Dangerous goods advice- UK regs and ADR

[dieseldave]

GlesgaBill:
What changes have their been to the ADR Regs since 1/1/08 ?

Hi and Happy New Year GlesgaBill, Generally speaking, ADR is completely re-printed and re-published every 2 years. For some reason, it’s done on an odd-numbered year eg. 2003, 2005, 2007 etc.
The UK used to publish its own Regs for domestic use seemingly whenever parliament felt like it
Nowadays, the UK Regs are supposed to coincide with ADR, but the '04, '05 and '07 UK Regs were all late
(There weren’t any UK Regs issued in '06)

GlesgaBill:
I seem to remember that the amounts of powder in fire extinguishers carried on vehicles over 7.5 tonne will change TO the current-

Min 2Kg in the cab
12kg on the body of the vehicle (one must be a minimum of 6kg)

GlesgaBill, I only changed one word in your quote above.
Previously, it depended upon when the vehicle was registered, and since that “transitional period” is now over, it would be confusing to put what the position WAS.

Since I haven’t covered fire extinguishers for ADR work before, like the batteries above, thanks for the question

As from 01/01/08, the requirements for fire extinguishers are:

Carriage in Limited Quantities. (Per individual package)
IF you’re carrying Limited Quantities (LQs) you don’t need any extinguishers.
IF you carry LQs with extinguishers on board, then that’s OK, since you’d have more than the minimum of nil.

Carriage below threshold. (= total weight/literage of all packages on vehicle not exempted by LQs)
IF you’re carrying a load that’s NOT packaged in LQs, but below the threshold, then you’ll need:
1 X 2kg dry powder extinguisher suitable for fighting a fire in the engine or the cab of the vehicle.
Something like this:
or this
In larger vehicles than those shown in the pics, the 2kg extinguisher can be mounted on the framework below the driver’s seat.

Carriage in excess of ADR threshold ( ie, when ADR applies in full)

You’ll need the 2kg extinguisher as above, PLUS one more extinguisher depending on the permitted G.V.W. of your vehicle as follows:
(The actual weight of goods that you’re carrying is irrelevant here )

Permitted G.V.W. less than 3,500 kgs needs ANOTHER 2kg extinguisher as above, making a total of 4kgs.

Permitted G.V.W. between 3,500kgs and less than 7,500kgs needs ANOTHER 6kg extinguisher making a total of 8kgs

Permitted G.V.W over 7,500kgs ie ANY LGV needs ANOTHER 10kg extinguisher making a total of 12kgs
Once the vehicle is an LGV, it doesn’t matter whether it’s a rigid, wag and drag or an artic

On most vehicles, the larger of the extinguishers is carried outside the vehicle in some kind of protective covering,
something like this:

Other requirements:

1. Extinguishers must be of an approved type ie. the Kite Mark or the CE mark.

2. Extinguishers must be periodically inspected and bear a label / sticker showing the next due date of inspection

3. Extinguishers must be fitted with a seal AND pin
   Something like this:
   

4. Extinguishers must be protected from the effects of the weather.

5. Extinguishers must be easily accessible.

Lately, extinguishers are failing their inspection, if any of the paint is missing, since this leads to corrosion.

The old requirements (1 X 2kg + 1 X 6kg for all vehicles) means that there’s no end of 6kg extinguishers knocking about in yards up and down the country, so my advice is that you just need another extinguisher box mounting on the vehicle. Then you just put another of the old 6kg jobbies in ther and away you go, provided it’s compliant, of course.

That’s much cheaper than going out and buying a fancy 10kg extinguisher, because if you take my suggestion, you’d then have 2 + 6 + 6 = 14. With the minimum requirement being 12kgs, there’s no problem in being 2 kg to the good.
Remember, 12kg is a minimum, not a maximum.

In the event that 1 and 2 and 3 above aren’t complied with, you’ll be done for not having an extinguisher, since that’s the spec for extinguishers. You’ll also receive a Prohibition Notice (PN,) which probably won’t be cleared until there’s another compliant extinguisher on board. If you are on an international journey, you’ll be prohibited until you’re compliant, but you must reckon on being fined.

GlesgaBill:
and are there other changes that we should be aware of?

There’s a few bits and bobs, but they’re dependant on the substance.

[glesgabill]

Many thanks for that, Dave

[krankee]

The following has been extracted from another thread in an effort to try and keep matters in the one location.

NEJ:
Diesel dave firstly I have asked this question on another part of this website so apologies for asking again (in the right place this time) .

Is it legal for a non-ADR/ HAz trained driver to “Drive” a vehicle with an ADR/ Haz load on board with a 2nd man / attendant who is qualified to ADR/ Haz standard as I was under the impression that “The Driver” was required to have the appropriate qualifications for the load being carried as the driver is responsible for the vehicle & the load?

---

Spannernut

dieseldave:
You’re spot-on NEJ.

The best way to think of this is to imagine that it’s the person actually holding the steering-wheel who needs the ADR licence.

The three commonest questions I get on the subject of accompanying are “driver training,” “recovery vehicles” and “double manning.”

1. Driver training.
When it comes to in-house driver training, say for a driving licence upgrade, then the LGV “novice” would already have to hold the appropriate ADR licence, if the training is carried out with an ADR loaded vehicle. Anybody with a DVLA Swansea issued driver number is eligible to take an ADR course. If they do a licence upgrade, the ADR licence automatically follows anybody’s driving licence entitlement.

2. Recovery vehicles.
In emergency circumstances, a recovery driver is allowed to recover a broken -down or accident-damaged ADR regulated vehicle, provided that it’s to the nearest place of safety and accompanied by the emergency services. In all other circumstances, the recovery driver must comply with all of ADR that’s relevant to the vehicle he/she tows or carries.

3. Double manning.
If an ADR regulated vehicle is double-manned, then both drivers need the appropriate ADR licence, if both are to actually drive the vehicle. If it’s less than a day’s-worth of driving, the person driving needs the ADR licence as you said. IF the second driver isn’t ADR qualified, they’d have to have documented proof that they’d had ADR “awareness” training.

Just a reminder: a driver commits an offence if he/she doesn’t have the original ADR certificate available “on demand” for inspection at any time during carriage. There is NO provision to produce it later at a police station AND photocopies are NOT acceptable. An acceptable form of photgraphic I.D. is also a requirement.

[dieseldave]

Thanks for that Krankee
It might save me some typing too.

[imp]

Hi Dave
Now we have moved into 21st century and the worlds gone mad about net zero can we now do ADR loads without paperwork and via a digital device. I’d say no but things move on between refreshers and desks jockeys come up with bright ideas.

[zac_a]

I’ve seen that discussed by other DGSAs but there is no definitive answer: the main issue seems to be that the documentation must be “readily available”. Therefore it could not be on a password protected device, and what would happen in the case of a flat device battery or random tech issue? You’d be in breach of the regulations and liable to prohibition, all for the sake of a couple of sheets of paper.

Given that the driver must carry his physical ADR driver training certificate, and I can’t imagine the fire brigade wanting to look at digital Instructions in Writing, I’d say its best to carry physical paperwork.

Unless you want to be the one to raise it with the DfT’s DGSA? From my limited experience with him, he’s unlikely to be wanting to stick his neck out on such an issue.

[dieseldave]

Imp:
Hi Dave
Now we have moved into 21st century and the worlds gone mad about net zero can we now do ADR loads without paperwork and via a digital device. I’d say no but things move on between refreshers and desks jockeys come up with bright ideas.

Hi Imp,

The short answer to your question is YES, an ADR job can be done without a Transport Document ( = delivery note) but as Zac says, there are some difficulties.

ADR has this to say on the subject:

ADR 5.4.0.2 The use of electronic data processing (EDP) or electronic data interchange (EDI) techniques as an aid to or instead of paper documentation is permitted, provided that the procedures used for the capture, storage and processing of electronics data meet the legal requirements as regards the evidential value and availability of data during transport in a manner at least equivalent to that of paper documentation.

This tells us that, in relation to a delivery note, EDP and EDI methods are permitted.

I’m a non-techy, so for me, I’d need a clear definition of what EDP and EDI are.
I’d also need to know the standard for equivalence to paper documentation.

ADR 5.4.0.3 When the dangerous goods transport information is given to the carrier by EDP or EDI techniques, the consignor shall be able to give the information to the carrier as a paper document, with the information in the sequence required by this Chapter.

In this part of the quote, “… shall be able to give the information…” does not mean that paper is required.

As for Instructions In Writing (IIW), I see nothing in ADR that would preclude the vehicle crew from having the IIW available on a mobile phone. The Fire Brigade don’t need to see the IIW as the IIW is only intended as info for the vehicle crew and are only UN Class specific, which is why it is important to give the Fire Brigade the UN number(s) for the ‘stuff’ being carried so that they know how to deal with a fire or spillage.

[dieseldave]

matchbox:
Hi Dave,

Long time no speak.

Anyhow, had a situation today when one of our drivers went for a collection of 3 IBCs and the dude at the collection point refused to despatch them because the driver did not have an ADR and these IBCs had not been washed out and that there was about 200 litres, collectively in total between the 3.

There is one ADR driver at our depot that claims this is right because although the IBCs were NOT full, by ANY means, they still had the capacity to hold well over 3000 litres, and that it made no difference whether they are full or not.

This REALLY got my back up at not only my friend and colleague, but more so at the muppet at the collection point for refusing to dispatch them.

Am I right in saying that he was WRONG not to despatch them to a non ADR driver?

Am I right to say that these IBCs did not need washing out to require a non ADR driver?

I’d love some rules and regs to prove I am right!

=============================================================

matchbox:
…the dude at the collection point refused to despatch them because the driver did not have an ADR and these IBCs had not been washed out and that there was about 200 litres, collectively in total between the 3.

The guy was most probably right, but I’d have to know the UN number in order to give you a good answer.

matchbox:
There is one ADR driver at our depot that claims this is right because although the IBCs were NOT full, by ANY means, they still had the capacity to hold well over 3000 litres, and that it made no difference whether they are full or not.

I’m afraid it’s not as clear cut as you might think. Firstly “IBC” is a size, and there are many different types, some are rigid, whilst some are flexible. Also, the maximum size of an IBC is 3,000 litres, so if the thing is bigger than that, it ISN’T an IBC
Another reason for asking you for the UN number is so that I know whether it’s a liquid or a solid that we’re discussing, because the spec for IBCs is slightly different for liquids than it is for solids.

Could you please also find out the code on the “IBC” in question??
It will look something like this:

I’d need at least the first characters from the code eg: 31HA1 / Y / 0207 / D as in the picture.

matchbox:
This REALLY got my back up at not only my friend and colleague, but more so at the muppet at the collection point for refusing to dispatch them.

I’m afraid that both of these people might be right

matchbox:
Am I right in saying that he was WRONG not to despatch them to a non ADR driver?

As I said, I’d need the UN number for the “stuff” and the code from whatever was containing it.

matchbox:
Am I right to say that these IBCs did not need washing out to require a non ADR driver?

You are possibly right. The reason being that if a package is “nominally empty,” then in most cases they can be carried without limit by a non-trained driver. However, if the substance is in transport category 0 (zero) then the Regs will fully apply even when the IBC is “nominally empty.”

If the substance is in transport categories 1-4 then you’re right about the IBC not needing to be washed out before a non-trained driver can pick it/them up. The rule for “nominally empty” means that the IBC has been drained of the dangerous goods, but a small residue remaining is perfectly acceptable. However, from your description, it appears that the dispatch guy and your colleague were right. IMHO, I don’t think it’s arguable that the IBCs you described could be said to be “nominally empty.”

matchbox:
I’d love some rules and regs to prove I am right!

Once I have the info I need, I’ll be quite happy to quote the relevant bits of Regs to back you up, but on this occasion I fear you might be wrong. Let’s wait and see what comes…

[matchbox]

Thanks Dave,

Spot in as per usual.

I’ll report back this evening!

[matchbox]

Sadly, upon my return to the depot this evening the pickup had been trunked.

I’ll get them next time Dave!

[dieseldave]

matchbox:
Sadly, upon my return to the depot this evening the pickup had been trunked.

I’ll get them next time Dave!

Just a thought so we don’t miss a trick, (since this one is like trying to catch fog with a net ) please also make a note of any labelling that’s on the IBCs. (Diamonds and/or COSHH labels)

[laikin_art]

Hi dieseldave

Are there any threshold limits under either UK or ADR rules for carriage of radioactives?

Sorry for the double post I was asked by a mod. You may remove it if that’s possible.

[dieseldave]

laikin’ art:
Hi dieseldave

Are there any threshold limits under either UK or ADR rules for carriage of radioactives?

Sorry for the double post I was asked by a mod. You may remove it if that’s possible.

Hi laikin’ art Sorry mate, I can’t remove it, cos I’m not a Mod. If you go back to your OP, I’ve answered as best I can on the info you’ve given.

Class7 is excruciating in its requirements, so the heaviest legal compliance burden rests with the consignor (sender) of the goods.

Watch for a PM.

[mrflibble]

Dave,

Is there a “crib sheet” from UN numbers to LQ or other exemptions? So that we can decide (at short notice) whether to accept loads? Whilst your service here is very useful, it’s less useful when you’re at the loading point and you’re not sure whether you can take stuff.

Or is this what we need to do an ADR course for?

[dieseldave]

MrFlibble:
Dave,

Is there a “crib sheet” from UN numbers to LQ or other exemptions? So that we can decide (at short notice) whether to accept loads? Whilst your service here is very useful, it’s less useful when you’re at the loading point and you’re not sure whether you can take stuff.

Or is this what we need to do an ADR course for?

Hi Mr Flibble, fraid there’s no such thing as an LQ crib sheet mate.

The way this works is that there’s around 3,200 substances and articles in the Dangerous Goods List. Clearly, some of these are far more dangerous than others. Limited Quantity exemptions only apply to less dangerous stuff.

The Dangerous Goods list is like a spreadsheet with all the substances listed in one column. Once the goods are identified and classified then the next job is to see what applies to them by reading along the row of 20 columns all the way across two pages. LQs are just one of those columns. For each dangerous good, there is an LQ code assigned, which ranges from LQ0 to LQ28. The LQ codes are then referenced in yet another table, which then tells the inner AND outer package size limits. Any substance which has LQ0 assigned can never be carried using LQ exemptions. So the short answer is that you’d have to look up each substance to discover its LQ code.
That’s the classroom theory in a nutshell.

In practice, the law says that every consignor and every carrier of dangerous goods, which exceed ADRs trigger limits must appoint a DGSA, and it’s been that way since 31/12/99. A driver’s ADR training DOESN’T cover your question, even if you have taken and passed every module, because it simply isn’t a driver’s job to decide if/when the ADR Regs apply to a job. That legal responsibility rests with the sender (consignor) AND the operator of the vehicle (the carrier.)

The way it’s supposed to work is that the consignor tells the carrier that a truck is required to transport dangerous goods from “A” to “B” and provide the carrier with sufficient info such that the carrier is able to decide whether to send an ADR trained driver to do the job. It really is that simple, so why oh why don’t many consignors simply do what the law requires?? At the time that the transport order is given to the carrier, why oh why doesn’t the carrier have the nouse to ask the right questions?? IMHO, this isn’t rocket science and you as a driver should NEVER be placed in this position.

But it’s not all bad news. The law also provides you with a statutory defence if you can prove that you were misled, and you mention that if you are stop checked. By far the best way of staying in the clear is when the consignor tells you “it’s LQs, so you’re OK,” then just ask for that fact in writing on the delivery note and ask them to sign and date it.

Just to give you a kind of gut feeling for whether you’re being conned with LQs, I can tell you that the MAXIMUM LQ inner receptacle size for liquids is 5 liters, and for solids the MAXIMUM inner receptacle size is 6Kg. If something is in inner receptacles which exceed either of those sizes, IT ISN’T LQs and will then count towards an overall trigger limit per vehicle load.
LQs NEVER count towards the overall trigger limit and therefore can be completely disregarded.

You might ask your boss whether your company has a DGSA, because he AND the consignor’s DGSA are supposed to be communicating info, which doesn’t appear to be happening.

Please don’t have nightmares Mr Flibble, because this ISN’T your problem. (Unless you’re an O/D)

[dieseldave]

Copied and pasted from an old thread to save me typing

Some time ago,

smiler:
Whilst on the subject of adr dd how come fire lighters dont come under the regs.

Hi smiler, that’s a great question, which will help shed some light on the subject [edit].

All substances and articles (that count as “dangerous”) end up in what ADR calls “transport categories” (not to be confused with “class” ) The categories are numbered 0 - 4 so there’s a total of 5 transport categories. Cat 0 is the most dangerous, and cat 4 is the least dangerous. Each of the categories has a load limit per vehicle, above which the Regs apply in full. (I’d say it’s best to think of this as a “trigger.”) Once you’ve exceeded the limit for what you’re carrying, you need an ADR licence, orange boards, 2 fire extinguishers, full documentation, PPE, and vehicle equipment amongst other things.

Limits:
Cat 0 = 0 (So spectacularly dangerous that the full Regs apply even if the cargo is the size of a grain of sand. )
Cat 1 = 20 Kg or litres (High danger)
Cat 2 = 333 Kg or litres (Medium danger)
Cat 3 = 1,000 Kg or litres (Low danger)
Cat 4 = unlimited. (so un-dangerous that hardly any of ADR applies.)

The non-technical answer your question is: Firelighters generally count as dangerous goods, but they are in cat 4, so there’s no “trigger” limit, so just load and go as they say.
Some shotgun cartridges, those with 1.4S on the package labels, are in cat 4 (Just a couple of conditions apply to these.)

The above has no connection to Limited Quantities (LQs)
I’d suggest thast the best way to think of this is that the above applies when LQs DON’T.
Last point: The Regs say that the responsibility for deciding whether the Regs apply is NOT part of an employed driver’s duties.

[adam79]

Hi Dave, do you know where I can gain my ADR in the Peterborough area? and did you say it is not rocket science?

[dieseldave]

adam79:
Hi Dave, do you know where I can gain my ADR in the Peterborough area?

Hi adam79, You don’t seem to have much choice in your area mate.

Apex Training Services
Oxney Road Industrial Estate
Peterborough
PE1 5YW
01733 567478
apextraininguk@aol.com
Contact: Mr Malcolm Brunyee

J Coates (HGV Services) Ltd
46-50 Great Central Street
Leicester
LE1 4NF
0116 262 6037
andrewcope@jcoates.co.uk
Contact: Mr Andrew Cope

There are others, but they’ll all involve a fair amount of travelling I’m afraid.

adam79:
…and did you say it is not rocket science?

It’s definitely NOT rocket science, but I’d advise that you listen carefully, read your handouts, make notes and above all, ask a question if there’s something mentioned that you don’t understand.

The only daft question is the one that you don’t ask.

Don’t forget that I’m here to help if you get stuck.

Good Luck.

[adam79]

I will nip in and see Apex Training Services on Monday, thanks for that

[dieseldave]

adam79:
I will nip in and see Apex Training Services on Monday, thanks for that

Hi adam79, Have you decided which modules you’ll do yet?

When you discuss their prices, please make sure you understand whether the price they quote is ‘all-in’ or whether the VAT and exam fees are separate. Some providers are less than clear about this, so it might pay you to ask.

Another good question to ask is whether they use the ‘individual classes’ route to the exams, or the ‘common characteristics’ route. Providers using the ‘individual classes’ route tend to be slightly more expensive, but there’s no trickery, it’s because they have to pay more to get the exams marked.

‘Individual classes’ means exactly that. Each of the UN Classes has its own exam, so if you fail an exam, you have failed one class. You could then re-sit that class next time they run an ADR course. Whether or not you attend for the lesson is up to you, provided you do so within 16 weeks of a fail. If you wait until after the 16 weeks, you must attend the relevant lesson in order to do your re-sit.

‘Common characteristics’ means that you sit fewer exams, because several are combined, therefore making the marking fees cheaper. The downside to this route is that if you fail an exam, you fail several UN Classes. The rules for re-sits are the same as above.

Exam costs. Every exam paper submitted by the ADR provider for marking at SQA is charged a marking fee of £20 per paper. The ADR providers have no control over this.

If you do Core module, packages module and seven UN Classes by the individual classes route, that means that you’ll sit 9 exams in total therefore 9 X £20 = £180.

If you do Core module, packages module and seven UN Classes by the common characteristics route, that means that you’ll sit 5 exams in total therefore 5 X £20 = £100.
The saving with this route come from the fact that UN Classes 2,3,6 &8 are on ONE exam paper, whilst UN Classes 4,5 &9 are also on ONE exam paper. There is an element of rolling the dice associated with this method, but it tends to be cheaper.

If you opt to do the tanker module, you can attach that to either of the routes above, because the tanker module is ‘self-standing.’ There’s one exam for this, so the marking fee will be £20. A tanker module can be done at any time during the validity of your ADR licence, so you could come back another time to do it. Also, it’s worth noting that you’re not tied to any provider, so the choice is entirely yours to make.

You pays your money and takes your chance, cos there’s nowt for nowt…

I have no info one way or the other about Apex, so I’ve no idea of their reputation.

Good luck mate, and please post up your experience to help others.