Christmas Driver Shortage

simcor:

Rjan:

simcor:
I’m not saying DHL are perfect but they have helped keep people employed.

But only on poorer pay and conditions. There is always employment available at lower pay and conditions than the current norm, because you can always get a job by working for less and undermining someone else’s job. But if you keep doing it, and others respond in kind by doing the same to you, eventually you’ll all be getting less in wages than you need to eat, let alone achieve a decent standard of living.

Sometimes it can be better to let a firm go bust, because by causing an employer to forfeit capital and reducing the number of employers in the market, you create market discipline, you create job opportunities for yourself in other firms (when they take people on to soak up the demand the bankrupt firm used to meet), and by consolidating the marketplace and eliminating competition you reduce the possibility of attacks on your wages in future.

Any business looks to find ways to streamline costs to make it more profitable when needs must.

And in a competitive market, the need will always be present.

Not too mention there were I believe 5 different companies tendering for it at the time and DHL got the tender.

It’s a fact of life that businesses have to restructure at times of need and cut costs wherever they can, something has to give.

So it would have been better to let an over 100 year old business cease trading and make a lot of people unemployed than cutting costs wherever needed?

Just the same as MG Rover was allowed to go bust at the time loosing 6000 jobs and far wider job loses to suppliers etc.

The same goes for all the businesses that have gone bust because the government didn’t step in and bail them out, but it’s OK if your a bank then the government will step in bail you out to the tune of billions most likely.

When business go bust it has far wider consequences than just it’s employees at that company.

I’m sure Ferrero since acquiring Thornton’s have streamlined the business to make it more profitable. But again it keeps people employed.

Not much point in being employed but in debt,possibly homeless and relying on in work benefits and food banks.Which is the logical conclusion of race to the bottom economics.On that note Rover was slaughtered on the ideology of free market economics when it needed protectionist policies to survive.Not because its workers rightly saw no point in being poor and working for the privilege. :unamused:

AndrewG:

grumpyken52:
Time the rule book was torn up and rewritten to simplify it and ONE set of rules to run to .

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

^
This all day long…
I’d actually prefer it if the rule book was just torn up …end of…

Tongue in cheek before i get jumped on… :stuck_out_tongue:

It’s clear to me Andrew that you’re a free spirit with no need for any rule book… :slight_smile:

tachograph:
It’s a story in the Sun about recruitment agency bosses saying they’re not able to recruit enough drivers for the pre Christmas season.

The Sun newspaper and recruitment agencies … now there’s a combination everyone would want to take seriously :smiley:

It’s in most of the papers this week.

I’m looking at doing my Telehandlers licence
Or articulated dumper truck .£1500 all in and £16 pounds an hour on average ,No more than 50 hours a week.
I seriously doubt I will be driving trucks much longer.
I’ve only been doing it 13 months on class 1 And i hate the way you guys are treated “Most of the time” .

Jimmy McNulty:
Think its further up the food chain where the consumer demand for lower and lower prices drives down prices throughout.

But consumers are the most numerous entity in the market and the least organised - they take whatever prices are offered. When was the last time you went into a shop and told the manager “these prices are too high, you’re going to have to cut wages”? :laughing:

It’s not a conversation that consumers have with retailers - not least because such mental engagement in the mechanics of the marketplace would quickly lead consumers to realise that they are also workers, and what they gain on Saturday morning in cheaper prices will be lost on Monday morning in reduced wages.

The only time consumers bargain is in sectors where there is a large mark-up, and they understand that they are bargaining over the amount of profit the seller receives on a single (often a wholly discretionary or luxury) purchase, not bargaining about the overall economic settlement between the workers of an industry and its consumers.

When bosses say consumers are forcing down prices, they mean other bosses are forcing down prices by setting up new businesses or outlets and choosing to offer cheaper prices for the same goods - whereupon those same bosses say the workers then have to accept wage cuts to pay for the reduced prices.

Or alternatively, if wages are being attacked in general in order to boost profits and returns on capital, and therefore the amount of money most consumers have to spend in the economy is being reduced (most consumers having only earnings as their sole source of income), the bosses will say this must be responded to by further wage cuts (which will ultimately exacerbate the problem, unless those with unearned income make up the consumption which earners have lost, which they rarely do, because most unearned income is saved and reinvested, not spent on personal consumption in the same proportion as wages are).

The reason why unearned income is rarely spent as fully as wages are, is because those who have appreciable unearned incomes tend to be wealthy and already able to meet their personal consumption needs fairly fully (if they aren’t wealthy enough to live decently, then the temptation arises to spend and draw down on the capital, which reduces the unearned income, and eventually they are forced into the position of being a pure wage earner who spends 100% of wages).

The already wealthy who are not forced to spend their capital or all their income on personal consumption, are typically looking to enhance the amount of capital they possess which forms the basis of unearned income - this is not just to protect the real value of the capital against inflation, but also to provide ballast against the loss of the unearned income, to further reduce the amount of time they need to spend earning (if any) in order to afford their standard of living, and possibly to provide other members of their family with similar unearned incomes.

To put this into terms most people will understand readily, if you have £100,000 in the bank and receive interest (which is a form of unearned income, but not the only kind), firstly you need to retain some interest each year add to the £100,000 to maintain it’s real value against inflation, secondly you’ll try and put even more away in order to protect against a possible future reduction in interest rates or other risks, thirdly you’ll try and increase the capital so that eventually the unearned income means you don’t need to work any more, and fourthly you’ll try and put even more away so that you can eventually give your kids access to unearned incomes (as well as continuing to draw one yourself).

But when the economy is suffering a crisis of mass consumer spending (caused in the first place by the retention of too much capital and the existence of too many unearned income claims), this will exacerbate it. The main driver of the current crisis is the amount of debt that exists in the economy, where large proportions of earned incomes are being transferred to lenders and rentiers, not spent on goods and services.

For every buy-to-let landlord, for example, who is ekeing out a bit of unearned income from a few properties, there is typically a bank behind them who are getting a steady 5% a year on the amount lent. And predominantly, that 5% is not spent by the recipients but if it is retained by the bank then it goes searching for new borrowers, or if it is passed to shareholders then it goes searching for new shares to invest in, always tending to be stored and reinvested in greater overall proportion than do wage-earners with their wages.

Businesses that depend on economies of scale and mass markets then collapse - you can’t build a modern large car factory, for example, and offer cars at reasonable unit prices, if the only market you can cater to is the super-rich. And bespoke, luxury operations tend to employ fewer people (because they create fewer units) and have to recoup the fixed capital investment (made in car design, factory equipment, marketing, etc.) from a smaller number of units produced (meaning that prices are far higher relative to the value of each unit, and that in turn puts them out of reach of far more people, making the available market even more niche).

simcor:
Not too mention there were I believe 5 different companies tendering for it at the time and DHL got the tender.

It’s a fact of life that businesses have to restructure at times of need and cut costs wherever they can, something has to give.

So it would have been better to let an over 100 year old business cease trading and make a lot of people unemployed than cutting costs wherever needed?

Yes, if the costs which are proposed to be cut are the very wages of those employed! The point of being employed, the value in being employed, is from the wages received. There’s no point being employed if it comes at the expense of the wages you reasonably expect to receive from the employment.

Just the same as MG Rover was allowed to go bust at the time loosing 6000 jobs and far wider job loses to suppliers etc.

But the effect of that is that there is more demand for cars from the remaining suppliers, those suppliers have a more guaranteed sale market, and there will be more demand for workers to make those cars.

If we employ the opposite logic, we would have 10,000 car manufacturers, all employing people, but the market would be so competitive that no company could afford to pay any of its workers hardly any wages. And the least successful operations would never leave the market, whilst those which have ideas about how to be successful and efficient (in a way that is beneficial to workers), but which have to make investment in equipment or processes or training to become successful, would never have the breathing room to recoup any investment or be assured of gaining any further market share (because every investment by the successful firm, would be met by the unsuccessful firms demanding wage cuts to stay competitive and remain afloat).

The same goes for all the businesses that have gone bust because the government didn’t step in and bail them out, but it’s OK if your a bank then the government will step in bail you out to the tune of billions most likely.

Nobody is in favour of bank shareholders being bailed out. The crucial thing about the banks is that their routine operations cannot be allowed to cease even momentarily. Car factories shut down for weeks at a time all the time, and consumers are rarely intimately dependent on a particular model of car rolling off the production line at a particular moment in time.

If a bank shuts down (i.e. the computer system at its core is shut down), it does it for a few hours in the middle of the night, with plenty of advance warning, plenty of advance planning, and plenty of hands on deck to make sure it starts up again (quite possibly with world experts being summoned, shaken awake from their beds and put on planes, if the restart doesn’t go to plan and gets out of hand).

When business go bust it has far wider consequences than just it’s employees at that company.

I’m sure Ferrero since acquiring Thornton’s have streamlined the business to make it more profitable. But again it keeps people employed.

I agree bankruptcy is not the optimal result - normally what you’d expect is for a failing business to be sold and absorbed, or for it to have never started up in the first place. But it is the threat of bankruptcy which disciplines the bosses and provides a barrier to entry to low-productivity firms (because poor quality firms, knowing they will forfeit all their capital and that their workers will not accept pay reductions, either wind up their operation and leave production to those firms which best know how, or they actually have their capital taken off them in bankruptcy and are prevented from setting up to compete in future).

All you apparently have at Thorntons (a firm about which I have no particular knowledge), is workers buying the right to keep working, and therefore undercutting any remaining firms which pay better wages.

Carryfast:
Not much point in being employed but in debt,possibly homeless and relying on in work benefits and food banks.Which is the logical conclusion of race to the bottom economics.On that note Rover was slaughtered on the ideology of free market economics when it needed protectionist policies to survive.Not because its workers rightly saw no point in being poor and working for the privilege. :unamused:

Bottom line is that there were and are just too many manufacturers doing the same thing - someone has to leave the market somehow.

Rjan:

simcor:
I’m not saying DHL are perfect but they have helped keep people employed.

But only on poorer pay and conditions. There is always employment available at lower pay and conditions than the current norm, because you can always get a job by working for less and undermining someone else’s job. But if you keep doing it, and others respond in kind by doing the same to you, eventually you’ll all be getting less in wages than you need to eat, let alone achieve a decent standard of living.

Sometimes it can be better to let a firm go bust, because by causing an employer to forfeit capital and reducing the number of employers in the market, you create market discipline, you create job opportunities for yourself in other firms (when they take people on to soak up the demand the bankrupt firm used to meet), and by consolidating the marketplace and eliminating competition you reduce the possibility of attacks on your wages in future.

Any business looks to find ways to streamline costs to make it more profitable when needs must.

And in a competitive market, the need will always be present.

DHL are one of the best payers in the Industry.
Pay £3 an more more than Stobrats around my way.

commonrail:
The thing that irks me the most is the overtime rates.
Recent thread on here about Thorntons.
My mate worked there,before DHL had anything to do with it…and he earn’t a small fortune at it.
Still banging the hours in,and still nighting out…but earning serious wonga.
He quit,as soon as DHL took over.

Did your m8 leave because DHL took over or did he leave when the ££ signs started to flash at the thought of what he could do with a load of redundancy cash.

Didn’t we have the exact same story last Christmas? As I recall, shelves were still full and everything got delivered. Simply panic mongering from haulers who want the government to solve a problem of their own creation, poor working conditions.

Rjan:

Carryfast:
Not much point in being employed but in debt,possibly homeless and relying on in work benefits and food banks.Which is the logical conclusion of race to the bottom economics.On that note Rover was slaughtered on the ideology of free market economics when it needed protectionist policies to survive.Not because its workers rightly saw no point in being poor and working for the privilege. :unamused:

Bottom line is that there were and are just too many manufacturers doing the same thing - someone has to leave the market somehow.

If it was a case of supposed over capacity then we’d obviously have wanted to stop imports of Mercs BMW’s and other German made GM and Ford products competing with Jaguar,Rover and Triumph adding to it.Instead of which Rover and Triumph and almost Jaguar were slaughtered to leave that market sector wide open to the foreign competition.Ironically for this argument also often made by better paid German workers. :unamused: When it’s clear that our industry was subjected to a foreign aid exercise to create more jobs for better paid German workers.With ours then being told to compete on the basis of accepting less pay for more work making more downmarket products.The rest is history. :unamused:

Didn’t The Sun used to (maybe still does) run adverts for well known training brokers constantly?

I’m sure there is absolutely no link between high paying advertising client and a story that encourages people to take up the adverts exaggerated claims.

Sort of like when the supermarket who advertises with the paper constantly always seems to win the “best mince pies” review.

kjw21:
Didn’t The Sun used to (maybe still does) run adverts for well known training brokers constantly?

I’m sure there is absolutely no link between high paying advertising client and a story that encourages people to take up the adverts exaggerated claims.

Sort of like when the supermarket who advertises with the paper constantly always seems to win the “best mince pies” review.

And you’ve won cynic of the year award :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

It’s in most of the papers this week.

I’m looking at doing my Telehandlers licence
Or articulated dumper truck .£1500 all in and £16 pounds an hour on average ,No more than 50 hours a week.
I seriously doubt I will be driving trucks much longer.
I’ve only been doing it 13 months on class 1 And i hate the way you guys are treated “Most of the time” .
[/quote]
I’d be careful before parting with any $$$ for a artic dumper license…
Took a weeks course just over 12 months ago & thankfully passed & I have to admit after trying every possible avenue I’ve not set foot in a ADT since passing my test!
I was lead down the garden path by Flannery plant hire, in a nutshell I got told “massive shortage, minimum £15 per hour, we pay for accommodation etc etc” when in fact it was complete bollox.
You will find that plant hire agencies don’t pay for ‘digs’ & unfortunately that means if you don’t live near a massive development then it’s a case of living in a camper.
The advice I’m giving you is the advice that I wish someone had given me last year & I’d be £1800 in pocket.
If you need any more info then pm me.

I realised transport wasn’t for me at the age of 22 :laughing: from 18 I was driving vans all over Europe then moved onto class 2 tramping for a couple of years and to date I’ve done 3 runs using my class 1 :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

For me being a relative youngster compared to most drivers (25) it was the combination of crap pay, long hours and constantly being pushed because I was young (or so it felt.) I loved driving and was sad to give it up but I didn’t love it enough to give up my life for it, I can’t argue with earning more for 36 hours p/w atm either so I’ve been a JLR factory drone for the past 3 and a half years.

I’m not surprised there is a shortage the way things are tbh

lolipop:

commonrail:
The thing that irks me the most is the overtime rates.
Recent thread on here about Thorntons.
My mate worked there,before DHL had anything to do with it…and he earn’t a small fortune at it.
Still banging the hours in,and still nighting out…but earning serious wonga.
He quit,as soon as DHL took over.

Did your m8 leave because DHL took over or did he leave when the ££ signs started to flash at the thought of what he could do with a load of redundancy cash.

He didn’t get any redundancy.
Just emptied his cab and told them to shove it

I can’t see a plant licence being any better than anything else, it doesn’t matter if you are on £20 an hour if there is no work or you are only working from 9am until 3.30pm, people quote “my missus gets £15 an hour stacking shelves, that’s quite possible but her shift is only 4 hours or 16 hours a week

Load of old crap. It’s the same old nonsense from companies who outsource everything then wonder why they have a supply issue. There’s no such thing as a driver shortage, there’s a shortage of drivers prepared to tolerate working for agencies who have them doing multidrop ■■■■■ nobody else wants to do for 8.50/hr.

If more companies hired direct (especially for Class 2), they could afford to pay the drivers the same as what they pay the agencies, they’d be turning applicants away. But no, that involves effort.

Edit: Like to point out that I don’t have a family and don’t care how long I spend at home, and don’t shy away from hard work. For the last few months, I’ve been banging on and on to different companies and agencies about how I want to be working nights, preferably trunking or tramping. Despite them “struggling” to get anyone to work nights, there’s a surprising lack of vacancies…

Then they just go and bring it on themselves. Didn’t even get a reply from an application I sent off a few weeks ago, for example. Didn’t put much info on it, on purpose - as so far everyone seems to be scared off by the fact I’ve only got 1 year HGV experience, and apart from getting a truck wedged down a back lane in my first week, my last 7 years professional driving experience have been accident-free. Clean license, ready to start now, nope, not enough, you need 6 months experience. “Oh did we say 6? We mean 12 months.” “Oh, no you were told wrong, we want 2 years”. Sod off.

blue estate:
And you’ve won cynic of the year award :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

I find that cynicism is just another word for experience. :wink:

Quinny:
3 days work on the agency at this time of year? As a former agency man myself of 10 years standing, it was basically a blank cheque at this time.

Can’t blame him for knocking it on the head though. I reckon he is just the tip of a very large iceberg.

Ken.

If those three days turned out to be 15+15+15 and the demand made of you to put in another 3 shifts the same - then wouldn’t you be standing down yourself for the rest of the week, just to stay legal and alive?

I recall plenty of weeks I found myself working the max legal 3x15 hour shifts in the same week… Tesco, C&H/Downtons, & F&W spring to mind. The agency I was with paid a “right through” rate, which encouraged clients to max out one’s hours - because you were not getting time-and-a-half after 8 hours. :frowning: The upside was that I didn’t go short of work, although I did get henpecked a few times to work some days in a week I actually wanted off, for no particular reason…

AndrewG:

eagerbeaver:

Richard8:
I have not driven in four years but I often get the urge to do the odd shift as I now work a 37.5 hour working week it feels strange (but good) to have my weekends free, there’s something about driving that’s in my blood from going out with my dad as a young boy but i bet that being stuck in an RDC for 4 or more hours would cure my hankering.

You are bang on with that comment Richard. I am also a lorry drivers son and I was just about to pack in lorry driving after only 3.5 years :neutral_face:

General haulage/RDC’s had just about finished me off, but I managed to get a start on a really good job and now I almost enjoy driving the wagon :grimacing:

General happened to be and still is my favourite work but RDC’s, just by what i read on this very forum alone seems extremely depressing work. Security/ FLT cabbages along with the naziesque warehouse mongs, keys being handed in, being confined to a room and having to sit on a plastic chair for hours on end would i imagine be enough to do anyones head in if it was a regular occurance… :frowning:

I enjoy my general too to be fair. Yeah the RDCs rip the ■■■■ and generally when I see one on my manifest (usually first on the manifest) it puts me in a mard until Ive cleared it but then I’ll head off to deliver feed to a farm or something so it balances out