Stewart Cameron of Drymen had one of the first ( if not the first ) 250 ■■■■■■■ powered ERFs B series if i remember rightly it was on the stand at the Scottish Moter show N plate cant remember the full reg, what i do remember was that the guy driving it turned it over on its way home and the cab had to be sorted before i t started earning a living!! It had a 9 speed Fuller box non turbo, once you got it wound up it was ok but for some reason always flat on the hills the 220s ■■■■■■■ and rolls could always leave it. You had to work it hard on hilly work and as a result it was heavy on fuel it was maybe wot we used to call a Friday afternoon moter.
pete 359:
hi all,
the 220’s i remember were all bad starters in the cold weather.the nhc 14litre 250 was no problem starting,though the thirst for diesel put a lot of operators of running them.i always thought the 220 was an 11litreyou never stop learning
regards andrew.
It’s all about timing, and batteries. Get the first a little bit out, and the second a little less than perfect and things will not be at their best… Unfortunately a product of the PT fuel system I think, the pressure needs to be built up. On the plus side, you nearly always have oil pressure before they start!..
Most ■■■■■■■ engined vehicles were supposed to have 4 6 volt batteries, most ended up with 2 12’s. not the same capacity.
The later 14 l engines in leyland, foden etc. had start pilot fitted. Basically just ether.
pete 359:
hi all,
the 220’s i remember were all bad starters in the cold weather.the nhc 14litre 250 was no problem starting,though the thirst for diesel put a lot of operators of running them.i always thought the 220 was an 11litre
regards andrew.
Back to night school for you and me Andrew !! With regard to bad starting,we fitted some of the ■■■■■■■ with the Fleetguard canister which you gave the engine a shot and knock knock knock,up it fired,it only needed one measured shot though.The can was fitted to the back of the atki cab and the control knob was in the cab.I can’t recall any of our motors needing a “start” down the road,and IIRC our one and only 180 ■■■■■■■ was a bit difficult to crack-up sometimes but it had covered a lot of hard miles it its time ! Cheers Dennis.
Evening all, …■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ the worlds best engine, (of its time)...I loved them, 180s 205s 220s, (getting a bit thirsty now), but what a joy to drive!
Then Ive no experience untill the 80s, 14litre, (oh I`ve always loved ■■■■■■■■■■ and 10 litre, what a little "goer, a gorgeous engine, with a delightful exhaust note…and cheap to run…(now it was my “personal” money involved!
What great people to work with, so positive, so helpful, and what “cheap” engines to repair.
For me it will always be ■■■■■■■■
Cheerio for now.
Agree with Foden S80 about the fuel pipes etc. IIRC the 12.2l had 4 head bolts and the 14 litre 6 per head.
The older 205/220 ■■■■■■■ came a sick nappy yellow colour 
the 250/14 litre came a nice light mushroom brown colour 
.
The 14litre was a good engine still not the best to start but the smaller 220 was poor great at blowing smoke rings
out the pipe when trying to start. 
The colour is ■■■■■■■ Old Gold and you can still get it from ■■■■■■■■
This is a 1958 262 which was a 220 with a turbo.
They have 6 head bolts
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=88007&p=1238574
Any chance of tacking this thread onto the end of the earlier one, mods? Make it easier to find things etc.
While I am here, does anyone have any knowledge or experience of the VINE engine- a 12.? litre V8, which was considered to be the lorry engine of the future (in GB, at least) in the early 1960s?
I drove a Atkinson viewline “J” reg. 71 from nearly new it had a 250 ■■■■■■■ which was the ■■■■■■■ gold colour and on heavy haulage it was quite good on fuel as running around 60 tons gross it would do around 5 mpg loaded which was better than the scammells could achieve with the power plus in at lower gross weights. I would say the main reason for this was you had to keep below 35 mph loaded otherwise you were blowing tyres out and 35 mph equated to around 1500/1600 revs. and in around 4 years I drove it the only problems I can recall were a split power steering pipe. My dad drove it after I left and it was nearly 8 years old when it needed a new clutch but he said it was always the same on fuel.
cheers Johnnie
8LXBV8BRIAN:
The older 205/220 ■■■■■■■ came a sick nappy yellow colour
The 14litre was a good engine still not the best to start but the smaller 220 was poor great at blowing smoke rings
out the pipe when trying to start.
Here’s a ■■■■■■■ Brian, In my opinion its the “dogs danglies” Like you I’m not in the least bit prejudice when it comes to engines!!! You know where to stick your Gardners. 
Regards Kev. 
[zb]
anorak:
■■■■■■■ Engines - OLD TIME LORRIES, COMPANIES AND DRIVERS (INTERACT - Trucknet UK
Any chance of tacking this thread onto the end of the earlier one, mods? Make it easier to find things etc.While I am here, does anyone have any knowledge or experience of the VINE engine- a 12.? litre V8, which was considered to be the lorry engine of the future (in GB, at least) in the early 1960s?
Not heard of the Vine but if it was anything like the Vale it wouldn’t be popular with operators here that had bad experiences with vee engines, not to mention drivers hearing !
sammyopisite:
I drove a Atkinson viewline “J” reg. 71 from nearly new it had a 250 ■■■■■■■ which was the ■■■■■■■ gold colour and on heavy haulage it was quite good on fuel as running around 60 tons gross it would do around 5 mpg loaded which was better than the scammells could achieve with the power plus in at lower gross weights. I would say the main reason for this was you had to keep below 35 mph loaded otherwise you were blowing tyres out and 35 mph equated to around 1500/1600 revs. and in around 4 years I drove it the only problems I can recall were a split power steering pipe. My dad drove it after I left and it was nearly 8 years old when it needed a new clutch but he said it was always the same on fuel.cheers Johnnie
Johnnie, I had a big j with the pre big cam 290, I only got 5mpg from that but my cruising speed was probably double yours
I didn’t have the nerve to take it to it’s top speed
No engine problems with them but they often broke exhaust pipes at the turbo but seeing as it sat out on the catwalk it was an east fix.
That was for BRS by the way, 28 miles to the hour ? yeh right, not at our place it was never strong on union rules, we even had sleeper cabs very early on too. The boss was easy going, as long as the motor earned at least £1500 a week we never saw him.
[zb]
anorak:
■■■■■■■ Engines - OLD TIME LORRIES, COMPANIES AND DRIVERS (INTERACT - Trucknet UK
Any chance of tacking this thread onto the end of the earlier one, mods? Make it easier to find things etc.While I am here, does anyone have any knowledge or experience of the VINE engine- a 12.? litre V8, which was considered to be the lorry engine of the future (in GB, at least) in the early 1960s?
I fully accept that the V8 ■■■■■■■ Vale had a bad reputation during the few years it was installed in the Ford D1000 and the Dodge,but I have got to say the one I drove gave perfect service,it never missed a beat during the time I ran it.I would add that during this time I was the only driver and I did treat the motor with respect,but boy,could it pick it’s feet up if I was “chasing a bit” I could fly past anything else on the road at that time ! Cheers Bewick.
Trev_H:
sammyopisite:
I drove a Atkinson viewline “J” reg. 71 from nearly new it had a 250 ■■■■■■■ which was the ■■■■■■■ gold colour and on heavy haulage it was quite good on fuel as running around 60 tons gross it would do around 5 mpg loaded which was better than the scammells could achieve with the power plus in at lower gross weights. I would say the main reason for this was you had to keep below 35 mph loaded otherwise you were blowing tyres out and 35 mph equated to around 1500/1600 revs. and in around 4 years I drove it the only problems I can recall were a split power steering pipe. My dad drove it after I left and it was nearly 8 years old when it needed a new clutch but he said it was always the same on fuel.cheers Johnnie
Johnnie, I had a big j with the pre big cam 290, I only got 5mpg from that but my cruising speed was probably double yours
I didn’t have the nerve to take it to it’s top speed
No engine problems with them but they often broke exhaust pipes at the turbo but seeing as it sat out on the catwalk it was an east fix.
That was for BRS by the way, 28 miles to the hour ? yeh right, not at our place it was never strong on union rules, we even had sleeper cabs very early on too. The boss was easy going, as long as the motor earned at least £1500 a week we never saw him.
Trev I reckon that there is a few gaffers who would like to earn that now
cheers Johnnie 
When the first Ford Transcons arrived they had the three versions of the 14 litre ■■■■■■■ turbo 335 at 270, 335 & 370 but the 250 was a naturally aspirated 15.5 litre iirc. these were known within Ford as the super 250’s. They produced rated power at 2300 rpm against the turbo engines 2100 and with the standard driveline, direct drive and a 3.7 diff could pop on a bit. When the big cam arrived late 78 the baby engine was a derated version of the E290 at 240bhp. I’m not sure if the 15 litres were supplied in other ■■■■■■■ engined tucks, ERF, Foden etc. Anyone else seen or heard of the Super 250?
kevmac47:
8LXBV8BRIAN:
The older 205/220 ■■■■■■■ came a sick nappy yellow colour
The 14litre was a good engine still not the best to start but the smaller 220 was poor great at blowing smoke rings
out the pipe when trying to start.Here’s a ■■■■■■■ Brian, In my opinion its the “dogs danglies” Like you I’m not in the least bit prejudice when it comes to engines!!! You know where to stick your Gardners.
F.F.S Kev thats been on a sun bed or its had tango pop in the coolant not anti-freeze its jaffa orange. 
-
and you had the tea bag ■■■■■■■ at Waughs allways coming to the boil ,one lump or two. 
Broadside re Super 250s I had one in a transcon reg 235p Prior to me owning it the guy that had it used to run Greece with it ,he parked it up in a barn next door to his house in the late 70s it was stood up on blocks and he used to start it up periodicly. I had heard of this moter and approached the chap with a veiw to buying it ,but he wouldnt sell, several people also tried but no go. Mid 80s I got a phone call from a solicitor handling the guys estate, He had been working on a tipper with the body unpropped when it came down and killed him. His wife had been going through his address book and my number had come to light, The solicitor asked me would i give them 300 pound for it I agreed and was given a week to pay and move i. I went down and 72hrs later drove it home put it in my workshop did work on the cab and various other bits and pieces ( but no work on the drive line ) painted it ,mot,ed taxed it and RAN it until 2006 when i parked the old girl up. In that time it ran home and abroad and the engine,gearbox and backaxle never missed abeat. The 250 Super went like a train and pulled well it had plenty of bottom end people didnt believe me when told it wasnt turbocharged, it usedto return 6.5 / 7 to the gallon. With regard the man asking about the V engines I also had a V6 but thats another story!
Broadslide:
When the first Ford Transcons arrived they had the three versions of the 14 litre ■■■■■■■ turbo 335 at 270, 335 & 370 but the 250 was a naturally aspirated 15.5 litre iirc. these were known within Ford as the super 250’s. They produced rated power at 2300 rpm against the turbo engines 2100 and with the standard driveline, direct drive and a 3.7 diff could pop on a bit. When the big cam arrived late 78 the baby engine was a derated version of the E290 at 240bhp. I’m not sure if the 15 litres were supplied in other ■■■■■■■ engined tucks, ERF, Foden etc. Anyone else seen or heard of the Super 250?
Interesting what you say Broadslide about a de-rated E290 in the Transcon. Many years ago when I did a spell on traffic at the long since defunct Northwest Freighters they had an odd-ball SA 400 day cab, LED637W to be exact, which had a NTE255, which would have been around 240 net installed. Nobody really seemed to know the full story other than it was rare, if not unique in an Atki, as it was supposed to be a Ford only engine. It went like stink, about 78 mph from memory and pulled way better than the NT240’s in the bulk of the fleet at that time. Fuel on the other hand, oh dear, oh dear; low 6’s if memory serves, and payloads rarely exceeded 12 tonnes.
Plenty of stuff about the longer-stroke 250 on Google,for example:
roundtable.truck.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=4863
hankstruckforum.com/htforum/inde … ic=41764.0
I found these excellent articles in the CM archives about the Transcon, mentioning all the “odd” ■■■■■■■ 250 specifications Ford used, including the Super 252 (as they call it), the derated NTC250E and the derated E255 (I wonder if this was just a name Ford gave the NT240?):
archive.commercialmotor.com/arti … f-its-time
archive.commercialmotor.com/arti … ine-switch
IIRC, the original Transcon had a modified NTC350, called an NTC355.
Edit- just found this. I was looking for information about the Vine engine, and found a complete history of ■■■■■■■■ books.google.co.uk/books?id=JeS- … &q&f=false
Thanks Anorak, for posting the info regarding the ■■■■■■■ book. It brings back many memories of my time spent with them putting fires out with the Val/Vales, Vim’s and occasionally NH’s and NT’s in the UK, in the mid -late 60’s.
For those of you on the truck side of the business, the original automotive engine Shotts supplied was the NHE 180 which
went up to a max of 220hp later in it’s life, the US designation was 742 cu. in. The NH250 range was 855cu.in, this was also available in turbo’d form up to 380hp, i.e. NT380, but, this was invairiably for construction use with only occasional automotive use at 335 and 380 for the likes of Scammell for heavy load work. The Super 250 engine used by Ford was 927 cu.in., as always they wanted to be different from the pack, as they had been when wanting detail changes to the V8 Vale engine, for the D1000 range, to differentiate themselves from the Dodge K series.