38 I’ll have 15:45 on my timesheet, if I clock off at 15:34 then I’ll put 1530. I think this way it will almost always even itself out
That’s how we work. If start time is 07.00 and someone is there 06.50 they’ll start doing whatever is needed, or maybe stick their head in the office door for a chat instead; if someone comes in at 07.10, then it isn’t the end of the world. And they do the round up and down thing on the timesheet, occasionally someone pushes their luck and we un-push it
. Or it could be that he’s on job and knock so is the first one out of Manchester with the first trunk back 
.
**. Managing to make it past J30 before the police rolling roadblock started at 8pm for the cone boys was a top priority, as was making it past J20 before they closed it there at 9.30pm. Getting there first ensured I got the first trunk back to Leeds which was invariably loaded and ready to go when I got there so 15 mins on break while I topped up the AdBlue then 30 mins on break while I hitched up, strapped up and curtained up the trailer, 15 min natter and coffee with the only other English driver from one of the other satellite depots then I was out of the gate to the Keyfuels site to top up the tank and straight back up the road. Took about 2:40 down there with the traffic but with a clear 428 and no roadworks on the way back the best I did was 2:33. Including tacho break I was often driving out of the yard on my home way within 6.5.hours which worked out at nearly £20 per hour with it being a fixed rate job 
.
