Do I, dont I

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
21

Dipper_Dave:
Hi Geoff,
your inTo answer titial question simply do your dCPC get a digi card sign up with an agency and you will be working in no time especially this time of year.

I too was out the game for 10 years and found it easy to get back in the swing of things.

Mostly air suspension now so search on this forum for hooking up tips as well.

cheers Dave, got Digi card (dont know why) had one since they came out. dont suppose I will get my old ERF back with the eaton twin split box. drove a hired merc atros (or something like that) auto didnt rate it, suppose they are better now.
As for air suspension!!!
I think im a cave man. lol

22

bambam68:

Dipper_Dave:
Hi Geoff,
your inTo answer titial question simply do your dCPC get a digi card sign up with an agency and you will be working in no time especially this time of year.

I too was out the game for 10 years and found it easy to get back in the swing of things.

Mostly air suspension now so search on this forum for hooking up tips as well.

cheers Dave, got Digi card (dont know why) had one since they came out. dont suppose I will get my old ERF back with the eaton twin split box. drove a hired merc atros (or something like that) auto didnt rate it, suppose they are better now.
As for air suspension!!!
I think im a cave man. lol

Not many auto’s are much better tbh, Volvo / Renault are good, rest are mediocre at best.

Check the expiry on your digi - unless you’ve renewed it, if you’ve had it since they come out, it’s out of date :wink:

Air suspension is a doddle, but just ask, anyone will help you

23

waynedl:
This bit I don’t understand.

It’s not your job to know if haz-chem will put you into ADR or anything

Yeah actually it is your job to know. “secure it and crack on” is the worst advice you could give. The driver gets fine, points, ban.

dieseldave, we’re not talking about when the consignor tells porkies but when a driver loads ADR stuff beyond what they’re allowed to. Pallet networks can be a bit dodgy in this respect. The regs you quoted are nothing to do with a driver taking ADR stuff without certification. They’re about the consignee describing and labelling correctly. It is the job of the driver to make sure that the load he carries complies with any certifications he has or needs for that load.

I second/third whatever the agency route. You get to get back into it and the beauty is if you go to a firm and you don’t like the way they work you just don’t go there again.

24

^^^^ i dont like you at all you self righteous twit

25

Conor:

waynedl:
This bit I don’t understand.

It’s not your job to know if haz-chem will put you into ADR or anything

Yeah actually it is your job to know. “secure it and crack on” is the worst advice you could give. The driver gets fine, points, ban.

dieseldave, we’re not talking about when the consignor tells porkies but when a driver loads ADR stuff beyond what they’re allowed to. Pallet networks can be a bit dodgy in this respect.

I second/third whatever the agency route. You get to get back into it and the beauty is if you go to a firm and you don’t like the way they work you just don’t go there again.

Wrong mate, read above from the resident ADR expert.

How the hell is a driver supposed to know how much of every product he can carry before he goes into ADR? Are DGSA’s redundant in your world??

My advice is sound - now ‘sorry’■■ :unamused:

26

Conor:

waynedl:
This bit I don’t understand.

It’s not your job to know if haz-chem will put you into ADR or anything

Yeah actually it is your job to know. “secure it and crack on” is the worst advice you could give. The driver gets fine, points, ban.

dieseldave, we’re not talking about when the consignor tells porkies but when a driver loads ADR stuff beyond what they’re allowed to.

DD has already explained that the driver does not get fined or points for carrying goods requiring an ADR licence so where do you get your info from?

27

ROG:

Conor:

waynedl:
This bit I don’t understand.

It’s not your job to know if haz-chem will put you into ADR or anything

Yeah actually it is your job to know. “secure it and crack on” is the worst advice you could give. The driver gets fine, points, ban.

dieseldave, we’re not talking about when the consignor tells porkies but when a driver loads ADR stuff beyond what they’re allowed to.

DD has already explained that the driver does not get fined or points for carrying goods requiring an ADR licence so where do you get your info from?

Same place as most of his ‘facts’, la la land aka MMTM or RDC…

As I said above, it was something I worried about when I was doing general and containers before I got my ADR, now, not worried at all.

Even with my ADR cert, I don’t worry about taking haz chem that I’ve been told isn’t ADR without full ‘kit’ or orange plates

28

If you aint told and you aint trained how are you supposed to know?
Sealed loads?

29

Drift:
If you aint told and you aint trained how are you supposed to know?
Sealed loads?

That was my point above Drift.

Even if you see it go on / come off, if you don’t know what you’re allowed to carry and what you’re not and how much of it, you’re going to worry.

Hence my post above to relax the OP

30

waynedl:

ROG:
DD has already explained that the driver does not get fined or points for carrying goods requiring an ADR licence so where do you get your info from?

Same place as most of his ‘facts’, la la land aka MMTM or RDC…

And you know that how?

The ‘fact’ is that many of us on here know DDs true credentials and they are certainly not from where you say they are from

Next time you need to renew your ADR I suggest you choose a course where DD is the tutor

31

ROG:

waynedl:

ROG:
DD has already explained that the driver does not get fined or points for carrying goods requiring an ADR licence so where do you get your info from?

Same place as most of his ‘facts’, la la land aka MMTM or RDC…

And you know that how?

The ‘fact’ is that many of us on here know DDs true credentials and they are certainly not from where you say they are from

Next time you need to renew your ADR I suggest you choose a course where DD is the tutor

I did… I was talking about Conor’s ‘facts’ not Diesel Daves who WAS my instructor :wink:

32

waynedl:

ROG:

waynedl:

ROG:
DD has already explained that the driver does not get fined or points for carrying goods requiring an ADR licence so where do you get your info from?

Same place as most of his ‘facts’, la la land aka MMTM or RDC…

And you know that how?

The ‘fact’ is that many of us on here know DDs true credentials and they are certainly not from where you say they are from

Next time you need to renew your ADR I suggest you choose a course where DD is the tutor

I did… I was talking about Conor’s ‘facts’ not Diesel Daves who WAS my instructor :wink:

I APOLOGISE - I got wrong end of the stick :blush: :blush:

33

ROG:

waynedl:

ROG:

waynedl:

ROG:
DD has already explained that the driver does not get fined or points for carrying goods requiring an ADR licence so where do you get your info from?

Same place as most of his ‘facts’, la la land aka MMTM or RDC…

And you know that how?

The ‘fact’ is that many of us on here know DDs true credentials and they are certainly not from where you say they are from

Next time you need to renew your ADR I suggest you choose a course where DD is the tutor

I did… I was talking about Conor’s ‘facts’ not Diesel Daves who WAS my instructor :wink:

I APOLOGISE - I got wrong end of the stick :blush: :blush:

Lol, no worries. I just re-read your post and can’t see how what I wrote could be mis-understood mind :grimacing:

34

Christ, I cant afford to spit this much beer out laughing, pack it in :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

35

ROG:

waynedl:

ROG:
DD has already explained that the driver does not get fined or points for carrying goods requiring an ADR licence so where do you get your info from?

Same place as most of his ‘facts’, la la land aka MMTM or RDC…

And you know that how?

The ‘fact’ is that many of us on here know DDs true credentials and they are certainly not from where you say they are from

Next time you need to renew your ADR I suggest you choose a course where DD is the tutor

Roger, Dear boy. I think Wayne was replying to self righteous Conor and I also think that Wayne may have taken his ADR with DD, apologies if I have opened my mouth and then put my foot in it, but if you can repeatedly do it then so can I :smiley:

36

lizard:
That all depends on weather you want to sit in a gate house for 8 or 12 hour shifts and sleeping in your own bed every night or doing 13 or 15 hour shifts and sleeping somewhere else most nights.
The other side of things is also, do you want to speak people at a gatehouse as you book them in, or do you want to speak to probably 2 people in a day at your delivery and collection points and put up with the disgruntled customers that blame the drivers for every thing and putting up with the constant knob heads on the roads.
There is only one person that can help you make that decision and that is you.
but remember the 1 fundimental question on your road to your decision. do you really want to do it.
You know we can all gob off on here and do sometimes get our point across but remember after reading all the good stuff and all the negative stuff, make the decision that is going to suit you and no one else.

This is such a short sighted opinion, why do so many drivers think the only option with lorry driving is to tramp away all week and work 13-15 hour days. It is easy to work a sensible amount of hours (more in line with many other industries) that will earn you good money while sleeping in your own bed every night in lorry driving if you’re prepared to look.

37

Conor:

waynedl:
This bit I don’t understand.

It’s not your job to know if haz-chem will put you into ADR or anything

Yeah actually it is your job to know. “secure it and crack on” is the worst advice you could give. The driver gets fine, points, ban.

OK Conor, let’s give this a little thought…

By what law does the driver get “fine, points, ban” please?
A quote such as I gave in my earlier post will do nicely please.

Conor:
dieseldave, we’re not talking about when the consignor tells porkies but when a driver loads ADR stuff beyond what they’re allowed to. Pallet networks can be a bit dodgy in this respect.

I agree that Some pallet networks are dodgy in this respect.

Conor:
The regs you quoted are nothing to do with a driver taking ADR stuff without certification. They’re about the consignee describing and labelling correctly.

Sorry Conor, but you’re well off-beam here.
The Consignor has the responsibility to accurately describe and document the load etc, but the Carrier has the responsibility to carry the dangerous goods correctly, which includes knowing which requirements apply to the particular job in hand.
ADR 1.4.2.2 (which I quoted in my earlier post) has covered that point, but it needs reading with care. :wink:

Here’s the important bit again:

Ascertain that the dangerous goods to be carried are authorized for carriage in accordance with ADR

Conor:
It is the job of the driver to make sure that the load he carries complies with any certifications he has or needs for that load.

That’s the second time you’ve said similar and you’re saying it with such certainty, so where are you getting it from please?
Can you point us to the relevant fixed penalty or any successful prosecution?
How many penalty points does a driver get for unqualified carriage of dangerous goods?

Conor, FYI there are more than 3,500 named UN numbers for dangerous goods, then we have to cover the possibility that a consignment to be carried could be a mixture (or solution) of two or more of them, which gives an almost infinite number of permutations.

Next we’ll consider that there are several hundred “Special Provisions” which can considerably alter the goalposts.
There are also a number of derogations and exemptions that we shouldn’t forget about.

So, in your system exactly how is a driver supposed to know what applies and to what extent?

:bulb: The answer is that an employed driver is NOT responsible for that which the law says is down to the Consignor and the Carrier.

Just for completeness (and to leave you a way out of the hole that you’ve dug for yourself :wink: ) perhaps you’re confusing the responsibility of an owner-driver with that of an employed driver.
The reason for this is that the owner-driver also meets the definition of “Carrier,” but that’s because they own the vehicle.

I’ll completely agree with you on this next point though Conor:

Conor:
I second/third whatever the agency route. You get to get back into it and the beauty is if you go to a firm and you don’t like the way they work you just don’t go there again.

38

Geoff
Give it a go,I had a few years out but then came back to it,its like riding a bike mate you never forget.Most comical thing for me was being agency and getting put into different motors for the first few months was working out how to get them to bloody move soon stopped looking for the gearstick as almost everything is automatic these days.Being slightly older as well you would probably get the nod over a newbie or young buck know it all when looking for work.
In a 14 plate volvo today was like driving a bloody rolls royce or as near to the experience as I’ll ever get.

39

Geoff, I’ve sent you a PM.

40

dieseldave:

nsmith1180:

waynedl:
It’s not your job to know if haz-chem will put you into ADR or anything, secure it, crack on, not a prob.

Yes it is.

In the context of the OP’s question, this is a very small point, but…

:smiley: The way that you’ve written your response leaves only… Oh no it isn’t!! :laughing:

nsmith1180:
If the Vostapo stop you and find dangerous goods on your trailer, then find out you are not qualified to carry them the first question they are going to ask is why did you take the load. If you cant give a good answer and prove that you did everything right, you and the boss will both get clobbered. Him for sending it out with an underqualified driver and you for taking it out with out the qualification.

Both are in the wrong.

Sorry Nick, but waynedl has this exactly right mate.

The legal responsibilities of the various participants in ADR are very clearly written:

ADR 1.4.2.1 says:

The consignor of dangerous goods is required to hand over for carriage only consignments which conform to the requirements of ADR

That means that the consignor is responsible for… the correctness of classification, packaging, labelling, documentation, description etc

ADR 1.4.2.2 says:

… the carrier shall in particular:
(a) Ascertain that the dangerous goods to be carried are authorized for carriage in accordance with ADR;
(b) Ascertain that all information prescribed in ADR related to the dangerous goods to be carried has been provided by the consignor before carriage, …

… The carrier may, however, rely on information and data made available to him by other participants.

A sender (consignor) sometimes tells/writes porkies, so ADR has taken care of that in such a way that the owner of the vehicle (the carrier) is protected from being left to carry the can when a load isn’t correctly declared.

Since an employed driver is an employee of the carrier, the driver’s only real option is to carry out his/her employer’s instructions.
If those instructions turn out to be incorrect (either deliberately or innocently) how on earth is a driver supposed to know how/when/whether ADR applies to any given job? :confused:

The answer to that is that BOTH the consignor AND the carrier are required to have a properly qualified DGSA (or at least access to one) in order to know the legality of any job involving the carriage of dangerous goods.

Having said the above, it’s perfectly possible that a driver might discover some dangerous goods on a vehicle, but if they do, my advice is that the driver should check this with his/her boss and then be guided by the answer given.

:bulb: Consignors and Carriers have needed a DGSA since 01/01/2000 and a driver hasn’t needed to decide whether ADR applies to a job since 09/05/2004.

OK, viewpoint amended, thanks.