Hi Steve she be going soon this I took Thursday,hi robdog hopefully this is it mate won’t be moving anymore having some bad luck these couple of months dislocated my shoulder in august,then started back to work 2 weeks in torn my calf muscle back in now but struggling a bit
Another KM Bedford of Stringfellow Bros of Wigan, in later days
when the company had become part of Pickfords Removals. NMP.
Heres an old letter head i found in my grandads stuff dated 1911.
C.R.Miles who were a removal company in Andover. I do like “Distance no object” and the company motto " Keep moving".
That is cool Dean .
JAKEY:
That is cool Dean .
Yeah its a cracker. I wonder how many miles that engine would cover a day pulling a trailer. 
Early container trailer from 1969.
DEANB:
JAKEY:
That is cool Dean .Yeah its a cracker. I wonder how many miles that engine would cover a day pulling a trailer.
Early container trailer from 1969.
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That would have had the purists at Pickfords up in arms. Knowing them it probably never turned a wheel in service.
Dennis Javelin:
“DEANB”Early container trailer from 1969.
That would have had the purists at Pickfords up in arms. Knowing them it probably never turned a wheel in service.
I have an article about that trailer Dennis which i will pop on soon.
Heres a 1976 Vanplan Bedford with side door’s. No loading a container through the back with this one !
DEANB:
Dennis Javelin:
“DEANB”Early container trailer from 1969.
That would have had the purists at Pickfords up in arms. Knowing them it probably never turned a wheel in service.
I have an article about that trailer Dennis which i will pop on soon.
Heres a 1976 Vanplan Bedford with side door’s. No loading a container through the back with this one !
0
Thanks, that should make interesting reading. When I was with the Glasgow branch in the early 80’s a proposal was put to head office about getting some 40’ step frame trailers that could carry 5 containers and/or 2500 cu ft. Glasgow at this time was losing a serious amount of money every year and I was looking at every way these losses could be stemmed. Unless the customer specifically demanded it all containers were kept at the collecting branch, which meant of course that they got the storage revenue which was often the only thing keeping a branch open.
However this presented a problem if the re-delivery was down south or it was a delivery coming from south up to Scotland as it meant using more than one wagon. I thought that having a max size trailer would be the most cost effective way of doing this. There was certainly enough traffic to justify at least one of these but the reaction from the bosses at Enfield was one of sheer horror. Pickfords was built on 4 wheelers and that’s the way it would stay seemed to be the order of the day. The only exception was the European side which was allowed to operate wagon & drags. I thought I’d be smart and get the containers shipped down using the back load system and I negotiated a pretty good deal with a large haulier which was a lot cheaper than sending our vehicles and drivers away. In addition by using 40’ flats we could get 6 containers on the one load albeit with a slight overhang at the back. Again this was seen as heresy and banned. Fortunately I transferred out of this part of the group soon after as it was clear that no matter what they wouldn’t come into the 20th century.
Dennis Javelin:
“DEANB”Early container trailer from 1969.
That would have had the purists at Pickfords up in arms. Knowing them it probably never turned a wheel in service.
I have an article about that trailer Dennis which i will pop on soon.
Heres a 1976 Vanplan Bedford with side door’s. No loading a container through the back with this one !
Thanks, that should make interesting reading. When I was with the Glasgow branch in the early 80’s a proposal was put to head office about getting some 40’ step frame trailers that could carry 5 containers and/or 2500 cu ft. Glasgow at this time was losing a serious amount of money every year and I was looking at every way these losses could be stemmed. Unless the customer specifically demanded it all containers were kept at the collecting branch, which meant of course that they got the storage revenue which was often the only thing keeping a branch open.
However this presented a problem if the re-delivery was down south or it was a delivery coming from south up to Scotland as it meant using more than one wagon. I thought that having a max size trailer would be the most cost effective way of doing this. There was certainly enough traffic to justify at least one of these but the reaction from the bosses at Enfield was one of sheer horror. Pickfords was built on 4 wheelers and that’s the way it would stay seemed to be the order of the day. The only exception was the European side which was allowed to operate wagon & drags. I thought I’d be smart and get the containers shipped down using the back load system and I negotiated a pretty good deal with a large haulier which was a lot cheaper than sending our vehicles and drivers away. In addition by using 40’ flats we could get 6 containers on the one load albeit with a slight overhang at the back. Again this was seen as heresy and banned. Fortunately I transferred out of this part of the group soon after as it was clear that no matter what they wouldn’t come into the 20th century.
Pickfords did have some strange ideas like you say. Some of the removal trucks they have been using over the last 20 odd years have been crap really,lots
of tail lift box vans. They may be ok on office moves although i still preferred a ramp but rubbish for domestic removals. I remember talking to the manager
of the Manchester branch who was in charge of buying there trucks. Cant remember his name but he said that they could buy 3 Cargo chassis for the same
price as 2 Volvo F6 chassis so they decided to buy the Cargo’s. He said it was a huge mistake as they cost twice as much to keep on the road and were not
as reliable. They soon went back to buying FL6’s then. 
I dont remember ever seeing one of these ,before my time.
Click on pages twice to read. To read column 3 & 4 you need to drop down to page 2 as from Motor Transport which were a huge paper and not
easy to scan.
Pickfords did have some strange ideas like you say. Some of the removal trucks they have been using over the last 20 odd years have been crap really,lots
of tail lift box vans. They may be ok on office moves although i still preferred a ramp but rubbish for domestic removals. I remember talking to the manager
of the Manchester branch who was in charge of buying there trucks. Cant remember his name but he said that they could buy 3 Cargo chassis for the same
price as 2 Volvo F6 chassis so they decided to buy the Cargo’s. He said it was a huge mistake as they cost twice as much to keep on the road and were not
as reliable. They soon went back to buying FL6’s then.
I dont remember ever seeing one of these ,before my time.
Click on pages twice to read. To read column 3 & 4 you need to drop down to page 2 as from Motor Transport which were a huge paper and not
easy to scan.
1
0
[/quote]
A lot of the “Pickfords” trucks nowadays are operated under franchise so they have no control (or interest) in the age of the fleet that is masquerading as the Pickfords of old. When I was there it was a strict policy that the vehicles were replaced every 8 years no matter what condition they were in. One of my trucks had the engine replaced when it was seven and a half years old. The costs for this would be picked up by the branch but any profits from the vehicle sale would go to head office. And they wondered why branches failed to make an operating profit!!
Dennis Javelin:
A lot of the “Pickfords” trucks nowadays are operated under franchise so they have no control (or interest) in the age of the fleet that is masquerading as the Pickfords of old. When I was there it was a strict policy that the vehicles were replaced every 8 years no matter what condition they were in. One of my trucks had the engine replaced when it was seven and a half years old. The costs for this would be picked up by the branch but any profits from the vehicle sale would go to head office. And they wondered why branches failed to make an operating profit!!
Yes i knew they were franchising alot of work to other removal companies.
When i was a nipper there was a Pickfords branch in every large town just about. Bit like this heavy haulage advert which
sums up Pickfords, you would have thought there would have been a central phone number listed ! 
DEANB:
Dennis Javelin:
A lot of the “Pickfords” trucks nowadays are operated under franchise so they have no control (or interest) in the age of the fleet that is masquerading as the Pickfords of old. When I was there it was a strict policy that the vehicles were replaced every 8 years no matter what condition they were in. One of my trucks had the engine replaced when it was seven and a half years old. The costs for this would be picked up by the branch but any profits from the vehicle sale would go to head office. And they wondered why branches failed to make an operating profit!!Yes i knew they were franchising alot of work to other removal companies.
When i was a nipper there was a Pickfords branch in every large town just about. Bit like this heavy haulage advert which
sums up Pickfords, you would have thought there would have been a central phone number listed !0
The big branches used to have a variety of phone numbers from the surrounding area. At Glasgow we had a Helensburgh and Dumbarton tel no which routed through to us via every exchange on the way (cost a fortune in those days as you had to pay for a separate line in each exchange). This gave the public the impression that they were dealing with a local operator. Used to work well and even when the prospective customer found out that the branch was actually 50 miles away by that time hopefully you would have converted the enquiry into a sale.
Dennis Javelin:
“DEANB” "Yes i knew they were franchising alot of work to other removal companies.
When i was a nipper there was a Pickfords branch in every large town just about. Bit like this heavy haulage advert which
sums up Pickfords, you would have thought there would have been a central phone number listed !The big branches used to have a variety of phone numbers from the surrounding area. At Glasgow we had a Helensburgh and Dumbarton tel no which routed through to us via every exchange on the way (cost a fortune in those days as you had to pay for a separate line in each exchange). This gave the public the impression that they were dealing with a local operator. Used to work well and even when the prospective customer found out that the branch was actually 50 miles away by that time hopefully you would have converted the enquiry into a sale.
Classic.
DEANB:
Dennis Javelin:
“DEANB” "Yes i knew they were franchising alot of work to other removal companies.
When i was a nipper there was a Pickfords branch in every large town just about. Bit like this heavy haulage advert which
sums up Pickfords, you would have thought there would have been a central phone number listed !The big branches used to have a variety of phone numbers from the surrounding area. At Glasgow we had a Helensburgh and Dumbarton tel no which routed through to us via every exchange on the way (cost a fortune in those days as you had to pay for a separate line in each exchange). This gave the public the impression that they were dealing with a local operator. Used to work well and even when the prospective customer found out that the branch was actually 50 miles away by that time hopefully you would have converted the enquiry into a sale.
We also had a few other removal companies letter headed paper so that we could provide all 3 quotes for people who needed them. I’m quite sure that was illegal but it was a widespread practice back then. To be fair they also had ours so it was swings and roundabouts. Problem was that some branches would get greedy and totally rip off the customer but it was condoned by head office. In fact they probably initiated it. One branch down south did get caught however and it caused no end of problems as the company paying the bill was British Rail.
Dennis Javelin:
DEANB:
Dennis Javelin:
“DEANB” "Yes i knew they were franchising alot of work to other removal companies.
When i was a nipper there was a Pickfords branch in every large town just about. Bit like this heavy haulage advert which
sums up Pickfords, you would have thought there would have been a central phone number listed !The big branches used to have a variety of phone numbers from the surrounding area. At Glasgow we had a Helensburgh and Dumbarton tel no which routed through to us via every exchange on the way (cost a fortune in those days as you had to pay for a separate line in each exchange). This gave the public the impression that they were dealing with a local operator. Used to work well and even when the prospective customer found out that the branch was actually 50 miles away by that time hopefully you would have converted the enquiry into a sale.
We also had a few other removal companies letter headed paper so that we could provide all 3 quotes for people who needed them. I’m quite sure that was illegal but it was a widespread practice back then. To be fair they also had ours so it was swings and roundabouts. Problem was that some branches would get greedy and totally rip off the customer but it was condoned by head office. In fact they probably initiated it. One branch down south did get caught however and it caused no end of problems as the company paying the bill was British Rail.
It must hve been about 1985-86 I was involved with a BBC TV program Watchdog
In Newcastle area most three estimates we given by Pickfords, Hoults (Just before Fred Hoult sold out to Pickfords) and ourselves.
Our manager at our Newcastle Branch was a chap called Pat Cavaghner and each Friday afternoon he used to come down to my office in Spennymoor to meet me and we’d go through his estimates and I’d adjust his prices according to whether we could load back etc and the mistake I was making was the actual estimates were sent out directly from the Newcastle office. I should have just taken the details and posted the from Spennymoor. I had no indication this was happening as Pat Cavaghner was achieving his target and we were never overpricing,
Apparently he had made an informal deal,encouraged by Pickfords that prices were adjusted so that we got about a third acceptances each. However this got out of hand as Pickfords were charging about double on the ones they got and it all came out at a BAR meeting when Pat had got worried that he might be incrimidating himself. Mike Devereux was chairman at the time and he reported what was happening to BBC.
BBC had the Watchdog team investigate and they came and filmed me in my office at our Spennymoor premises. Full team inc make up artists etc. As it happened the producer was daughter of a former Editor of the Times Newspaper who was born in Spennymoor and knew my father and Grandfather and she spent about an hour talking to me saying how she was so pleased as her father had told her so much about Spennymoor and us.
I was able to show her my notes of how much we had intended to quote from my notes; She interviewed me with her off camera so we only heard her voice and as the program was about to go on air I was contacted by Pickfords saying they would sue me if I didn’t withdraw. I contacted BBC and they gave my solicitors assurance they would indemnify me should that happen.
When it went on air I was down at Worcester meeting Kay’s the mail order Company and unable to watch on TV as I was travelling to my hotel when it was shown about 6-30 at night but my wife recorded it and told me it had gone OK,when we spoke on the phone.I knew I had done OK because next morning when I walked int Kays about 10 people stood up from their ossitions where they were dealing with telephone enquiries and gave me a standing ovation. Making things worse for Pickfords by that time they had just bought out Hoults . There were about three more areas of the country where the same thing was happening and Pickfords management took no blame saying they had sacked the branch managers involved,
Our Spennymoor Estimator covered South of Chester le Street down to about the Yorkshire Border which took in Darlington where Pickfords had a Branch but our competitors were usually Haward & Robinson and Cracknells and although Mark Robinson had bought out Cracknells he was as straight as can be and never tried to fiddle the system. Pickfords were not popular and always overpriced.
Sadly I lost the VHS tape of the program and I always have lived in the hope it would turn uo some day by someone who had also recorded it but it never did.
“There were about three more areas of the country where the same thing was happening and Pickfords management took no blame saying they had sacked the branch managers involved,”
I can assure you that the practice was widespread at Pickfords. Having moved to Pickfords from one of the BRS companies I was unaware about it until I joined them but during a meeting with one (very) senior director the topic was discussed between us and he referred to it as the “3 card trick”. I moved on from Pickfords in 1983 and the incident I was referring to was during my time with them.
You mention Hoults so let me digress slightly. You might remember a cartoon strip in the Daily Express called “tramps” which was about two old down and outs who carried all their worldly possessions around in a pram. Pickfords sponsored this and had their name emblazoned on the pram. A few years later and they had a dispute about the money so Hoults were contacted and gladly took on the role. I can’t remember dates but it was certainly about the time that they bought them out. Not suggesting that this was the reason but the senior management at that time (when I say management it was effectively a personal fiefdom but there was ostensibly a board of directors) didn’t take kindly to not getting their (his) own way.
Dennis Javelin:
“There were about three more areas of the country where the same thing was happening and Pickfords management took no blame saying they had sacked the branch managers involved,”I can assure you that the practice was widespread at Pickfords. Having moved to Pickfords from one of the BRS companies I was unaware about it until I joined them but during a meeting with one (very) senior director the topic was discussed between us and he referred to it as the “3 card trick”. I moved on from Pickfords in 1983 and the incident I was referring to was during my time with them.
You mention Hoults so let me digress slightly. You might remember a cartoon strip in the Daily Express called “tramps” which was about two old down and outs who carried all their worldly possessions around in a pram. Pickfords sponsored this and had their name emblazoned on the pram. A few years later and they had a dispute about the money so Hoults were contacted and gladly took on the role. I can’t remember dates but it was certainly about the time that they bought them out. Not suggesting that this was the reason but the senior management at that time (when I say management it was effectively a personal fiefdom but there was ostensibly a board of directors) didn’t take kindly to not getting their (his) own way.
About the same time, British Gas had their UK Accounts department at Cramlington Northumberland and if my memory serves me right they had found Asbestos in the premises and needed moving out into temp accomodation a few miles away and back in about 3 months after building work was completed. It was a massive job as they employed over 1,000 office staff and needed removal carried out over 1 weekend so no loss of working hours.
They had invited Pickfotds, Hoults and ourselves to meet one evening after 5PM to be jointly shown round so we could quote by sealed tender. Our Newcastle manager asked could I join him as a second opinion and to be fair each company had 2 or 3 reps as there was a lot to take in. We went round more or less in silence.
I calculated our price taking into account that we would be using all our own staff at time and half rate and Pickfords worked out cheapest with us being most expensive. Pickfords however had been using casual labour many off duty firemen so I subsequently found out.
They carried out the first removal and made a total mess. In consequence we were notified that Hoults who were cheaper than us would be given the return removal. However it was just as Pickfords bought Hoults and when British Gas read in the Newcastle Journal newspaper they immediately cancelled Hoults saying they would not use any company connected to Pickfords and we did the removal back and I got a personal telephone call thanking me of an excellent job They managed to get themselves a very bad name.
Carl Williams:
Dennis Javelin:
“There were about three more areas of the country where the same thing was happening and Pickfords management took no blame saying they had sacked the branch managers involved,”I can assure you that the practice was widespread at Pickfords. Having moved to Pickfords from one of the BRS companies I was unaware about it until I joined them but during a meeting with one (very) senior director the topic was discussed between us and he referred to it as the “3 card trick”. I moved on from Pickfords in 1983 and the incident I was referring to was during my time with them.
You mention Hoults so let me digress slightly. You might remember a cartoon strip in the Daily Express called “tramps” which was about two old down and outs who carried all their worldly possessions around in a pram. Pickfords sponsored this and had their name emblazoned on the pram. A few years later and they had a dispute about the money so Hoults were contacted and gladly took on the role. I can’t remember dates but it was certainly about the time that they bought them out. Not suggesting that this was the reason but the senior management at that time (when I say management it was effectively a personal fiefdom but there was ostensibly a board of directors) didn’t take kindly to not getting their (his) own way.
About the same time, British Gas had their UK Accounts department at Cramlington Northumberland and if my memory serves me right they had found Asbestos in the premises and needed moving out into temp accomodation a few miles away and back in about 3 months after building work was completed. It was a massive job as they employed over 1,000 office staff and needed removal carried out over 1 weekend so no loss of working hours.
They had invited Pickfotds, Hoults and ourselves to meet one evening after 5PM to be jointly shown round so we could quote by sealed tender. Our Newcastle manager asked could I join him as a second opinion and to be fair each company had 2 or 3 reps as there was a lot to take in. We went round more or less in silence.
I calculated our price taking into account that we would be using all our own staff at time and half rate and Pickfords worked out cheapest with us being most expensive. Pickfords however had been using casual labour many off duty firemen so I subsequently found out.
They carried out the first removal and made a total mess. In consequence we were notified that Hoults who were cheaper than us would be given the return removal. However it was just as Pickfords bought Hoults and when British Gas read in the Newcastle Journal newspaper they immediately cancelled Hoults saying they would not use any company connected to Pickfords and we did the removal back and I got a personal telephone call thanking me of an excellent job They managed to get themselves a very bad name.
Obviously, prior to privatisation, the concept of Pickfords using casual labour would have been a no-no. We sometimes hired in staff from other local companies who may or not have been casual but they would never have been directly employed. After privatisation there was a swap of MD’s between BRS and Pickfords. Geoff Pygall went to BRS with someone who I can’t remember coming in to Enfield. However this was just a paper exercise as the real power lay with the deputy MD, Dennis Oliver. So not only did nothing change, if anything it emboldened Oliver to pursue policies that he was being held back from implementing previously as the new MD was in effect just seeing out time until he could retire. When he did and Oliver got his prized job the company seemed to go into freefall. Not that anyone could have foreseen that
In defence of the “casual labourers” brought in I’ve always been a proponent of the maxim that “there’s no such thing as a bad worker, there’s only bad managers. Good managers don’t employ bad workers” From my experience of poor/weak management within the NFC I’d have to say that Pickfords won first prize on that count every time.