For Valkyrie’s benefit, and, in the interest’s of getting the fact’s right the Vim engines used by Guy and Daimler were built under licence by Krupp in Germany. Any idea that Bill Lyon’s and his merry men could set up to make these engines under licence, or, from CKD kits was totally unrealistic due to the low volumes of engines they required. (What the press are initially told and what then actually happens in real life does not necessarily marry up).
The later V903, by the way, as with all ■■■■■■■ engines was made to meet a number of different applications not only trucks.
5Valve:
The later V903, by the way, as with all ■■■■■■■ engines was made to meet a number of different applications not only trucks.
I think the main reason for the 903’s inferiority compared to it’s opposition was that bore/stroke measurement issue.I don’t think it ever outperformed it’s competitors in terms of the combination of reliability and outputs in most typical types of diesel application.
Carryfast:
5Valve:
The later V903, by the way, as with all ■■■■■■■ engines was made to meet a number of different applications not only trucks.I think the main reason for the 903’s inferiority compared to it’s opposition was that bore/stroke measurement issue.I don’t think it ever outperformed it’s competitors in terms of the combination of reliability and outputs in most typical types of diesel application.
A quick perusal of US forums reveals that many 903s went into farm tractors. The bore/stroke ratio of the 903 compared to others:
Cu 855- 5.5”x6 (0.92)
Cu 903- 5.5”x4.75” (1.16)
Unic v8- 135x130 (1.04)
It may have used the same pistons as the straight 6. It is more oversquare than the similar-size Unic engine. Maybe Cf is right- oversquare engines and lorries do not mix. I wonder why?
tankerian:
Nearly done with these cutaway shots, can get more if anyone is interested.
Great to see the more the better. 
5Valve:
For Valkyrie’s benefit, and, in the interest’s of getting the fact’s right the Vim engines used by Guy and Daimler were built under licence by Krupp in Germany. Any idea that Bill Lyon’s and his merry men could set up to make these engines under licence, or, from CKD kits was totally unrealistic due to the low volumes of engines they required. (What the press are initially told and what then actually happens in real life does not necessarily marry up).
The later V903, by the way, as with all ■■■■■■■ engines was made to meet a number of different applications not only trucks.
Evening all, 5valve, thank you for clarifying. Yes the volumes were so small as to be insignificant. In fact I understand that when the Meadows factory was viewed, the projected volume could have been produced in less than 50% of the floor space!
Sad, but all that is left of Guy now is the drawing office, even the Henry Meadows buildings are gone, now purpose built storage for Assy Ablow, (trading on the Chubb name), the Chubb lock and safe works now, (of course), well its housing.
Hows the hip? my sciatica is playing merry hell, (and we still cannot get the spuds out), I`m driven to the Bollinger, b… it. Cheerio for now.
tankerian wrote:Nearly done with these cutaway shots, can get more if anyone is interested.
Pity we can’t see one of the ID Plate close up and find out the correct type of engine.
[zb]
anorak:Carryfast:
5Valve:
The later V903, by the way, as with all ■■■■■■■ engines was made to meet a number of different applications not only trucks.I think the main reason for the 903’s inferiority compared to it’s opposition was that bore/stroke measurement issue.I don’t think it ever outperformed it’s competitors in terms of the combination of reliability and outputs in most typical types of diesel application.
A quick perusal of US forums reveals that many 903s went into farm tractors. The bore/stroke ratio of the 903 compared to others:
Cu 855- 5.5”x6 (0.92)
Cu 903- 5.5”x4.75” (1.16)
Unic v8- 135x130 (1.04)
It may have used the same pistons as the straight 6. It is more oversquare than the similar-size Unic engine. Maybe Cf is right- oversquare engines and lorries do not mix. I wonder why?
I think it’s more a case of the short stroke dimension itself rather than just the issue of ‘over square’ v ‘under square’ in isolation.As I said previously it is possible to have an over square engine that also has sufficient stroke by going up on overall capacity.The problem with an excessively short stroke is that the engine needs to spend more time running in the higher engine speed ranges to get similar amounts of output as having a more reasonable stroke dimension can provide.
It’s all about the issue of balancing cylinder numbers with overall capacity in the sense that over square will be fine so long as the stroke measurement hasn’t been compromised too much to keep overall capacity down in the case of increasing cylinder numbers.It’s only because of that which is where the 6 cylinder 855/N14 range and the other V8 competitors got their advantage over the 903.In other words the 903 had an over compromised stroke dimension.In the case of going for more cylinders,without going up on overall engine capacity to provide a sufficient stroke dimension,then it’s usually always better better to compromise the bore dimension not the stroke one.
I’m sure i’d find this interesting if i knew what the hell you’re all talking about , WTF is oversquare and undersquare 
Ive built quite a few Landrover engines ( yes smaller i know ) in my time but ive never heard of that before .
bowser:
I’m sure i’d find this interesting if i knew what the hell you’re all talking about , WTF is oversquare and undersquareIve built quite a few Landrover engines ( yes smaller i know ) in my time but ive never heard of that before .
Square = same bore measurement as stroke
Over square = larger bore dimension than stroke one
Under square = smaller bore dimension than stroke one
But it is possible to have an over square engine which has a longer stroke than an under square one because there’s no substitute for overall cubic inches. 
Carryfast:
bowser:
I’m sure i’d find this interesting if i knew what the hell you’re all talking about , WTF is oversquare and undersquareIve built quite a few Landrover engines ( yes smaller i know ) in my time but ive never heard of that before .
Square = same bore measurement as stroke
Over square = larger bore dimension than stroke one
Under square = smaller bore dimension than stroke one
But it is possible to have an over square engine which has a longer stroke than an under square one because there’s no substitute for overall cubic inches.
Im going to mull that over and see if i can get my head around it .
When you say "measurement " do you mean length of stroke or CC of the bore ?
And i do find this stuff interesting so its a serious question .
bowser:
Carryfast:
bowser:
I’m sure i’d find this interesting if i knew what the hell you’re all talking about , WTF is oversquare and undersquareIve built quite a few Landrover engines ( yes smaller i know ) in my time but ive never heard of that before .
Square = same bore measurement as stroke
Over square = larger bore dimension than stroke one
Under square = smaller bore dimension than stroke one
But it is possible to have an over square engine which has a longer stroke than an under square one because there’s no substitute for overall cubic inches.
Im going to mull that over and see if i can get my head around it .
When you say "measurement " do you mean length of stroke or CC of the bore ?And i do find this stuff interesting so its a serious question .
Just the actual measurement of the bore diameter.Compared to the distance which the piston travels between Top Dead Centre to Bottom Dead Centre which is governed by Crankshaft throw and therefore affects the torque characteristics of the engine.If you go for a V8 compared to a 6 cylinder engine it’s obvious that either bore and/or stroke will need to be reduced ‘if’ the overall capacity isn’t going to be increased by the same,or at least close,margin.In which case it’s usually better to not reduce the stroke measurement too much or a lot of the advantage of going for more cylinders gets cancelled out by the reduction in the stroke dimension which affects torque output and results in the engine needing to be run at higher speeds to get equivalent amounts of work from it.
While it’s also possible to make an oversquare engine which has a decent stroke measurement so long as overall capacity is allowed to increase to reflect it. 
I think ive got it .
I.E . V8 and 6cyl with the same or similar output the V8 should have the same or similar throw and stroke but less CC’s per cylinder . ( in other words smaller pistons )
Same end result just different way of getting there .
bowser:
I think ive got it .I.E . V8 and 6cyl with the same or similar output the V8 should have the same or similar throw and stroke but less CC’s per cylinder . ( in other words smaller pistons )
Same end result just different way of getting there .
That’s about it.A V8 with same /similar ‘overall capacity’ as an inline 6/V6 would need less capacity per cylinder in which case it’s better to do that by reducing the bore diameter than by shortening the stroke too much.Which seems to be the mistake which they made with the 903.
Interesting stuff and something i wish id gone into rather than driving the dam things 
kevmac47:
This was the ■■■■■■■ plant at Shotts, I took these pics last month. Its a sorry site now compared to its heyday.10
CJA1:
Hi “Kevmac47” Just as a matter of interest, does NMT Idustrial Storage still have that site, worked for them Prob around 1970ish, they used to store a lot of the ■■■■■■■ stuff/ and a massive amount of United Glass, just a long shot, we were based at Kilbuck Lane Haydock, Cheers Chris.
CJA1:
kevmac47:
This was the ■■■■■■■ plant at Shotts, I took these pics last month. Its a sorry site now compared to its heyday.10CJA1:
Hi “Kevmac47” Just as a matter of interest, does NMT Idustrial Storage still have that site, worked for them Prob around 1970ish, they used to store a lot of the ■■■■■■■ stuff/ and a massive amount of United Glass, just a long shot, we were based at Kilbuck Lane Haydock, Cheers Chris.Hello Chris, I didn’t notice Nmt at Shotts, but I will check the next time I go there. I was delivering to a packaging company in there, from what I could see most of the place is derelict and empty. Regards Kev.
kevmac47:
CJA1:
kevmac47:
This was the ■■■■■■■ plant at Shotts, I took these pics last month. Its a sorry site now compared to its heyday.10CJA1:
Hi “Kevmac47” Just as a matter of interest, does NMT Idustrial Storage still have that site, worked for them Prob around 1970ish, they used to store a lot of the ■■■■■■■ stuff/ and a massive amount of United Glass, just a long shot, we were based at Kilbuck Lane Haydock, Cheers Chris.Hello Chris, I didn’t notice Nmt at Shotts, but I will check the next time I go there. I was delivering to a packaging company in there, from what I could see most of the place is derelict and empty. Regards Kev.
CJA1:
Hi Kev" thanks for that mate, it"s interesting to see how/where these Company"s get to, when weve had a link to there past, Regards Chris.
G’day all,and ‘Bonjour Matelot’ to Saviem. My new Hip joint is Bonzer thank you, but, my gait is still a little Long John Silver, less parrot obviously. Oversquare obviously touched a nerve and I note ‘Bewick’ is on message from our standpoint. Should we try Part Load Loop’s next?
The photo’s of Shotts buildings just show how times change, I spent the better part of 1968 working out of the tech office in Shotts covering Scotland, sad to see it in today’s light. Your mention of the Henry Meadows works reminded me that Stan Hartshorne, the engine designer, whom I think was ex Meadows, was at ■■■■■■■ during my term there. We often had chats about how Hugh G. got such good BSFC’s across his range of engines, but, in the end I think we decided that both companies were pursuing very different goals albeit they were making similar products. I’m now off to do my Physio and have a kip.
5Valve:
Your mention of the Henry Meadows works reminded me that Stan Hartshorne, the engine designer, whom I think was ex Meadows, was at ■■■■■■■ during my term there. We often had chats about how Hugh G. got such good BSFC’s across his range of engines, but, in the end I think we decided that both companies were pursuing very different goals albeit they were making similar products.
Any chance of a transscript of these discussions? 
For 5valve
Any idea how Esso faired with those V8/V6(whichever) Dodge 16 tonners with Allison auto boxes,Esso engineers must have gone through various specs before arriving at the decision to order 145 of them(according to the CM archives),I knew they bought some but was surprised the order was so big.