GORDON 50:
It would be nice to see some sort of scheme where cyclists spend an hour or so in a working lorry in a town centre, just to get the other side of it. But I suppose only a few would take it up.
Mmmmmm millions of cyclists won’t work mate
shep532:
A friend of mine runs these courses on behalf of FORS. He can take up to 12 drivers out on bikes at one time and tells me they very often receive abuse and agro from car drivers for being a large group. They have had a good few near misses as well. We were only on a quiet industrial estate and that was bad enoughThen we were on a dual carriageway where we were “allowed” to take the cycle lane
Some of the drivers haven’t been on a bike in many years. He takes them round some cones for half an hour then out onto the roads where they are supposed to find busy(ish) junctions and roundabouts to negotiate. Some can be very wobbly and some struggle with the physical exercise and have to keep stopping so they can end up pretty strung out along a roadYou must have been watching me
I often have conversations with him putting my point across that this is far too dangerous and should not be allowed. How can FORS justify purposely putting 12 drivers at a time in harms way in the name of training? That was the conversation we had on the way home
Let’s be honest, most places won’t allow a driver to be anywhere near his vehicle to supervise the loading in case he is hit by a FLT etc - yet we can send them on a pointless/needless cycle ride on real roads with real traffic and virtually no control over the outcome. Apparently we need to feel/experience what it’s like from their POV.
It would be interesting (but very sad) to see what happens if, one day, an HGV driver is killed or seriously injured on one of these FORS/TFL courses. God forbid. If you’re an atheist, substitute that sentence for this one:- Lets hope it never happens…
I don’t think it’s a bad idea to have a course specifically focusing on cyclists, and can see that it may well become a requirement before long if driving in the Hellhole. But as Shep points out, it’s simply not appropriate to put drivers on bikes if they aren’t used to riding and therefore not safe on them. I say appropriate, but I think it’s more like irresponsible… 
I ride regularly, so I wouldn’t have an issue about doing to course, but based on my experience should I even need to? 
I’m well aware of what it’s like to be almost blown of a bike when a truck passes closely at speed, and as a result I give bikes as much space as possible, and only pass them when safe, no matter how frustrating they make it! 
So yes there is value for truckers to see what it’s like for the cyclist, but not at the risk to themselves, as you can’t put them in real situations without the potential of something going badly wrong…
If we need to do something to reduce cycling deaths, can’t we at least start with some educational adverts like the drink driving ones?
on radio 2 today they were talking about hgvs having more clear panels fitted to their vehicles in order to make cyclists more safer,there is only one thing that will make cyclists safer and we hgv drivers know what that is, PLAIN COMMON SENSE,if a cyclist is behind an hgv and about to go past on the inside common sense should kick in,they should start thinking that even if the hgv is not indicating he/she might well be turning left so I will hang back a bit,that is all it takes,common sense,problem solved,but do they, no,we are allways the bad guys,shame the bxxxxy government/mayor don’t realise that.
shep532:
I often have conversations with him putting my point across that this is far too dangerous and should not be allowed. How can FORS justify purposely putting 12 drivers at a time in harms way in the name of training?I note when FLT training is delivered it is in a closed/coned off area and not a real warehouse with loads of activity going on. Let’s be honest, most places won’t allow a driver to be anywhere near his vehicle to supervise the loading in case he is hit by a FLT etc - yet we can send them on a pointless/needless cycle ride on real roads with real traffic and virtually no control over the outcome. I would certainly like to see the risk assessments for this activity.
It would be interesting (but very sad) to see what happens if, one day, an HGV driver is killed or seriously injured on one of these FORS/TFL courses.
Since I retired I am knocking out over 4000 mile a year on the bike and if I were to go back into driving and attend a dcpc course and asked to cycle in a busy town centre situation I may well refuse on the grounds that it is just too risky.
And there are some pretty eminent people who would not disagree with me. Head of roads policing said that she would not cycle in busy town centre, saying that the risks were just too high
standard.co.uk/news/london/u … 99096.html
so to compel others to do so as part of a course is clearly bizarre.
If your firm is fors they get it free for drivers we done ours in the city of London and it was good.
Our instructor was very pragmatic and saw the real world problems other people I know have had full on lyra facists running there’s and got nothing from it.
I was repremanded for popping a wheelie riding along lower Thames street
Bluey Circles:
Since I retired I am knocking out over 4000 mile a year on the bike .
I always knew your username was an anagram of bicycles rule!
Héraultais:
Bluey Circles:
Since I retired I am knocking out over 4000 mile a year on the bike .I always knew your username was an anagram of bicycles rule!
well done - LOL. thought i would have been rumbled a lot earlier.
anyway, has been great taking part, some good people on TN, have enjoyed the company, but probably time to sign out; decided a while ago not to get back into transport.
Having spent some large part of my life in a HGV rigid and bendy,and loads of drops in London and other busy areas. I always enjoyed a 10 mile thrash at the weekends with a couple of mates on our mountain bikes. This often meant getting wet muddy and bruised, scratched stung and out of breath on cart-way’s bridle paths and footpaths. One day we met a landowner who wanted us to carry the push bikes (footpath out in the sticks) 
I am now retired and use the push bike as local transport and a ride out into the sticks when it suits. I like drifting through muddy turns and blatting down hill at 30mph, I still do jumps as well.
Looking back over the years and the pile of mangled trashed and generally ■■■■■■ push bikes, I think it is fair to say that as a cyclist I am neither, good or safe.
As said before, cyclists need educating NOT lorry drivers - they have enough to watch for like back end swing, kerbs/railings and of course oncoming traffic in the road they are going.
In towns/cities (including London) I drive as close to the kerb as possible to prevent cyclists from coming up my inside (cue dipper dave 
)
tango boy:
GORDON 50:
It would be nice to see some sort of scheme where cyclists spend an hour or so in a working lorry in a town centre, just to get the other side of it. But I suppose only a few would take it up.Mmmmmm millions of cyclists won’t work mate
dri-diddly-iver:
As said before, cyclists need educating NOT lorry drivers - they have enough to watch for like back end swing, kerbs/railings and of course oncoming traffic in the road they are going.In towns/cities (including London) I drive as close to the kerb as possible to prevent cyclists from coming up my inside (cue dipper dave
Yep, there are practical problems, but,
Cyclists must spend time in a truck in the city.
Truck and bus drivers must spend time in the city riding a bike.
Drivers must spend time in a traffic office.
Traffic planners must spend time in a truck queuing for deliveries, negotiating traffic etc.
Architects must spend time in cab before designing loading bays etc. And ferry designers must climb in and out of a truck cab in their newly built boats.
Etc Etc.
Just too many people with blinkered vision in the world. Can`t see that I am tho.
Heard this on the radio the other day along with see through cabs on trucks… the mind boggles
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
Just done the “Safer Urban Driving” course and apart from the sunburn, trying not to fall asleep and remembering why I stopped riding bikes 20 years ago, it’s not too bad as a course although still virtually a complete waste of time.
Part 1 - As mentioned it’s split into the theory side which is Powerpoint hell and totally focused on London from changes in road junction designs to help cyclists, to rules about those daft cycle boxes you sometimes get at the front of junctions. Perfect CPC part of the course as you really will be desperately trying to stay awake!
Part 2 - The riding bit is “interesting” and will bring back memories for those who did cycling proficiency in schools. Turns out you can forget how to ride a bike, at least for the first 10 mins, but that’s mostly due to weaving around cones, doing “go slow” races and lots of crashing into each other. Can be fun if done by the right people like Citycard Cycles from Nottingham who normally teach kids and know how much of the problem is caused by cyclists. In our case, they did take us out on a road in Lincoln but tried to keep it to the business estates so away from the traffic.
Overall - the course is very backwards as it’s mostly for teaching people the risks of riding a bike, not drivers about the risks of cyclists, but that’s due to the stupid people who write the course rather than those doing the teaching.
As for cyclists themselves - there is an initiative by the London Met police who will show you the view from a truck and how little a driver can actually see. Trouble is, they’ve seen about 23,000 cyclists through this vs 20,000 HGV drivers through this course - except there’s at least 100x as many cyclists per day than HGV’s in London alone!
You don’t need to do this for dCPC but you do if you’re boss is doing FORS Silver, CLOCS or driving to Crossrail sites.
Btw, did you know the government are spending around £900m on London cycle superhighways and junction changes just to make it easier for bikes…not to help other road users. Nice of them.
Final tip - I’d do the theory first and then the riding bit as if the instructors are nice you might end up at an ice cream van!
The lady director of O’Connell Ltd waste tipper firm in London was on radio two Jeremy Vine show ,on about the new trucks she has with glass side panels to see the ground and cyclists .
The cost for these modified trucks is £25,000 each.
Her drivers took the cycling course and enjoyed it ,
It is down to the truck manufacturers to up the game and roll out better all round vision.
You stop at a red light or pelican crossing.
Count how many checks you have to do before driving off again,then a bike has gone
unnoticed in the blind spot while you were checking all the mirrors .
Berty:
Heard this on the radio the other day along with see through cabs on trucks… the mind bogglesSent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
See through cabs. Aslong as you have powerful air con or these doors can be fully opened whilst driving it’ll be ok. Otherwise they’ll be mobile greenhouses.