Delusional Drivers

[olog_hai]

UKtramp:
Been some pretty interesting answers from some good posters to this topic, also a sprinkling of the idiots. If I were to sum it all up with my experience and knowledge I would add this. If you are an experienced driver that conducts his activities within the law and has consideration for other road users and care about the job, get the loads delivered to a given time scale and in good condition (whenever possible) then you may be considered a professional. If you hate your job and are completely disillusioned by it, then your in the wrong job. Myself I personally love my job, I am not interested in chasing money and giving myself stress, I have seen and experienced that side of the coin. I earn a decent enough living and am happy with my lot, I consider myself a professional driver, my wages however do not reflect my current profession and I am not expendable in the very sense of the meaning. Although we are all expendable.

A fair comment, that.

After too many years in haulage I came to hate the whole game from top to bottom. It is utterly overrun with idiots, whether they be driving trucks, receiving goods, tipping trailers or whatever else. The sad thing is that said idiots generally have no idea whatsoever that that is what they are. To the contrary; they often think that they are god’s gift to whatever job it is that they do, and there is a handful of these types on here who don’t take much picking out for those who have been around the block a time or two. Fortunately for me I had created an ‘out’, which I took, and from my perspective it was the best thing that I ever did. It wouldn’t suit everyone and for those that are happy with their lot driving, that’s fair enough. The only thing I kick myself for was not doing it any sooner.

While I sometimes think ‘once a driver, always a driver’, which is why I still look in on here, I have no intention of piloting a truck ever again unless it’s absolutely unavoidable. From what I read on here about cab cameras and all the other ■■■■■■■■ that has appeared in recent years, along with some of the horror stories like ‘I ran out of time and I was left at the side of the road’ and crap like the firm will take damages out of the driver’s wages, things ain’t getting any better.

Then again, on the thankfully now very rare occasion that I have to share a motorway/dual carriageway with lorries, it quickly becomes very clear why many firms opt for the ‘treat them like children’ manner of management. The number of half-witted numbskulls that are behind the wheel of trucks has to be seen to be believed. They are people who wouldn’t know what forward planning was if it kicked them up the arse and who think that a lorry is to be driven as you would a car. The industry has always had its embarrassing bell-ends who think that there is something macho about driving aggressively, but it seems to have got a lot worse. It’s actually pitiful to see grown men acting as they do; one can only assume that their mental development ceased at about 15 years of age.

[rjan]

Juddian:
Rjan said

‘‘That is always how it actually is with the bosses, however. Workers have in fact been outwitted - that’s why profits are flowing while workers haven’t seen a payrise in 10 years, amongst other things.’’

Not big on reading are they, socialists that is, we’ve had a payrise every year, the staff worked hard, pleased those customers who themselves have grown, plus constant new customers , so the company has grown massively and the staff get good pay rises because the company appreciate the staff they have.

Maybe you have had a payrise, but how does it compare to inflation just for starters? Have things actually got better for all the hard work, or have you just stood still?

And back to the subject of outwitting, how does it compare to the final salary pension you no longer get, or public services that have deteriorated, how does it compare to the cost of housing that has rocketed, or your kids education that now costs a bomb?

If you can truly say you’ve benefitted across the board, then I say good on you, but it’s not the larger picture in the country.

You’re stuck somewhere in the 70’s with Red Robbo, Derek Hatton and the rest of the suicide jockeys, the bosses are all capitalists and any profit is evil.
Profit is a good thing, it allows massive re-investment in equipment and expansion, which means the customer (yes that pesky bleeder again ) gets a better product ever more efficiently, which puts the company ahead of the competition.

If the good thing about profit is purely its reinvestment in the firm, then what is good about bosses who spend profits predominantly on themselves, who hoard cash, or invest in rightwing political lobbying, who acquire profits purely by cutting pay, etc.? Surely there are certain means of acquiring or disposing of profits that you accept are just not beneficial?

As for foreign workers, yes we have a few foreign drivers, two Romanians i work with daily that couldn’t be better or more reliable fellow workers, good lads too, they’re on the same money as us obviously and they too appreciate the job they have, they aint going anywhere and fully intend to retire from this job many years from now.

Excellent, but you didn’t actually address my question about how you’ll respond to undercutting of any kind. It may never happen for you, your firm may even be the undercutters in the market given what you’ve said about its growth, but I’m still interested in how you would propose to respond.

Be my last post to you because i’m losing the will to live to be honest, have a good evening.

Perhaps straightforward observations and questions are a strain to contemplate.

[robroy]

Olog Hai:

UKtramp:
If you hate your job and are completely disillusioned by it, then your in the wrong job. Myself I personally love my job, I am not interested in chasing money and giving myself stress, I have seen and experienced that side of the coin. I earn a decent enough living.

A fair comment, that.

After too many years in haulage I came to hate the whole game from top to bottom. It is utterly overrun with idiots, whether they be driving trucks, receiving goods, tipping trailers or whatever else. The sad thing is that said idiots generally have no idea whatsoever that that is what they are. To the contrary; they often think that they are god’s gift to whatever job it is that they do, and there is a handful of these types on here who don’t take much picking out for those who have been around the block a time or two. Fortunately for me I had created an ‘out’, which I took, and from my perspective it was the best thing that I ever did. It wouldn’t suit everyone and for those that are happy with their lot driving, that’s fair enough. The only thing I kick myself for was not doing it any sooner.

While I sometimes think ‘once a driver, always a driver’, which is why I still look in on here, I have no intention of piloting a truck ever again unless it’s absolutely unavoidable. From what I read on here about cab cameras and all the other ■■■■■■■■ that has appeared in recent years, along with some of the horror stories like ‘I ran out of time and I was left at the side of the road’ and crap like the firm will take damages out of the driver’s wages, things ain’t getting any better.

Then again, on the thankfully now very rare occasion that I have to share a motorway/dual carriageway with lorries, it quickly becomes very clear why many firms opt for the ‘treat them like children’ manner of management. The number of half-witted numbskulls that are behind the wheel of trucks has to be seen to be believed. They are people who wouldn’t know what forward planning was if it kicked them up the arse and who think that a lorry is to be driven as you would a car. The industry has always had its embarrassing bell-ends who think that there is something macho about driving aggressively, but it seems to have got a lot worse. It’s actually pitiful to see grown men acting as they do; one can only assume that their mental development ceased at about 15 years of age.

If UKtramp is in Trucking Heaven then fair play to him, but as for his point about those that are disillusioned ‘being in the wrong job’ how is that so?.
They, like Olog Hai could have been it for years, once loved it, and for all and more of the reasons he pointed out got totally ■■■■■■ with it.

I myself got a bit that way about 8 or so years ago, I had worked for some really good firms, and good payers (and one crap one) for last 20 or so years then. Brit European in Zeebrugge, who I worked for at that particular time, started their cut backs which did eventually lead to them closing a few years later.
I was made redundant from a job I loved, and started for a firm as a UK only tramper, which in terms of t.s and c.s (especially pay) were very much inferior to what I was used to, with a high degree of penny pinching which I found hard to deal with, and had to cut back.
This is when the rot began to set in with me with the job and industry in genersl.

So with that in mind, …then I started to notice more negative stuff, and more so than I previously had.
All the stuff that O.Hai mentioned, …the idiots on the road that were allowed to drive trucks, with all their inconsideration and ■■■■ poor driving techniques, all the increasing H&S crap, all the over regulation in the job, bull ■■■■ like wtd and poa, cameras every ■■■■ where, nowhere to park anymore, until I got totally ■■■■■■ off with it.
I constantly tried other European firms (very selectively btw) similar to Brit Euro, who employed English drivers , just to try and regain some of the enjoyment I previously had on my last job, but no luck.

However, unlike Olog Hai I stuck with it, thinking why tf should I let all these ■■■■ whits that have caused all this crap, drive me from a job that I have done for 30 odd years, and once loved, I did not think ‘‘I am in the wrong job’’ .

So I went into it with a different frame of mind, looked at the positives, just looked, and treat, with disgust the pathetically crap drivers out there amongst us, ran legally… but did not take too seriously all the over regulation in the job, and generally got my head down.

As for that firm I am still there 8 years later.
I just coped by standing up for myself, looking after no1, not giving a ■■■■ what other drivers did, or ever try and compete with them, argue every time over any penny pinching and injustice, did not allow them to push me (however hard they did try) and not start at ■■■■ stupid times, …but at the same time put 100% in to getting the job done.

It worked, and I have now cut my weekly hours down voluntarily to suit ME, I get a Sat noon to Tues am weekend with the Mrs, and am virtually the only driver at the depot with a set job every week.
The pay aint brilliant granted, but I’m fine at the moment with the job, so that compensates for it.
If I had took the view ‘I’m in the wrong job, ■■■■ it’’ …God knows what the hell I’d be doing now.

[rjan]

robroy:
The pay aint brilliant granted, but I’m fine at the moment with the job, so that compensates for it.

The thing is, if you’re at the forefront of undermining good wages, the job will tend to be brilliant for a while, because everything good about it is being paid for by accepting much lower pay.

And then eventually the bad things will bite again but with lower wages than before, or it’ll bite your kids who haven’t even passed the most expensive years of their lives when they have young families and a mortgage that needs to be paid for.

I remember an ex-miner reflecting that he’d never earned such good money on overtime as in the early 80s - and in fact, that turned out to be the high water mark of his entire working life, and his sons haven’t seen anything like it in theirs.

[switchlogic]

Olog Hai:
Then again, on the thankfully now very rare occasion that I have to share a motorway/dual carriageway with lorries, it quickly becomes very clear why many firms opt for the ‘treat them like children’ manner of management. The number of half-witted numbskulls that are behind the wheel of trucks has to be seen to be believed. They are people who wouldn’t know what forward planning was if it kicked them up the arse and who think that a lorry is to be driven as you would a car.

Absolutely spot on. Standards are shocking.

[albion]

switchlogic:

Rjan:
because I’m paying their wages and creating their profits, remember, not the other way around. My work is a key factor in production; their contractual arrangements in which bosses recast themselves as my (and each other’s) “customers” are certainly not a key factor in getting work done.
.

You see this is what I was taking about, lorry drivers thinking they and no one else keeps companies afloat and the shelves stacked. We all need each other, we all work together to pay our wages. Your truck won’t be going anywhere without a planner, a TM, an accountant and you. No one employee is more important than the other imo.

^^ That.

I rely on my drivers to get the load and themselves to the delivery point in one piece and not annoy my customers too much, they rely on me to keep finding them work. I rely on my finance manager to pay drivers, customers and keep the accounts tidy, he relies on me to set the rates and keep the customers sweet. My customers rely on me to keep saying yes I can get that delivered for you, I rely on them to accept my rates. I’m not out to make my drivers’ lives a misery, we all have to work together and if we can manage to make a living out of it collectively, then I’m happy.

As for pay rises, apart from 2009 which was horrendous for us< between 2-3% every year. Being a small firm, no unions involved, far as I know only one of the drivers is in a union.

[robroy]

Rjan:

robroy:
The pay aint brilliant granted, but I’m fine at the moment with the job, so that compensates for it.

The thing is, if you’re at the forefront of undermining good wages, the job will tend to be brilliant for a while, because everything good about it is being paid for by accepting much lower pay.

And then eventually the bad things will bite again but with lower wages than before, or it’ll bite your kids who haven’t even passed the most expensive years of their lives when they have young families and a mortgage that needs to be paid for.

Yeh that’s fair, however I described it as ‘not brilliant’ …but nor is it totally crap either.
I was actually comparing it to my last job, and pointing out that after I had got the job with my present co eventually ‘sussed’ I decided that chasing top dollar again would mean be being away including some weekends, and giving up the good number I had made for myself. It’s around a tenner an hour which is better than some up here, average for the area, ok I’d prefer a bit more, but I am managing it quite fine to date…ok I’ll get the ‘‘Wouldn’t get out of bed for that’’ crew on here no doubt …, but each to his own.

In actual fact a firm in Belgium that I had given up on a few years ago had kept their word and said they would ring me if anything came up and they did, due to the area I lived in. I weighed up the situation and decided I preferred to carry on getting more home time and a relatively easy life.

As for my kids…all grown up now, 3 of them with their own kids, and the 2 lads have both got good well paid jobs, one has moved in to a bloody big house in a select area…yeh we do have those areas up here. .

[honked]

Truck driving is not a normal job.
There, I’ve said it.
It’s not 9 to 5, and no it’s not rocket science either.

What it is, is a versatile role that requires flexibility in start times, 4am 5am 6am is not unusual for drivers.
It requires the driver to be able to deal with and cope with a range of different loads, the abilty to deal with a large vehicle in a busy high st, manoeuvre it in tight spaces and ensure that the driver and the company operate within tight laws and regulations.
Drivers (trampers) do not clock off at 5pm and enjoy family time, they live in a (well equipped nowadays) tin box, with little or no facilities and maybe be expected to become an unpaid security guard for 10 hours.

Yes driving a truck is easy, but that is not what the job is. You don’t empty a box onto a shelf, you don’t write reports or fill in spreadsheets, you don’t even have to till up someone’s shopping. But you have to be professional, be better than a car driver, be considerate and courteous and demonstrate a wide range of skills and attributes that benefit the industry and your customers.

So why should you be expected to work alarmingly high hours, for a straight through rate, with little support and even less respect?

The biggest reason why rates are low is that drivers do not put a value on their time. Overtimes rates are advertised at £1 above standard rates. Night rates are advertised at £1 or £2 above day rates. Night out money is bundled into top line earnings and companies are promoting free parking and free uniforms as a perk!

Jobs are being advertised at minimum wage, only because it would be against the law to pay you less, but they would if they could.

[juddian]

Very good post Honked.

In many ways drivers are their own worse enemas, by focusing only on the take home figure they fail to break down what exactly they are being paid and comparing to how much they really should be getting for 60 or 70 hour weeks, which are still too common in our game and you still read comments here moaning about hours restrictions stopping them doing more.

[uktramp]

robroy:
If I had took the view ‘I’m in the wrong job, [zb] it’’ …God knows what the hell I’d be doing now.

The way I look at it rob is this, we are on this earth with one shot for a very short time. If you hate the job your doing which takes up the majority of this time, then you are going to be miserable for the majority of your life. I am not in driving for the money, as it really isn’t what I would call good money anyway. For me it is a freedom thing, to others this may not be the case. As you have said yourself “God knows what the hell I’d be doing now” well have you ever considered maybe something better? For me driving doesn’t have to earn me a living in the same sense as it may have to for someone else. I have earned what I would consider to be good money in my past, however this did not make me happy, my job does now, as I feel I am now more laid back and relaxed than I have ever been. The truth of the matter is that your well being, happiness & contentment with life is much more important than money & a high flying career ever could be. So if you hate your job and don’t enjoy your work then change it.

[mike68]

Juddian:
Very good post Honked.

In many ways drivers are their own worse enemas, by focusing only on the take home figure they fail to break down what exactly they are being paid and comparing to how much they really should be getting for 60 or 70 hour weeks, which are still too common in our game and you still read comments here moaning about hours restrictions stopping them doing more.

Enema, I agree.

The thing I find quite sad is the driver who only concerns himself with his net pay, the for profit game (for the most part) is the perfect example of this.

As others have stated its not rocket science and is not highly skilled, on the other hand the job is no 9-5 picnic either, the long hours are sustainable as the physical and mental input are of a low intensity, you still have to be in the seat to earn the coin you’re still away from you’re family for days on end and this should command a premium. Drivers don’t seem to value their time on the job as they should, I’m talking about those who use P.O.A to stretch duty time to silly levels.

This is what I think the job is worth obviously regional variations apply, it may sound un-reasonable for some but here goes, all figures are net pay.

Days any 5 from 7 £450 with around 50 hours duty time

Nights any 5 from 7 £550 as above

Tramping 4-5 nights away running in on a Saturday £650 obviously more reduced daily but without excessive duty time.

[robroy]

UKtramp:

robroy:
If I had took the view ‘I’m in the wrong job, [zb] it’’ …God knows what the hell I’d be doing now.

The way I look at it rob is this, we are on this earth with one shot for a very short time. If you hate the job your doing which takes up the majority of this time, then you are going to be miserable for the majority of your life. I am not in driving for the money, as it really isn’t what I would call good money anyway. For me it is a freedom thing, to others this may not be the case. As you have said yourself “God knows what the hell I’d be doing now” well have you ever considered maybe something better? For me driving doesn’t have to earn me a living in the same sense as it may have to for someone else. I have earned what I would consider to be good money in my past, however this did not make me happy, my job does now, as I feel I am now more laid back and relaxed than I have ever been. The truth of the matter is that your well being, happiness & contentment with life is much more important than money & a high flying career ever could be. So if you hate your job and don’t enjoy your work then change it.

Maybe you should read back what I said.
Firstly I don’t need to be told about life’s priorities, I’ve sussed that one out for myself.
If things had gone according to my plans I would now be retired in Spain and my boys would have been running my business, however life chucks ■■■■ up, and it did not go according to plan…, but that’s history and I aint bothered about that anymore, moved on life’s sweet.

I once loved this job when I started.
It slowly turned to crap over the years in comparison to how it was, and the fact that I lost a job I liked and started an inferior one triggered off me noticing it more.
I dealt with it in my own way, and sorted it.
I long passed the keen and enthusiastic stage, and wouldn’t exactly say I was in Trucking bliss heaven at the moment, but neither would I say I hate it, but I’ll settle for contentment …which is a lot more than many have in whatever job they have.
That was my point.

[winseer]

Another facet of “Delusional” are those drivers who really think they’ll never need to be employed by agency, and would choose not to - if that were the last job on earth.

Daft thing is, there is plenty of “bread and butter” work on agency. It just doesn’t pay very well, and the pecking order is such that a newbie to that agency will find themselves way down the list to be asked for the “first twenty lots of 8am monday-friday starts” dished out at the end of the previous weeks… They’ll probably be getting a call sunday (or even early hours of Monday morning!) to come in at 8am and cover some higher-up bod who’s dropped that shift.

In essence, all the things that people moan about with regards to agency are down to (1) Being new there and (2) Not being prepared to be flexible.

Now I happen to hate early starts. So… When signing up with an agency I said “I like Friday nights and Sunday days in particular”. Got plenty of work that way, albeit a lot of last-minute stuff in the early stages, i.e. dropped shifts. It moved me up the pecking order no end of course.

As some others have pointed out on numerous occasions “There’s plenty of work - but even plentier of drivers!”
The shortage to counterbalance that argument - is going to be those drivers with the better records that happen to lean towards nights/weekends/nights out and even the grubbier jobs like animal transport, sewage tankers, etc.

[nightline]

The job is what it is and has been for donkeys years and it is no different from now or then
You put a value on yourself or your skills and you live by that and that’s what gets you decent money and as good an employer as possible
You have to have principles and if someone thinks they are a better driver than you they are not but they have the confidence to think they are and they always do a good job.
You will always have people who will bring down a proffeson be it working for low money and long hours they don’t know any better and never will
As the saying goes the cream always rises to the top

[kr79]

switchlogic:

Rjan:
because I’m paying their wages and creating their profits, remember, not the other way around. My work is a key factor in production; their contractual arrangements in which bosses recast themselves as my (and each other’s) “customers” are certainly not a key factor in getting work done.
.

You see this is what I was taking about, lorry drivers thinking they and no one else keeps companies afloat and the shelves stacked. We all need each other, we all work together to pay our wages. Your truck won’t be going anywhere without a planner, a TM, an accountant and you. No one employee is more important than the other imo.

If the forklift truck driver don’t load your lorry the shelves would be empty.
Come on here and go on the truck groups on Facebook. A quick read of the crap posted proves at least 90% of lorry drivers are morons it’s why I try not to talk to any these days.

[uktramp]

When people overate themselves and think that they are indispensable, that is when they truly become expendable. It is true that if there were no HGV drivers at all, then the country would grind to a halt in the same way as dustbin men or any other task you can think of. This does not apply to one person, HGV drivers are always available, some are 10 a penny, others are worth their wages, but when would there ever become a time when there were none. NEVER is the short answer. You are truly replaceable and very easily too.

[robroy]

UKtramp:
When people overate themselves, that is when they truly become expendable.
.

Is that the case also with ex. Fridge expert guru specialist consulant types.?

[fredthered]

And for all that the thread has so far achieved 8 pages. Did someone say he was a crap journalist? [emoji848][emoji57]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rjan]

kr79:

switchlogic:

Rjan:
because I’m paying their wages and creating their profits, remember, not the other way around. My work is a key factor in production; their contractual arrangements in which bosses recast themselves as my (and each other’s) “customers” are certainly not a key factor in getting work done.
.

You see this is what I was taking about, lorry drivers thinking they and no one else keeps companies afloat and the shelves stacked. We all need each other, we all work together to pay our wages. Your truck won’t be going anywhere without a planner, a TM, an accountant and you. No one employee is more important than the other imo.

If the forklift truck driver don’t load your lorry the shelves would be empty.
Come on here and go on the truck groups on Facebook. A quick read of the crap posted proves at least 90% of lorry drivers are morons it’s why I try not to talk to any these days.

Thankfully that wasn’t my argument. You’re right that almost every job is key. The point in a capitalist economy is that collectively the workforce is expected to render a value greater than the wages they are paid - if they were paid exactly their value, or more, profits would be zero or negative.

Profit is the difference between the pay workers receive for their work, and the value of the work - and it is not always a worker’s immediate employer that is reaping bumper profits, but could be the financiers who lent the firm money to set up, or the firm’s clients (where these represents larger or more powerful businesses), etc.

Another thing that flows from recognising that every job is key, is that every worker should be paid a decent wage for doing it, not the lowest amount anyone will do it for in a market where people are scrabbling to suevive, otherwise you’ll eventually be renting your wives and kids out for the same price as a slum ■■■■■■.

[uktramp]

robroy:

UKtramp:
When people overate themselves, that is when they truly become expendable.
.

Is that the case also with ex. Fridge expert guru specialist consulant types.?

To a lesser degree it is true. Difference being that there is not many fridge experts of my caliber as there are HGV drivers. I am afraid that to be anywhere near my level of expertise takes in excess of 8 years of training then a further 5 yrs in industry to become useful. Now with a HGV driver, you can complete a 10 day course and be industry ready, regardless of how well you can drive. You can still fill a driving vacancy. As a fridge god such as myself we don’t simply grow on trees.