Bit of advice if you want it Cliffster.
Cancel your training and test. Put your money into 360 excavator’s and/or other plant machinery tickets. Far better pay, far better hours and far better conditions. Driving trucks is heading towards an almost minimum wage job.
DickyNick:
Not bitter just stating what I see from alleged experienced drivers on a daily basis.
A very generalised opinion there mate.
So are you saying the more experienced the worse they are or what?
Your description of bad drivers is very true, whether or not it has any correlation with amount of experience is debatable, it’s more to do with incompetence, inability, and attitude rather than experience.
I ain’t saying I’m better than anyone else because I ain’t, but as a much and varied experienced driver, I certainly do not behave like that.
robroy:
DickyNick:
Not bitter just stating what I see from alleged experienced drivers on a daily basis.A very generalised opinion there mate.
So are you saying the more experienced the worse they are or what?
Your description of bad drivers is very true, whether or not it has any correlation with amount of experience is debatable, it’s more to do with incompetence, inability, and attitude rather than experience.
I ain’t saying I’m better than anyone else because I ain’t, but as a much and varied experienced driver, I certainly do not behave like that.
Honestly? Yes. I think general standards are worse from experienced guys than from new passes. Yes the experienced guy might be able to blind side reverse onto a bay in less than 3 shunts leaving the new pass there for 3 hours doing it, but out in the road I’d say a new pass keeps his distance better, doesn’t leave braking so late, and has more respect for the Highway Code.
Also present a trailer each full of ton pallets of drinks one to an experienced driver and one to a new pass and say each of you make that good for going on the road as you see fit, no conferring. Bet you’ll see more new passes doing it properly with ratchets and more experienced guys shutting the curtains and going.
robroy:
DickyNick:
Not bitter just stating what I see from alleged experienced drivers on a daily basis.A very generalised opinion there mate.
So are you saying the more experienced the worse they are or what?
Your description of bad drivers is very true, whether or not it has any correlation with amount of experience is debatable, it’s more to do with incompetence, inability, and attitude rather than experience.
I ain’t saying I’m better than anyone else because I ain’t, but as a much and varied experienced driver, I certainly do not behave like that.
Of course experience has a part and there are plenty incompetent experienced drivers for sure and plenty with severly bad attitudes. One of the biggest problems with experience is complacency.
Been doing it this way for years and never had a problem etc and with the attitude nobody can tell me because I know it all already.
Of course saying that there are plenty good experienced drivers with decent attitudes and who keep up with all the latest HC etc.
I remember as a youngster how older drivers thought they were the bees knees and us new starts were useless. It’s always been the same however nowadays I would say standards and attitudes from both young and old have never been so bad. Probably a lot to do with volume of traffic but still no excuse.
DickyNick:
robroy:
DickyNick:
Not bitter just stating what I see from alleged experienced drivers on a daily basis.A very generalised opinion there mate.
So are you saying the more experienced the worse they are or what?
Your description of bad drivers is very true, whether or not it has any correlation with amount of experience is debatable, it’s more to do with incompetence, inability, and attitude rather than experience.
I ain’t saying I’m better than anyone else because I ain’t, but as a much and varied experienced driver, I certainly do not behave like that.Honestly? Yes. I think general standards are worse from experienced guys than from new passes. Yes the experienced guy might be able to blind side reverse onto a bay in less than 3 shunts leaving the new pass there for 3 hours doing it, but out in the road I’d say a new pass keeps his distance better, doesn’t leave braking so late, and has more respect for the Highway Code.
Also present a trailer each full of ton pallets of drinks one to an experienced driver and one to a new pass and say each of you make that good for going on the road as you see fit, no conferring. Bet you’ll see more new passes doing it properly with ratchets and more experienced guys shutting the curtains and going.
I agree with you however as with everything there are good and bad with both. Lets take the subject of keeping a safe distance. An awful lot do not yet ask any driver and they will tell you they do. Unfortunately everyones perception is not correct especially when it comes to some experienced drivers. Definitely on going assessments may help the problem.
jakethesnake:
robroy:
DickyNick:
Not bitter just stating what I see from alleged experienced drivers on a daily basis.A very generalised opinion there mate.
So are you saying the more experienced the worse they are or what?
Your description of bad drivers is very true, whether or not it has any correlation with amount of experience is debatable, it’s more to do with incompetence, inability, and attitude rather than experience.
I ain’t saying I’m better than anyone else because I ain’t, but as a much and varied experienced driver, I certainly do not behave like that.Of course experience has a part and there are plenty incompetent experienced drivers for sure and plenty with severley bad attitudes. One of the biggest problems with experience is complacency.
Been doing it this way for years and never had a problem etc and with the attitude nobody can tell me because I know it all already.Of course saying that there are plenty good experienced drivers with decent attitudes and who keep up with all the latest HC etc.
I remember as a youngster how older drivers thought they were the bees knees and us new starts were useless. It’s always been the same however nowadays I would say standards and attitudes from both young and old have never been so bad. Probably a lot to do with volume of traffic but still no excuse.
A discussion with a police advanced driving instructor he told me this with regards to peoples perception of experience.
“I’ve been driving for 30 years so I’ve got 30 years experience and don’t need to learn anything or do any advanced courses”
The problem is that if you’ve never done any further training then you did most of your learning in year 1. So really you’ve not got 30 years experience you’ve got 1 years experience multiplied by 30 because your just doing everything you learned in year 1 over and over. Same attitude, same mistakes, same bad habits just multiplied year after year.
Someone who admits they can learn and does extra training etc with say only 10 years driving experience but has done further training, admitted they can learn etc might actually have 10 years experience, new experience, learning and bettering themselves experience rather than 1 year experience multiplied by 30.
And that’s where complacencies come into it. Drivers who just think time served makes them good. When really it doesn’t.
DickyNick:
jakethesnake:
robroy:
DickyNick:
Not bitter just stating what I see from alleged experienced drivers on a daily basis.A very generalised opinion there mate.
So are you saying the more experienced the worse they are or what?
Your description of bad drivers is very true, whether or not it has any correlation with amount of experience is debatable, it’s more to do with incompetence, inability, and attitude rather than experience.
I ain’t saying I’m better than anyone else because I ain’t, but as a much and varied experienced driver, I certainly do not behave like that.Of course experience has a part and there are plenty incompetent experienced drivers for sure and plenty with severley bad attitudes. One of the biggest problems with experience is complacency.
Been doing it this way for years and never had a problem etc and with the attitude nobody can tell me because I know it all already.Of course saying that there are plenty good experienced drivers with decent attitudes and who keep up with all the latest HC etc.
I remember as a youngster how older drivers thought they were the bees knees and us new starts were useless. It’s always been the same however nowadays I would say standards and attitudes from both young and old have never been so bad. Probably a lot to do with volume of traffic but still no excuse.
A discussion with a police advanced driving instructor he told me this with regards to peoples perception of experience.
“I’ve been driving for 30 years so I’ve got 30 years experience and don’t need to learn anything or do any advanced courses”
The problem is that if you’ve never done any further training then you did most of your learning in year 1. So really you’ve not got 30 years experience you’ve got 1 years experience multiplied by 30 because your just doing everything you learned in year 1 over and over. Same attitude, same mistakes, same bad habits just multiplied year after year.
Someone who admits they can learn and does extra training etc with say only 10 years driving experience but has done further training, admitted they can learn etc might actually have 10 years experience, new experience, learning and bettering themselves experience rather than 1 year experience multiplied by 30.
And that’s where complacencies come into it. Drivers who just think time served makes them good. When really it doesn’t.
Just out of interest Mr Nick, how long have you been driving?..you do sound as if you have some kind of chip on your shoulder about more experienced drivers.
Like I said I don’t think I’m any better than anybody else, the only reason I am more experienced than some is because I’ve done it longer than some…that is an obvious analysis.
I am aware of my own personal level of competence, and whatever you say, experience does make you a better driver, it goes hand in hand,.and you learn by that experience.
However you are dead right, some drivers do think they can’t learn anymore, but your generalisations are a bit ott, everybody is an individual with individual levels of competence, ability and attitude.
I know good and terrible experienced drivers, I know good and terrible less experienced drivers.
DickyNick:
Also present a trailer each full of ton pallets of drinks one to an experienced driver and one to a new pass and say each of you make that good for going on the road as you see fit, no conferring. Bet you’ll see more new passes doing it properly with ratchets and more experienced guys shutting the curtains and going.
And crushing the top layer of cans so all 26 pallets are rejected?
Jimmy McNulty:
DickyNick:
Also present a trailer each full of ton pallets of drinks one to an experienced driver and one to a new pass and say each of you make that good for going on the road as you see fit, no conferring. Bet you’ll see more new passes doing it properly with ratchets and more experienced guys shutting the curtains and going.And crushing the top layer of cans so all 26 pallets are rejected?
Correct. Same as 24 pallets of bagged ingredients, shut doors and crackon, as that’s what customer wants.
Rob, perhaps I’m generalising a bit too much, but then it’s also generalising to say that newbies are worse drivers than experienced ones, because like I said whilst they might not be as good at tricky manoeuvres their actual on road driving is often better and more careful.
I’m not saying how long I’ve been driving because you’ll only shoot me down saying I’ve seen nothing, let’s just say not as long as you but I’m by no means new either. Long enough to have been round the block a few times and seen plenty.
biggriffin:
Jimmy McNulty:
DickyNick:
Also present a trailer each full of ton pallets of drinks one to an experienced driver and one to a new pass and say each of you make that good for going on the road as you see fit, no conferring. Bet you’ll see more new passes doing it properly with ratchets and more experienced guys shutting the curtains and going.And crushing the top layer of cans so all 26 pallets are rejected?
Correct. Same as 24 pallets of bagged ingredients, shut doors and crackon, as that’s what customer wants.
I’ve successfully ratchet strapped them many a time. And frankly if I do crush them I don’t care. That’s for my company to take up with the customer and come up with a solution on how to strap the load so it’s compliant. They can’t sack for me only doing what the DVSA rules say. 
Dicky when were new green l plates introduced to lgv I have only been driver 45 years and I can still learn things but I do wish I did know every thing like some on here
DickyNick:
jakethesnake:
robroy:
DickyNick:
Not bitter just stating what I see from alleged experienced drivers on a daily basis.A very generalised opinion there mate.
So are you saying the more experienced the worse they are or what?
Your description of bad drivers is very true, whether or not it has any correlation with amount of experience is debatable, it’s more to do with incompetence, inability, and attitude rather than experience.
I ain’t saying I’m better than anyone else because I ain’t, but as a much and varied experienced driver, I certainly do not behave like that.Of course experience has a part and there are plenty incompetent experienced drivers for sure and plenty with severley bad attitudes. One of the biggest problems with experience is complacency.
Been doing it this way for years and never had a problem etc and with the attitude nobody can tell me because I know it all already.Of course saying that there are plenty good experienced drivers with decent attitudes and who keep up with all the latest HC etc.
I remember as a youngster how older drivers thought they were the bees knees and us new starts were useless. It’s always been the same however nowadays I would say standards and attitudes from both young and old have never been so bad. Probably a lot to do with volume of traffic but still no excuse.
A discussion with a police advanced driving instructor he told me this with regards to peoples perception of experience.
“I’ve been driving for 30 years so I’ve got 30 years experience and don’t need to learn anything or do any advanced courses”
The problem is that if you’ve never done any further training then you did most of your learning in year 1. So really you’ve not got 30 years experience you’ve got 1 years experience multiplied by 30 because your just doing everything you learned in year 1 over and over. Same attitude, same mistakes, same bad habits just multiplied year after year.
Someone who admits they can learn and does extra training etc with say only 10 years driving experience but has done further training, admitted they can learn etc might actually have 10 years experience, new experience, learning and bettering themselves experience rather than 1 year experience multiplied by 30.
And that’s where complacencies come into it. Drivers who just think time served makes them good. When really it doesn’t.
Very true what you say. I have heard it many times. Part of the problem is most drivers judge themselves as very good but in reality that judgement is made usually by themselves and their opinion is usually far from the truth. Perception can differ greatly as we see from the standards today and how drivers get upset about different scenarios depending on what THEY think is correct. 
A perfect example is how some lorry drivers think a car driver doing 50 mph in the inside lane is a danger to themselves when in fact it is the clowns round about who try to bully them into going faster that are the danger.
Strange thing is 6 mph more and that is never a problem if you get my drift.
eagerbeaver:
Bit of advice if you want it Cliffster.Cancel your training and test. Put your money into 360 excavator’s and/or other plant machinery tickets. Far better pay, far better hours and far better conditions. Driving trucks is heading towards an almost minimum wage job.
This^
jakethesnake:
Very true what you say. I have heard it many times. Part of the problem is most drivers judge themselves as very good but in reality that judgement is made usually by themselves and their opinion is usually far from the truth. Perception can differ greatly as we see from the standards today and how drivers get upset about different scenarios depending on what THEY think is correct.A perfect example is how some lorry drivers think a car driver doing 50 mph in the inside lane is a danger to themselves when in fact it is the clowns round about who try to bully them into going faster that are the danger.
Strange thing is 6 mph more and that is never a problem if you get my drift.
C’mon then Jakey mate…, you say ‘most experienced drivers think they are very good’,.so let’s hear it.
I’ve already laid my cards on the table, I’ve said that I know my level of ability and competence, but don’t consider myself any better than anyone else, and that is for others to judge.
So seeing as you make a hobby out of criticising everybody else, how do you rate yourself?
(I feel a self owned trumpet solo coming on. 
)
C’mon then Jakey mate…, you say ‘most experienced drivers think they are very good’,.so let’s hear it.
I’ve already laid my cards on the table, I’ve said that I know my level of ability and competence, but don’t consider myself any better than anyone else, and that is for others to judge.
So seeing as you make a hobby out of criticising everybody else, how do you rate yourself?
Right Robbie boy, first of all let me ask you when or if you ask any of your driver mates how many tell you they are crap? I would take a guess as very very few if any?
The biggest majority of drivers think they are very good and an awful lot consider themselves above average. Of course some are but it is not possible to judge your own standard yourself.
You say you know your own level of competence and ability? How do you know?
Now getting down to the answer you are waiting for 
I am getting on in years and have been retired a while so no longer drive trucks but when I did I was regularly assessed by a competent assessor (he was a lot younger than me) and he always told me my driving was above average but lets face it with today’s standards that ain’t hard. Personally I would consider myself as average.I admit I have had faults in the past but with the amount of training I have been involved with over the years I have managed to eliviate them.
One of my biggest faults and unfortunately it still exists today is I get so angry when I see the way some drivers put others at risk. 
Every day is a learning day (that is if ya want to)
jakethesnake:
C’mon then Jakey mate…, you say ‘most experienced drivers think they are very good’,.so let’s hear it.
I’ve already laid my cards on the table, I’ve said that I know my level of ability and competence, but don’t consider myself any better than anyone else, and that is for others to judge.
So seeing as you make a hobby out of criticising everybody else, how do you rate yourself?Right Robbie boy, first of all let me ask you when or if you ask any of your driver mates how many tell you they are crap? I would take a guess as very very few if any?
The biggest majority of drivers think they are very good and an awful lot consider themselves above average. Of course some are but it is not possible to judge your own standard yourself.
You say you know your own level of competence and ability? How do you know?Now getting down to the answer you are waiting for
One of my biggest faults and unfortunately it still exists today is I get so angry when I see the way some drivers put others at risk.
That applies to any worker in any industry.
How many engineers, mechanics, butchers, bakers or candlestick makers say ‘they are crap’ at their jobs, it’s human nature.
Of course I know and everybody else know their level of competence and ability, ask Alan Shearer if he was good at football, (I ain’t saying I’m as good a driver as Shearer is/was a player btw before you jump in ) anybody knows how good or bad they are, and it does not necessarilly mean to say if you say you are good that you are rubbish, as you seem to think.
If you were crap or incompetent at doing anything you would struggle big style, and come up against it every day, not be able to do stuff, as well as making persistent ■■■■ ups, I personally do not, so that is what I make my personal judgement on…but I ain’t perfect by any means, nobody is in this job.
Tbh unlike you, I’ve never felt the need to be assessed, nor to be told how good (or bad) I am.
When I start coming unstuck everyday, notice that I get criticism and abuse and horn blasts off other road users, and generally regularly ■■■■ up in my driving and manouvering, maybe I will, but I get by thanks.
Socketset:
Every day is a learning day (that is if ya want to)
Yeah, great attitude as long as it’s good habits and not bad ones.
robroy:
jakethesnake:
C’mon then Jakey mate…, you say ‘most experienced drivers think they are very good’,.so let’s hear it.
I’ve already laid my cards on the table, I’ve said that I know my level of ability and competence, but don’t consider myself any better than anyone else, and that is for others to judge.
So seeing as you make a hobby out of criticising everybody else, how do you rate yourself?Right Robbie boy, first of all let me ask you when or if you ask any of your driver mates how many tell you they are crap? I would take a guess as very very few if any?
The biggest majority of drivers think they are very good and an awful lot consider themselves above average. Of course some are but it is not possible to judge your own standard yourself.
You say you know your own level of competence and ability? How do you know?Now getting down to the answer you are waiting for
One of my biggest faults and unfortunately it still exists today is I get so angry when I see the way some drivers put others at risk.
That applies to any worker in any industry.
How many engineers, mechanics, butchers, bakers or candlestick makers say ‘they are crap’ at their jobs, it’s human nature.
Of course I know and everybody else know their level of competence and ability, ask Alan Shearer if he was good at football, (I ain’t saying I’m as good a driver as Shearer is/was a player btw before you jump in
If you were crap or incompetent at doing anything you would struggle big style, and come up against it every day, not be able to do stuff, as well as making persistent [zb] ups, I personally do not, so that is what I make my personal judgement on…but I ain’t perfect by any means, nobody is in this job.Tbh unlike you, I’ve never felt the need to be assessed, nor to be told how good (or bad) I am.
When I start coming unstuck everyday, notice that I get criticism and abuse and horn blasts off other road users, and generally regularly [zb] up in my driving and manouvering, maybe I will, but I get by thanks.
Thing is rob one day you may have a crash whether your fault or not having done some sort of advanced driver training more than likely would have made you avoid the crash, even if not at fault. Most drivers roll about with the attitude well I’m in the right I’m the best driver ever, other driver is wrong so if I crash it’s their fault, their insurance claim, them in trouble with the law etc etc
Advanced driving teaches you to get rid of that attitude and teaches you it’s better to avoid any crash whether it’s your fault or not.
How often do you see someone pull out of a junction and a vehicle on the road they are joining actually accelerates then slams brakes on followed by horn blast to make a point to them that it was a poor planned entrance? Advanced driving would teach you to see the entering vehicle early, anticipate they may pull out into your path, and be ready to act accordingly with a horn to warn of your presence or ready to brake and just let them go, dont get road rage over it and be done with it happy that no incident occurred thanks to you anticipation.
Being assessed by an advanced instructor, preferable police pursuit trained as there’s not much they don’t see, can actually to be an eye opener when they point out to you how much you are missing, or how late you are seeing things. Those little things avoid crashes and that’s the reason they are allowed to roll around safely and legally with blue lights at well above the speed limits and through red lights etc. Or if you hate the police, then same for paramedics.