Berliet

What a very nostalgic thread. I ran a TR305 in the late '80s early '90s. Brilliant truck and was very comfortable. They were very underated. It wasn’t a racehorse by any means but it luggged pretty well and always gave a very relaxed journey,as the engine gave the impression it wasn’t working as hard as it was. It gave decent fuel returns as well when you left it pull at the lower end of the rev range. I had a DAF 2800 DKSE at the same time and the Berliet was a nicer truck to drive.

There was an importer in Co.Wexford at the time,and I’m not sure whether thay assembled them from ckd kits or just imported them directly.

Like you said Saviem,the V8 engine had a reputation for poor reliability,but the 6 cylinder was a great workhorse.

I realise the motor hasn’t a Berliet badge on the fron’t !!! A summer evening Milnthorpe depot,late 70’s and one the night men is sat filling in his tacho prior to his trunk to Daventry and back.IIRC we ran this demo for a few weeks and were not impressed.But it was a bit of “free gratis” running apart from DERV,it did the job on double shift but at the time we were going heavily into Scanias and the Renault/Berliet was not in the same class,as far as we were concerned.Sorry Saviem but that was the proof of the pudding as far as we were concerned. Cheers Dennis.

Hello Mr. Bewick. What was inferior about the French product, compared to the others, in your experience?

[zb]
anorak:
Hello Mr. Bewick. What was inferior about the French product, compared to the others, in your experience?

In comparison to the Scania,they were heavier,thirstier,the drivers didn’t like them and they wern’t worth much secondhand oh! and they were French ! However,eventually when we got the Magnums for the European operation they were ,on the whole,well received and gave us good service.And I got on very well with Bernard Momin the Renault UK M.D.,he was a great chap,loved everything British/English !! Cheers Bewick.

Well put Bewick spoken like a true gent, what suits one dont allways suit others, as we all know, Regards Larry.

Lawrence Dunbar:
Well put Bewick spoken like a true gent, what suits one dont allways suit others, as we all know, Regards Larry.

Did you ever have any dealings with French motors Mr.D. ■■ Dennis.

No Dennis, I did not, but I did mistakenly buy some French wine. Regards Larry.

Lawrence Dunbar:
No Dennis, I did not, but I did mistakenly buy some French wine. Regards Larry.

New Zealand and Chilean and a drop of Scicilean now and again Larry is all we buy,can’t beat Southern hemisphere wine !! Anyway here’s a shot of another bag of French ■■■■ we ran on demo for a while,ready to leave the depot one Sunday morning.Cheers Dennis.

Bewick:

Lawrence Dunbar:
No Dennis, I did not, but I did mistakenly buy some French wine. Regards Larry.

New Zealand and Chilean and a drop of Scicilean now and again Larry is all we buy,can’t beat Southern hemisphere wine !! Anyway here’s a shot of another bag of French [zb] we ran on demo for a while,ready to leave the depot one Sunday morning.Cheers Dennis.

You describe it as “another bag of French ■■■■”, what causes you to describe it that way, was it unreliable, bad starter or just much heavier on fuel than a Scania? (which I have to admit I think of as ‘Swedish ■■■■■■ for many reasons, mostly ride quality)

Ross.

Thanks for information Mr. B. I’m surprised they didn’t go down well with the drivers, given that the cab was generally acknowledged to have been very good. Was the performance poor, or was there just a general prejudice against things airy-fairy and French?

Could have been a, very common, prejudice against all things French, Anorak, but the later acceptance of the Magnums that Bewick relates sort of gives the lie to that. Maybe the Magnum was so good that they were prepared to forget its origins. :wink:

For myself, as you would expect, I love all things French (even their chauvenistic attitude, in spite of or perhaps because of, the fact that the nation more than any other in the world which is similar in that respect is the British :laughing: ). The wine (not only will I drink nothing but French but never choose anything but Bordeaux or Bergerac, how chauvenistic is that :open_mouth: ), the food and the wagons.

I never got to drive a Berliet but I did appreciate, as I said earlier, its descendant the Turboliner, and I just lurrrved my Magnum. :laughing:

Afternoon Gentlemen,Demonstrators, ah, a very vexing subject, quite often a big capital outlay for either the Dealer, or Manufacturer, and if not managed correctly could well turn out to be a veritable disaster. First, know something about your potential customer, is he happy with what he is running? or does he have problems with the product, or its backup. Is the product that you are offering suitable for his operation? What are his priorities, payload, economy, ease of acquisition, residual value, length of ownership, multi driver suitability, or one man one vehicle, and a miriad of other more individual factors. A complex equation, and one so often ignored by sales staff in the field, anxious to place product with a “flagship” operator within their patch. Oh, the most important point, know your product, and most importantly its strengths, and its weakness. If it aint going to do the job, then do not put it in! Then, if you do put a demonstrator in, manage it, make certain that the driver, (and all the men who will drive it), can drive it to its best advantage. If the man working with it hates it, then you have wasted time and money to no avail. Manage the demo, monitor vital points, fuel consumption, is it performing as it should? if not, why not, find out, it wont get better by itself. Do the drivers deslike it? why, can something be done. It is amazing what you can learn with a bit of “out of hours” hospitality! And lastly, are you just being taken for a ride! It entails a lot more work than many were prepared to put in, and the negative results of many manufacturers demo budgets bears testiment to the lack of business expertise within the Commercial Vehicle industry. I remember in the 80s having operated a good number of 1628s, having a powerliner demo delivered one night, with no handover or EPS instruction, to go out the following day with one of our clients, what a lash up by Mercedes! Dennis, your picture of the TR305, first impression, poor presentation, factory yellow, primer chassis, who on earth put those rear wings on? If the Maxi Couple design had one real fault, (that it shared with the Big Cam ■■■■■■■■■ was that if you got to the top of the rev range, then she would ■■■■ fuel. I understand that the UK TRs had the standard axle ratio, and box. Now max economy would equate to circ 80/90kph, but UK motorway would be min100kph! End of economy! Bet you were getting circ 5mpg Dennis, when if the importer RT&B, had fitted the next option ratio you would have seen a min 8/9mpg. I remember having a conversation about this very fact, at a dinner in Lyon one night, with a senior marketing man from RT&B, but he did not agree with me, and was a little dismissive. Still, he was ex Leyland , so I expect really understood what was needed in the market place!! Yes the TR was a fat old girl, around 7tonnes ready to go. But not that heavy in relation to her competitors. Residual value, urghhh, the real problem for all new entrant, or small volume importers. All you can do is support the back end, (if you can afford so to do, and RVI, through its subsidiary RT&B, simply did not have loose resource so to do. And if you do, its a delicate balancing act, otherwise you end up with fields of rough unsaleable stock, and facing a massive capital right down.(now who immediately springs to mind)! Really all you can do is recognise that there is a low residual, so drop the front end price, so the actual cost of financial ownership is very competitive. But that takes us into another area, business management, that really is away from this core thread. In France, all my Dealer demos were fitted with fuel meters that would record actual, and culumative consumption, they were presented well so to drive one was a good experience, and the dealer salesman had plenty of “giveaways” for the company staff. We always involved after sales staff in the dealerships, so everyone tried to make a demonstration a success, and it often was. Ive gone on far too long, apologies, hey, some demos must have worked for RT&B, Ian Pollock ran some, Duncan Barbour, Harold Montgomery, Brains, Atkins, Browns of Ash, Aberlour Glenlivet, Baileys, John Yendle, for Johnson and Johnson, Not bad old lorries, Cheerio for now.

hi berlieti was wondering with all your french experiance would you know for a f89 bubbletank type i would of pm you but not take pm thanks rowland

hi berlieti was wondering with all your french experiance would you know for a f89 bubbletank type i would of pm you but not take pm thanks rowland

Here is my bit of French nostalga. Lovely truck to drive very plush inside, although I seem to remember it was quite heavy for a 4x2.
The 12 litre engine pulled well this one was the 340 variant. The only problem I had with it was the gearbox when the delta 2 shaft failed, it was replaced under warrantry, after that it was faultless in the service it gave me and I was sad to see it go when I traded it in.

Hello reward, have sent you a pm with some phone numbers, good luck, Cheerio for now.

hi saviem got it thank you very much regards rowland

Evening all, hope Im not being boring but as I was pouring copious quantities of the old (expensive red liquid) into the John Deere tonight, I was wondering about economy, (cannot do much to improve it with a computer controlled tractor)! Back, I think 1979ish, because the powers that be wished to do something to promote the virtues of the 12litre Maxi Couple engine, the marketing whizz kids decided to organise an “economy rally”, translated as the “Raid Economie en Europe” TR305s standard tractors, coupled to Trailor Savoyard tilts, running at 38tonnes would be dispatched from Lyon, each vehicle waved away by the Mayor, and its occupants, (two), carrying a message of goodwill from said personage to the mayor , (or equivalent), to Budapest, Prague, Milan, Athens, Birmingham, Paris, (of course),Madrid, and Warsaw. The vehicles were to be driven in accordance with all speed limits, and carried fuel use recording meters. They were genuine ex production vehicles with around 20000kms use. Trailers were 4metre high, and carried liquid test weight to give a genuine38tonne gtw. The overall average consumption across the board translated in UK terms to 7.5mpg! Not bad, and in the UK we did not get “fingered” for running at 38tonnes. The actual Uk bound TR averaged a whisker under 8mpg, and they looked good in an all black livery, with the national symbols for each participating country on the side. Oh well, Id better start doing the accounts, and wonder where the "red"is going! Cheerio for now.

Hiya “Saviem” I hope you don’t think I was been negative about the earlier Renaults/Berliet demos but we always gave any “demo” motor a fair shake of the dice as I did respect the manufacturer for trying so the least we could do was record the fuel consumption,which we did,and place it in the hands of our better drivers or,preferrably on double shift so it was running through the depot all the time and I could personally keep an eye on it !! and drive it as well !!,but of course !!! However,I can honestly say that the Scania came to dominate in the Bewick fleet and when I would ask the drivers of the various demos we had through our hands they invariably said,"sorry boss but we’ll keep our Scania,and sometimes the “Scania” was 10 years old and had done many '000 of miles !! At our height we were running about 80 Scanias out of a100 strong fleet and during those years you couldn’t fault the Scania,although I wouldn’t have a clue what the situation is to-day !! Cheers Dennis.