pja666:
Also, sorry coffeeholic and others have minds too lazy to think about this issue - if you think its all ■■■■■■■■ as you put it, why are you even bothering to reply? Got anything constructive to say or are you just a snide jeering monkey? 
Typical of those with a union mentality, someone doesn’t agree with your view and you resort to personal attack. Now tell me again why I should stand shoulder to shoulder and support someone like you? I don’t have problems with any of the issues you describe. I have an easy well paid job, and always have done in 28 years in this industry so I have no reason for strikes and blockades, which could potentially screw that up.
Seriously there is another truck drivers website where they lap this stuff up and talk about it for ever and a day, so maybe you should look for somewhere else in the truckers world where your ideas will be much more appreciated than on here.
billybigrig:
pja666:
wildfire:
from the way i read it that since the abolistion of the closed shop i think you stand no chance of a union starting just for drivers, companies are under no obligation to reconise a union,and as majority of drivers are employed by small operators and not by multi-nationals, there would be no desire to put their employer in a postion where a strike could end up with the business closing and them having no employment. i am sorry to say that wages are set to a level that the employer can afford o.k you might not think that is high enough and you might be possibly right.
but until there is a set level for rates within the haulage industry that no one is allowed to under cut, and that can return a good profit for the company and so leave more avalible for wages, you might as well weee in the wind, i am sorry to say this but it is the brutal truth with the rising fuel costs and the large companies working on a 1% profit margine being able to do work at alot lower rates than any small operator can even hope to get near 
Second paragraph hits the nail on the head for me. Whole point would be to establish set rates which is where I started from on this thread. I dont see foreign operators being able to plug the gap quickly enough in the event of walkout by every trucker in the uk and road blockades to boot. With that kind of power could insist on minimum rates for anyone who worked in the uk, regardless of where their employer was based. Its just another sort of minimum wage innit?
Also, sorry coffeeholic and others have minds too lazy to think about this issue - if you think its all ■■■■■■■■ as you put it, why are you even bothering to reply? Got anything constructive to say or are you just a snide jeering monkey?
Really ■■ After setting a minimum wage which has improved things for a minority and given employers a low target wage to set for the majority ■■
If you set a minimum rate then that becomes THE rate [period] and we will all be expected to work to it. No 2 companies have the same operating costs in terms of buying power and bulk fuel prices, making this grossly unfair across the board. Not to mention how the rate would be set ? Does it cost the same to run a ragsider as say a low loader or a tanker ■■
All setting a rate would do is make the situation worse and the big players richer
Didn’t really think your eutopian haulage plan through now did you ■■ 
Also add the fact the it would, most probably, be classed as anti comptitive and not allowed.
Coffeeholic:
pja666:
Also, sorry coffeeholic and others have minds too lazy to think about this issue - if you think its all ■■■■■■■■ as you put it, why are you even bothering to reply? Got anything constructive to say or are you just a snide jeering monkey?
Typical of those with a union mentality, someone doesn’t agree with your view and you resort to personal attack. Now tell me again why I should stand shoulder to shoulder and support someone like you? I don’t have problems with any of the issues you describe. I have an easy well paid job, and always have done in 28 years in this industry so I have no reason for strikes and blockades, which could potentially screw that up.
Seriously there is another truck drivers website where they lap this stuff up and talk about it for ever and a day, so maybe you should look for somewhere else in the truckers world where your ideas will be much more appreciated than on here.
Exactly the same here. I’ve enjoyed a ■■■■ good living from an easy job for several deacades also All done by virtue of my own abilities, standards and ambitions. I have a brilliant job at the moment working for excellent employers. Should the job or employers change then I won’t sit on my ■■■■ I’ll go, simple. 
Essentially, it’s not in the nature of those who choose to drive trucks for a living to group together in a common interest. It does tend to attract people who prefer to operate independently and the very nature of the job makes united action difficult if not impossible.
Yes, in an ideal world we would simply agree to stop work until we were all paid £45,000 a year or whatever but it isn’t going to happen, never has and never will. All we can do is look forward to the end of recession when many drivers will have retired or left the industry and we become a commodity in short supply, whereupon we might see an improvement in wages, although I doubt we will ever see any great improvement in conditions.
I certainly wouldn’t join any union which supported the Labour party, their unfettered immigration policies over their 15-odd years in power being the greatest cause of the deterioration in wages for working people I’ve ever known, and if I had a magic wand I would use it to wish the Iron Curtain had never been lifted and European transport had not suddenly been introduced to a world of workers willing to spend months away from home at a time for £25 a day.
Well I have to agree with Harry, I worked for the Red coloured company who moved a lot of work over the boarder to have lower wage bill, but the French go bless them when a wall and it was stopped in 2 weeks! but now believe it or not they have a waiting list for drivers from across the boarder to work at the French sites.
The place were I work now there are east European workers working for less money but what should I do■■?
Another thing just look at the nice new trucks these people have now coming over and parking up for 3 to 5 days what I ask is where did they get the money for this??/
wildfire:
but until there is a set level for rates within the haulage industry that no one is allowed to under cut, and that can return a good profit for the company and so leave more avalible for wages,
do you understand how business works?
apply your own logic to other stuff in a free market, what would your attitude be towards it? minimum price for car insurance, tins of beans, football boots and chain saws.
i don’t get why so many truckers get hung up on under cutting, usually when having a pop a fast eddie. now don’t get me wrong i’m not saying it’s going to be nice losing your job to a firm that has undercut your firm, but it’s day one of business school and before the lunch break at that! other sectors have more scope not to rely on price as much, a car manufacturer can build a better looking, faster, more comfortable, more economical car etc to enable them to charge more. getting something from A to B is getting something from A to B, so price is a pretty big factor.
increased competition leads to increased efficiency.
even if more money was left, why would it mean more wages? the supply and demand of drivers sets the wages.
stevieboy308:
wildfire:
but until there is a set level for rates within the haulage industry that no one is allowed to under cut, and that can return a good profit for the company and so leave more avalible for wages,
do you understand how business works?
apply your own logic to other stuff in a free market, what would your attitude be towards it? minimum price for car insurance, tins of beans, football boots and chain saws.
i don’t get why so many truckers get hung up on under cutting, usually when having a pop a fast eddie. now don’t get me wrong i’m not saying it’s going to be nice losing your job to a firm that has undercut your firm, but it’s day one of business school and before the lunch break at that! other sectors have more scope not to rely on price as much, a car manufacturer can build a better looking, faster, more comfortable, more economical car etc to enable them to charge more. getting something from A to B is getting something from A to B, so price is a pretty big factor.
increased competition leads to increased efficiency.
even if more money was left, why would it mean more wages? the supply and demand of drivers sets the wages.
i understand very well how business’s are run, having run several myself through the years, not all of them in transport, and all of them are still running i just moved on to other things, i didn’t have a pop at fast eddie i just said i wouldn’t want to work for a big company. now the company i work for now do subbie work for eddie and it does pay better than most so best of luck to them.
but what i was trying to say was you can drive the price down so far that unless you have the buying power of the likes of ES for fuel ect then the small hauliers who possibly make up 80% of trucks on the road and employ the most will go out of business and then you will be at the mercy of the big boys and they could then hold the country to ransom, then watch wages drop even more
As said before,I,m alright Jack attitude as posted by at least two people,they,re okay nice jobs good money,stuff the rest of you!!
Harry Monk:
I certainly wouldn’t join any union which supported the Labour party, their unfettered immigration policies over their 15-odd years in power being the greatest cause of the deterioration in wages for working people I’ve ever known, and if I had a magic wand I would use it to wish the Iron Curtain had never been lifted and European transport had not suddenly been introduced to a world of workers willing to spend months away from home at a time for £25 a day.
Exactly !!
Someone mentioned that the rha or fta have no teeth. It’s amazing how many drivers don’t realise they are not all that interested in the drivers plight , being that their sole reason for existence is to look after haulage companies !!
bobbya:
As said before,I,m alright Jack attitude as posted by at least two people,they,re okay nice jobs good money,stuff the rest of you!!
And why not. I didn’t get those things handed to me, I worked to get them and sorted it for myself, same as many drivers I know. Anyone can do that so why should people who have done so risk it for people who can’t sort their own life out and need other people to do it for them?
Coffeeholic:
bobbya:
As said before,I,m alright Jack attitude as posted by at least two people,they,re okay nice jobs good money,stuff the rest of you!!
And why not. I didn’t get those things handed to me, I worked to get them and sorted it for myself, same as many drivers I know. Anyone can do that so why should people who have done so risk it for people who can’t sort their own life out and need other people to do it for them?
Your in a minority. Plenty of hard working drivers out there that have got nowhere due to various reasons.
I certainly wouldn’t join any union which supported the Labour party,
I inderstand your point Harry, but do you use the same logic when shopping.
How many of the products you buy are made by companies supporting the other major partry whose policies have been equally as bad.
Everytime you buy one of their products you can be unwillingly making a contribution to the Tories.
I once had a list of the major contributors to the Tories (published legally) and the household names on it were endless.
wildfire:
stevieboy308:
wildfire:
but until there is a set level for rates within the haulage industry that no one is allowed to under cut, and that can return a good profit for the company and so leave more avalible for wages,
do you understand how business works?
apply your own logic to other stuff in a free market, what would your attitude be towards it? minimum price for car insurance, tins of beans, football boots and chain saws.
i don’t get why so many truckers get hung up on under cutting, usually when having a pop a fast eddie. now don’t get me wrong i’m not saying it’s going to be nice losing your job to a firm that has undercut your firm, but it’s day one of business school and before the lunch break at that! other sectors have more scope not to rely on price as much, a car manufacturer can build a better looking, faster, more comfortable, more economical car etc to enable them to charge more. getting something from A to B is getting something from A to B, so price is a pretty big factor.
increased competition leads to increased efficiency.
even if more money was left, why would it mean more wages? the supply and demand of drivers sets the wages.
i understand very well how business’s are run, having run several myself through the years, not all of them in transport, and all of them are still running i just moved on to other things, i didn’t have a pop at fast eddie i just said i wouldn’t want to work for a big company. now the company i work for now do subbie work for eddie and it does pay better than most so best of luck to them.
but what i was trying to say was you can drive the price down so far that unless you have the buying power of the likes of ES for fuel ect then the small hauliers who possibly make up 80% of trucks on the road and employ the most will go out of business and then you will be at the mercy of the big boys and they could then hold the country to ransom, then watch wages drop even more
at no point did i say you were having a pop at fast eddie 
i’m surprised that someone who’s run several businesses would suggest what you’ve suggested
Coffeeholic:
bobbya:
As said before,I,m alright Jack attitude as posted by at least two people,they,re okay nice jobs good money,stuff the rest of you!!
And why not. I didn’t get those things handed to me, I worked to get them and sorted it for myself, same as many drivers I know. Anyone can do that so why should people who have done so risk it for people who can’t sort their own life out and need other people to do it for them?
I also have a decent job with good money but I still care about other people’s needs and would put myself out to help as I have done many times,it’s all me me me now,not a very good place to be really.
stevieboy308:
wildfire:
stevieboy308:
wildfire:
but until there is a set level for rates within the haulage industry that no one is allowed to under cut, and that can return a good profit for the company and so leave more avalible for wages,
do you understand how business works?
apply your own logic to other stuff in a free market, what would your attitude be towards it? minimum price for car insurance, tins of beans, football boots and chain saws.
i don’t get why so many truckers get hung up on under cutting, usually when having a pop a fast eddie. now don’t get me wrong i’m not saying it’s going to be nice losing your job to a firm that has undercut your firm, but it’s day one of business school and before the lunch break at that! other sectors have more scope not to rely on price as much, a car manufacturer can build a better looking, faster, more comfortable, more economical car etc to enable them to charge more. getting something from A to B is getting something from A to B, so price is a pretty big factor.
increased competition leads to increased efficiency.
even if more money was left, why would it mean more wages? the supply and demand of drivers sets the wages.
i understand very well how business’s are run, having run several myself through the years, not all of them in transport, and all of them are still running i just moved on to other things, i didn’t have a pop at fast eddie i just said i wouldn’t want to work for a big company. now the company i work for now do subbie work for eddie and it does pay better than most so best of luck to them.
but what i was trying to say was you can drive the price down so far that unless you have the buying power of the likes of ES for fuel ect then the small hauliers who possibly make up 80% of trucks on the road and employ the most will go out of business and then you will be at the mercy of the big boys and they could then hold the country to ransom, then watch wages drop even more
at no point did i say you were having a pop at fast eddie
i’m surprised that someone who’s run several businesses would suggest what you’ve suggested
why not■■?
if there was a minimum price per mile set by the government and it was set at rate that was fair, and i am not saying one rate fits all, could X pence for 7.5 to 18 tonne then X pence 18 tonne and so on, or a sliding scale i don’t have all the answer, just a rate that was profitable, and you were not allowed to be paid less than that, like the minimum wage,
and if all suppliers were told the rates they can then build it into their pricing structure,i do believe there is something like operated in some countries abroad
bobbya:
Coffeeholic:
bobbya:
As said before,I,m alright Jack attitude as posted by at least two people,they,re okay nice jobs good money,stuff the rest of you!!
And why not. I didn’t get those things handed to me, I worked to get them and sorted it for myself, same as many drivers I know. Anyone can do that so why should people who have done so risk it for people who can’t sort their own life out and need other people to do it for them?
I also have a decent job with good money but I still care about other people’s needs and would put myself out to help as I have done many times,it’s all me me me now,not a very good place to be really.
Oh I help people as well. I just wouldn’t join a union or support drivers who think so little of people doing the same job they ■■■■ where they have to sleep, carve them up on the motorway, leave them hanging after they have pulled out to make their joining of the road easier. Realise they are being overtaken when they finish texting so speed up to again leave them hanging and cannot help but spout total ■■■■■■■■ every time they open their mouths, or ones who drive for Royal Mail. Plus many other things, which prove they don’t give a crap about their ‘comrades’. The ones left probably don’t need support because they will have the job sorted for themselves and be quite happy with life.
wildfire:
why not■■?
if there was a minimum price per mile set by the government and it was set at rate that was fair, and i am not saying one rate fits all, could X pence for 7.5 to 18 tonne then X pence 18 tonne and so on, or a sliding scale i don’t have all the answer, just a rate that was profitable, and you were not allowed to be paid less than that, like the minimum wage,
and if all suppliers were told the rates they can then build it into their pricing structure,i do believe there is something like operated in some countries abroad
As I said, if there was a minimum rate then we would all be working for that. All suppliers would know that rate and thus not pay any more.
Now let’s say Stobcantons by virtue of economies of scale can run for 1.25 a mile where as Traditional Joes costs are 1.45 a mile. Minimum rated is set at let’s say 1.50 a mile. Now who is laughing ■■
By law Stobcanton can not charge any less and so cannot undercut but by making more money they will still take the work off Traditional Joe. By offering value added service like for example inventory management, on site staff, stand trailers, and faster delivery times by virtue of size and network. They can afford to do all this and still make more money than Traditional Joe by virtue of your minimum rate.
It will do more harm than good.
Not to mention the nice ongoing business that Traditional Joe has earned by ongoing quality of service and familiarity which did pay 1.80 a mile is now worth 1.50 because that’s the rate they know it can be done for surely as that’s the law ■■? Poor old Joe and his medium to small haulier bretheren are screwed
Mister coffee the stuff you,re on about is just an everyday occurence we don,t like it but there’s not a lot we can do about it so we really should try and help those who maybe aren,t as educated as I guess you are ,thats all really.