Fergi:
Thanks for everybody’s replies, so it looks like after driving for 3.30 then break for 30mins I would only have 1hr driving left before I would have to take another 30min break. If this is correct then why when driving the last hour does the tacho not start flashing after 45 min to warn me that I am nearing 4.30 driving time? Also after the 30 min break after driving 3.30 when I start driving again why does the tacho not show 3.30 already driven, it has reset to 0.00?
I can assure you that a break taken before you start driving cannot legally be counted as a driving break because the split break must be distributed over the driving time, clearly a break taken before any driving is done is not distributed over the driving time.
Page 17 - GV262<<<<<<:
Alternatively, a full 45-minute break can be replaced by one break of at least 15 minutes followed by another break of at least 30 minutes. These breaks must be distributed over the 4.5-hour period.
After a driving period of four and a half hours a driver shall
take an uninterrupted break of not less than 45 minutes,
unless he takes a rest period.
This break may be replaced by a break of at least 15 minutes
followed by a break of at least 30 minutes each distributed over the period in such a way as to comply with the provisions of the first paragraph.
I’m reasonably sure that a 15 minute break before doing any driving should not be counted by the tachograph as part of a driving break, I’ve done this myself on several occasions to reset the 6 hours working time and the tachographs have never included the break taken before starting to drive as part of a split break.
In fact I’ve just tried it on the Digital Tachograph Simulator to check and a break I manually entered before starting to drive was not recognised as part of a driving break.
Fergi:
Thanks for everybody’s replies, so it looks like after driving for 3.30 then break for 30mins I would only have 1hr driving left before I would have to take another 30min break. If this is correct then why when driving the last hour does the tacho not start flashing after 45 min to warn me that I am nearing 4.30 driving time? Also after the 30 min break after driving 3.30 when I start driving again why does the tacho not show 3.30 already driven, it has reset to 0.00?
If after recording any driving you have then recorded more than 15 mins POA before taking the 30 mins break, the tacho will reset the driving time. This is due to an error in the programming which counts the first 45 mins of POA as break.This is proof that the driving laws are too complicated, even the brains that design software and hardware can’t understand them.
schrodingers cat:
If after recording any driving you have then recorded more than 15 mins POA before taking the 30 mins break, the tacho will reset the driving time. This is due to an error in the programming which counts the first 45 mins of POA as break.
You may have nailed the problem if the OP has been using POA
Haven’t used POA, Start work - other work 30min, break 16 min, other work 15 min, drive 3hrs 30min, break 30 min (total rest shown on tacho screen is now 46 min). Driving time has reset to 00.00 and no warning (ie: tacho screen flashing after 45 min driving) after a further 3hrs 15min driving to RTB.
schrodingers cat:
If after recording any driving you have then recorded more than 15 mins POA before taking the 30 mins break, the tacho will reset the driving time. This is due to an error in the programming which counts the first 45 mins of POA as break.
You may have nailed the problem if the OP has been using POA
Which the authorities are well aware of hence the reason they allow “the first 45 minutes of POA to be counted as break”, but only when multi manning
This small problem stems from the days when the tachographs had extra symbols.
Driver 1 had Drive. Rest. Work and Crossed Hammers
Driver 2 had Rest. Work and crossed Hammers
Since the 80’s tachographs have not had the drive symbol and when the vehicle moves, the tachograph records Driving, whichever seat you are sat in. So Driver 2 can only select POA or Work but not Bed until both drivers are sleeping.
schrodingers cat:
If after recording any driving you have then recorded more than 15 mins POA before taking the 30 mins break, the tacho will reset the driving time. This is due to an error in the programming which counts the first 45 mins of POA as break.
You may have nailed the problem if the OP has been using POA
Which the authorities are well aware of hence the reason they allow “the first 45 minutes of POA to be counted as break”, but only when multi manning
This small problem stems from the days when the tachographs had extra symbols.
Driver 1 had Drive. Rest. Work and Crossed Hammers
Driver 2 had Rest. Work and crossed Hammers
Since the 80’s tachographs have not had the drive symbol and when the vehicle moves, the tachograph records Driving, whichever seat you are sat in. So Driver 2 can only select POA or Work but not Bed until both drivers are sleeping.
Funnily enough the ones who seem to have the biggest problems are the drivers who have never used the old tachographs or indeed paper charts
I agree that drivers should know and understand the rules but often they do not get trained in a way that they need nor get tested to see if they do know and understand
The initial dcpc is a really missed opportunity where the theory module 2 could have been a test on driver rules
The periodic dcpc does not help either as that does not have a requirement for testing the knowledge of drivers on the rules
As for the digitachos, well, in this day and age I am quite sure that the programming can be done so it reflects the current rules especially now as both EU and AETR are virtually the same
A simple plug in and overriding of the software should also be easy to do in case the rules change at any time
schrodingers cat:
If after recording any driving you have then recorded more than 15 mins POA before taking the 30 mins break, the tacho will reset the driving time. This is due to an error in the programming which counts the first 45 mins of POA as break.
You may have nailed the problem if the OP has been using POA
Which the authorities are well aware of hence the reason they allow “the first 45 minutes of POA to be counted as break”, but only when multi manning
The reason that the first 45 minutes of POA are counted as break when multi-manning is because you can’t set slot 2 to break whilst the vehicle is moving, it has nothing to do with digital tachographs resetting the driving time after 45 minutes of POA or a mixture of 45 minutes break/POA
schrodingers cat:
If after recording any driving you have then recorded more than 15 mins POA before taking the 30 mins break, the tacho will reset the driving time. This is due to an error in the programming which counts the first 45 mins of POA as break.
You may have nailed the problem if the OP has been using POA
Which the authorities are well aware of hence the reason they allow “the first 45 minutes of POA to be counted as break”, but only when multi manning
The reason that the first 45 minutes of POA are counted as break when multi-manning is because you can’t set slot 2 to break whilst the vehicle is moving, it has nothing to do with digital tachographs resetting the driving time after 45 minutes of POA or a mixture of 45 minutes break/POA
I know that, my input was extra to yours and the reasons why so many think you have had a break when sat on POA for 30 minutes, only to find out they are signing infringements in the next couple of weeks or so.
For Single driver use. POA is POA not break, not ever, never or if.
Break is an interruption of a driving period or an interruption of working time, so you cannot clock on and immediately take 15 minutes BREAK before you have done any work either.
Like Lord Holic used to say, if it counts for POA it would also count as BREAK. POA is not BREAK though.
Everyone has got a mobile phone, use the stopwatch to time your breaks if necessary, use the alarm to remind you when to stop work and have your dinner.
schrodingers cat:
If after recording any driving you have then recorded more than 15 mins POA before taking the 30 mins break, the tacho will reset the driving time. This is due to an error in the programming which counts the first 45 mins of POA as break.
You may have nailed the problem if the OP has been using POA
Which the authorities are well aware of hence the reason they allow “the first 45 minutes of POA to be counted as break”, but only when multi manning
This small problem stems from the days when the tachographs had extra symbols.
Driver 1 had Drive. Rest. Work and Crossed Hammers
Driver 2 had Rest. Work and crossed Hammers
Since the 80’s tachographs have not had the drive symbol and when the vehicle moves, the tachograph records Driving, whichever seat you are sat in. So Driver 2 can only select POA or Work but not Bed until both drivers are sleeping.
Yes and since he hadn’t mentioned multi manning then the only answer I could see to the problem was the crap programming of the Digi tacho that counts the first 45 mins of POA as rest.
It’s not a small problem as you say, its a huge problem that will confuse those drivers who have little understanding of the very complicated regs that we have to follow. The piece of equipment that we should be able to rely on to tell us what we can or can’t do in a day (and by law we must have) is a piece of crap that can’t even keep count of our breaks. What a bloody ill thought out crappy bit of law brought in by a ■■■■ in a suit.
Fergi:
Haven’t used POA, Start work - other work 30min, break 16 min, other work 15 min, drive 3hrs 30min, break 30 min (total rest shown on tacho screen is now 46 min). Driving time has reset to 00.00 and no warning (ie: tacho screen flashing after 45 min driving) after a further 3hrs 15min driving to RTB.
That’s still not right mate, as you have only had a 30 min break since you started actuall driving.
The fact that the tacho is resetting the driving time is what is wrong here.
For an example, I used to drive a truck that would reset its driving time after I had 3 blocks of 15 mins break… Completely illegal.
At the end of the day it’s just a computer and computers have software problems.
If I start work at 1800 but don’t actually start driving till 1900, am I wrong in putting my card in and doing a manual entry consisting of the following; 1800-1830 other work, 1830-1846 break, 1846-1900 other work, then drive for 3.30hrs, break 30mins. Tacho shows total break of 46mins. Is this legal?
It now turns out that I’ve got loads of infringements for doing this, and I could be in some serious sh*t!
If I start work at 1800 but don’t actually start driving till 1900, am I wrong in putting my card in and doing a manual entry consisting of the following; 1800-1830 other work, 1830-1846 break, 1846-1900 other work, then drive for 3.30hrs, break 30mins. Tacho shows total break of 46mins. Is this legal?
It now turns out that I’ve got loads of infringements for doing this, and I could be in some serious sh*t!
From what you’ve posted I suspect that the tachograph could be faulty so ask for it to be checked.
A faulty tachograph won’t get you out of trouble with VOSA but it may go some way to pacifying your employer if that’s who you’re in trouble with
