Basically the BBC hasn’t done their research again and truck sat navs still try to take you down impassable routes, low bridges and weight restrictions, they are just a guide. How come nothing is said about bridge heights that are incorrectly labelled too.
It’s all a load of cobblers.
Won’t happen
kelly1:
if your using a car sat nav and driving a 44t artic you might as well drive with blinkers on…simples
what a load of ■■■■■■■ bull ■■■■
A few points, some of which may have been raised before but I came to this topic three pages in and am at the Golf course soon so cant read it all!
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If you are a professional driver and using a sat-nav then yes, your sat-nav should be one designed for the vehicle you are using. Its a no brainer. After all, everyone will make a mistake eventually and its one more helping hand on the way to avoiding a biggy.
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Its great that they are thinking about making truck-navs mandatory. Even a good truck-nav will cost less than a weeks wages and be good for several years, with mapping updates.
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How will they enforce it? Most trucknavs these days are built into the same cases as the firm’s car-nav equivalent so there will be no visual clue as to if a driver is being non-compliant.
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I think a large number of bridge strikes (but by no means all) are down to the driver being given bad information. For examples I offer:
a) The number of trailers that are marked up in metric only, requiring the driver to either check a chart or do the maths. I know its not hard but if you pick up a trailer late in the day, are tired and make a small mistake, it can have some pretty major consequences. Bridges over here are marked in Imperial. UK registered trailers should be made to be marked in imperial too.
b) The number of trailers that are marked up incorrectly. I pulled for a Norfolk based haulier a while back that has a large number of Montracon trailers on their fleet, all of which are marked up in metric. I knew the height of my fifth wheel to be 1240, a centimeter below the standard but wasn’t happy when I coupled up. It looked taller than it said it was. So out came my height stick and I checked it. It was marked up as 14’3" but was actually 14’7". I then checked every other Montracon I coupled up to that week and found them all to be marked lower than they actually were by between 4 and 7 inches. (The variable difference between marked height and actual height was how I knew I wasn’t reading the height stick wrong BTW!)
c) These modern fridge trailers which are not marked with an overall running height but a height from the pin to the top, requiring the driver to again, do a bit of maths, sometimes even converting the height of the box into imperial, then doing the maths.
The one and only thing I will ever accuse Gist of getting right is the fact that when they get a new vehicle in, they measure the unit and the fifth wheel themselves, then produce a laminated sheet showing the Overall height of the unit running solo and a table showing the overall height of the combination with all the different trailer heights the run. Its a fairly easy thing for major operators to do though even Gist dont account for the rise and fall of a unit when running with the mid-lift up or down.
I think too many take the voice of a SatNav as gospel, it’s an aid, that’s its whole purpose. Why do you think they put disclaimers on them when you switch them on? You still need to know your vehicle and read the signs, just as we did before SatNav.
Also wouldn’t surprise me if people didn’t know how to work theirs. Only the other day I had to show one of the full timers how to work his and put the correct settings in for his route.
Someone said earlier getting rid of agency drivers would stop bridge strikes, and here’s me keeping a full time employee right and helping out…the shame of it… [emoji15]
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nsmith1180:
A few points, some of which may have been raised before but I came to this topic three pages in and am at the Golf course soon so cant read it all!
- If you are a professional driver and using a sat-nav then yes, your sat-nav should be one designed for the vehicle you are using. Its a no brainer. After all, everyone will make a mistake eventually and its one more helping hand on the way to avoiding a biggy.
If you’re a professional driver, you shouldn’t drive under a low bridge regardless of what you’re sat nav says. Maybe a few drivers need to look out of their vehicles and read the road ahead, I’ve seen sat-nav right in front of the drivers eye line, make you wonder how they manage to see the road.
It would be interesting to see how many of these bridge strikes and using routes with weight limits are due to following car sat navs.
nsmith1180:
2) Its great that they are thinking about making truck-navs mandatory. Even a good truck-nav will cost less than a weeks wages and be good for several years, with mapping updates.
It’s unlikely to happen, but its LGA’s trying to get power to fine and keep the money. They probably aren’t really bothered about sat navs but it’s a way of hiding their real message from drivers of other vehicles who’d also be targeted by them if they could raise money from fining drivers for any minor offence, (and the holier than thou brigade, we all make mistakes at times, should we be immediately slapped with a fine so local government can make up the short fall in their coffers)
nsmith1180:
3) How will they enforce it? Most trucknavs these days are built into the same cases as the firm’s car-nav equivalent so there will be no visual clue as to if a driver is being non-compliant.
Probably when the vehicle actually hits the bridge or goes down the road with a weight limit on, but there are already charges and fines for these things, but local government don’t get the money.
nsmith1180:
4) I think a large number of bridge strikes (but by no means all) are down to the driver being given bad information. For examples I offer:
Yes but not only on trailers,
Lack of decent road signs to get to various industrial area avoiding a weight limit or bridge.
You’ll see a sign saying no 7.5t, but not always a sign showing the official route to the factory or industrial estate.
And in the case of the town I used to work out of which had 3 low bridges, I helped many a truck driver turn round after they missed the sign because it was covered by a hedge.
A truck nav is just not needed an ordinary cheap car one will do the job along with just a little bit of common sense thrown in. As for bridge/trailer height markings its a metric world we live in now and imo should all be marked in metric. Yes, its a drivers responsibility to read bridge heights but if the UK followed the rest of Europe with 4m max trailers half these strikes wouldnt even happen, no one ‘needs’ to run with ridiculously tall 4.6/ 4.9m trailers. If you want to double stack a lighter gvw low ride drawbar outfit does the job just fine without going over the 4m limit…
happysack:
kelly1:
if your using a car sat nav and driving a 44t artic you might as well drive with blinkers on…simpleswhat a load of [zb] bull [zb]
Agreed, it’s a matter of individual choice, 
If you HAVE A BRAIN and can use a standard sat nav with no drama or problem, crack on.
Or even if you are anything ranging from a fully competent good driver, to a pig ■■■■ thick in bred type ‘‘driver’’ who will be forever useless as long as he posesses an arse hole.
In either category.
If you feel you can not do the job without being told absolutely everything without having to think, get a one and crack on.
or
If you are more comfortable as using as a guide, and you prefer one, then again…crack on.
What should not be done is generalise every driver with a one size fits all legislation, and force one of those ■■■■ overpriced truck designated things on every category mentioned, …including those like me who neither want nor need one.
As I said…Matter of individual choice
…
happysack:
kelly1:
if your using a car sat nav and driving a 44t artic you might as well drive with blinkers on…simpleswhat a load of [zb] bull [zb]
Definitely, I managed 8yrs with a car sat nav that wasn’t even updated, so a couple of times it got confused if I was driving down a new bypass but I only came a cropper in the centre of London a couple of times when the sat nav wanted me to e.g Turn right at a junction when only bus’s can or send me down a road which has now been blocked/pedestrianised.
Only recently got one of the flashy new TomTom’s as I got it from Very.co.uk like a lot of others as it was £149 instead of £419 
robroy:
happysack:
kelly1:
if your using a car sat nav and driving a 44t artic you might as well drive with blinkers on…simpleswhat a load of [zb] bull [zb]
Agreed, it’s a matter of individual choice,
If you HAVE A BRAIN and can use a standard sat nav with no drama or problem, crack on.Or even if you are anything ranging from a fully competent good driver, to a pig [zb] thick in bred type ‘‘driver’’ who will be forever useless as long as he posesses an arse hole.
In either category.
If you feel you can not do the job without being told absolutely everything without having to think, get a one and crack on.
or
If you are more comfortable as using as a guide, and you prefer one, then again…crack on.What should not be done is generalise every driver with a one size fits all legislation, and force one of those [zb] overpriced truck designated things on every category mentioned, …including those like me who neither want nor need one.
As I said…Matter of individual choice
…
Completely agree it would also like to add that other agencies and even the LGA need to play their part in this by firstly knowing what they’re talking about as well as making sure proper signage is put in the correct places and also maintained…not just us who play a part in this but as usual left holding the bag cos someone got a stick up his arse
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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metricati … ed_Kingdom
The treaty of accession to the European Economic Community (EEC), which the United Kingdom joined in 1973, obliged the United Kingdom to incorporate into domestic law all EEC directives, including the use of a prescribed SI-based set of units for many purposes within five years.
Just think, if wed actually got on with it FORTY THREE years ago we wouldnt be arguing about feet inches and metres to-day. Well, one or two of “the usual suspects” would.
I have a coupla quid 5metre tape measure in my cab. Stand on catwalk and hook it on top of trailer, measure to rubbing plate. Jump (sorry, descend carefully) off catwalk and measure rubbing plate to ground. Takes less than a minute, and if your arithmetic ain1t up to much, most phones have calculators to add the two measurements. I don`t do this every time I hitch up, but if on a route with a low bridge I do. Our trailers are marked, but the exercise of check-measuring the trailer makes me stop and think, and consider alternative routes. Sometimes an otherwise sensible driver will make a stupid choice, but given an enforced pause may change it for a better one.
My gaffer has all his trucks fitted with HGV prat navs.They are all inputted with the correct dimensions and maximum payload.We are required to input our destination into them for every job we do,regardless of wether we can find our own way or not.Something to do with being able to see our ETA to jobs on the office computers and not having to bother us with phone calls.
Obviously if i know my own way to a destination i don’t take any notice of the way the nav is trying to take me but i have observed in areas that i know well that it does try to take me on routes that would amount to career suicide.Low bridges,weak bridges,weight limits and narrow lanes.
Moral of the story is only a wally will follow any type of prat nav blindly.
AndrewG:
As for bridge/trailer height markings its a metric world we live in now and imo should all be marked in metric. Yes, its a drivers responsibility to read bridge heights but if the UK followed the rest of Europe with 4m max trailers half these strikes wouldnt even happen, no one ‘needs’ to run with ridiculously tall 4.6/ 4.9m trailers. If you want to double stack a lighter gvw low ride drawbar outfit does the job just fine without going over the 4m limit…
You are wrong on very many levels there.
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We do not live in a metric world. Europe has gone metric but two of the largest economies in the world, the USA and the UK are both Imperial. We use miles, feet and inches on every roadsign. Not Kilometers, Meters and Millimeters. If Jonny Foreigner wants to come over here and run his European kit on our roads thats fine, but he should be the one to get a calculator out, not the bloke thats never run an inch into Europe.
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Vauxhall Aftersales run a fleet of custom built 16’3" double deck trailers because they have to, not because they can. Its about fitting the roll cages on double decked. Even at 16’3" they have to wind the roof up to get the top deck cages on! Now I am sure that you will come back with a statement that perhaps vauxhall should use smaller cages, but I will ask why? we have the space in the UK. Lets use it and reduce emissions but running fewer vehicles. Lets not make our companies invest hundreds of thousands replacing perfectly serviceable equipment just to keep EU rules makers happy.
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Low ride drawbar vehicles are very good for certain applications. They are terrible for others, like tight and twisty roads. We have a lot of them in the UK, why the hell would you spec a vehicle wholly unsuited to a large percentage of our road network? It just increases the risk of damage, increases the risk a driver will get stuck and need to be pulled out, it increases cost. It also means that because you have a Rigid and Drawbar combination you can’t as easily use one vehicle for multiple types of work. I put a unit on the road and on Monday it can pull a double decker, on Tuesday it can do brick and block, Wednesday it can have a tanker on the back and Thursday I could do car delivery. Friday, well it all depends on what time I want to be home.
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At a guess, a 4m height restriction would put a good 35% of the UKs trailer stock out of use. It would probably kill off the vehicle transport industry. Every unit and trailer involved in container work would need to be replaced as a 40HC container runs at 14’6" on a standard UK vehicle, or 4.4196 meters. Even a standard 40ft container is 4.1 meters tall on a UK standard skelly.
Europe’s rules work for Europe, they rarely work well in the UK and a 4m maximum height would be the death of the UK transport industry.
merc0447:
Or if the ■■■ lighter is broken they start crying in the transport office for another truck
Does your phone/tablet/lappy work on gas then? 
nsmith1180:
AndrewG:
As for bridge/trailer height markings its a metric world we live in now and imo should all be marked in metric. Yes, its a drivers responsibility to read bridge heights but if the UK followed the rest of Europe with 4m max trailers half these strikes wouldnt even happen, no one ‘needs’ to run with ridiculously tall 4.6/ 4.9m trailers. If you want to double stack a lighter gvw low ride drawbar outfit does the job just fine without going over the 4m limit…You are wrong on very many levels there.
We do not live in a metric world. Europe has gone metric but two of the largest economies in the world, the USA and the UK are both Imperial. We use miles, feet and inches on every roadsign. Not Kilometers, Meters and Millimeters. If Jonny Foreigner wants to come over here and run his European kit on our roads thats fine, but he should be the one to get a calculator out, not the bloke thats never run an inch into Europe.
Vauxhall Aftersales run a fleet of custom built 16’3" double deck trailers because they have to, not because they can. Its about fitting the roll cages on double decked. Even at 16’3" they have to wind the roof up to get the top deck cages on! Now I am sure that you will come back with a statement that perhaps vauxhall should use smaller cages, but I will ask why? we have the space in the UK. Lets use it and reduce emissions but running fewer vehicles. Lets not make our companies invest hundreds of thousands replacing perfectly serviceable equipment just to keep EU rules makers happy.
Low ride drawbar vehicles are very good for certain applications. They are terrible for others, like tight and twisty roads. We have a lot of them in the UK, why the hell would you spec a vehicle wholly unsuited to a large percentage of our road network? It just increases the risk of damage, increases the risk a driver will get stuck and need to be pulled out, it increases cost. It also means that because you have a Rigid and Drawbar combination you can’t as easily use one vehicle for multiple types of work. I put a unit on the road and on Monday it can pull a double decker, on Tuesday it can do brick and block, Wednesday it can have a tanker on the back and Thursday I could do car delivery. Friday, well it all depends on what time I want to be home.
At a guess, a 4m height restriction would put a good 35% of the UKs trailer stock out of use. It would probably kill off the vehicle transport industry. Every unit and trailer involved in container work would need to be replaced as a 40HC container runs at 14’6" on a standard UK vehicle, or 4.4196 meters. Even a standard 40ft container is 4.1 meters tall on a UK standard skelly.
Europe’s rules work for Europe, they rarely work well in the UK and a 4m maximum height would be the death of the UK transport industry.
- Correct it is not a Metric world. Just mostly. The UK is not Imperial: when did you last see a lb of potatoes, cwt of cement or bushel of wheat? Timber is offered in widths measured in mm and lengths in feet or metres. The UK has been a foolish mixture for decades now.
- Vauxhall “have to” run 16`3" trailers? No. They choose to. They may say their is good economic reasons but there is no compulsion. And at that height they are limiting there choice of routes. Up to them.
- Low rides are probably not as limited in usable roads as a 16
3" high trailer. You can of course put a tractor unit under any trailer. But having one unit under one trailer with another 3 or 4 expensive specialist sat waiting, dont make much sense to me. - I agree there is no need for a 4m height limit in the UK. But it would be good for hauliers: smaller trucks equals more of `em. Not a suggestion just an observation.
Franglais:
- Correct it is not a Metric world. Just mostly. The UK is not Imperial: when did you last see a lb of potatoes, cwt of cement or bushel of wheat? Timber is offered in widths measured in mm and lengths in feet or metres. The UK has been a foolish mixture for decades now.
Hence the joke some of the Germans I’ve worked with have told me,
Britain is going metric inch by inch. 
nsmith1180:
AndrewG:
As for bridge/trailer height markings its a metric world we live in now and imo should all be marked in metric. Yes, its a drivers responsibility to read bridge heights but if the UK followed the rest of Europe with 4m max trailers half these strikes wouldnt even happen, no one ‘needs’ to run with ridiculously tall 4.6/ 4.9m trailers. If you want to double stack a lighter gvw low ride drawbar outfit does the job just fine without going over the 4m limit…You are wrong on very many levels there.
We do not live in a metric world. Europe has gone metric but two of the largest economies in the world, the USA and the UK are both Imperial. We use miles, feet and inches on every roadsign. Not Kilometers, Meters and Millimeters. If Jonny Foreigner wants to come over here and run his European kit on our roads thats fine, but he should be the one to get a calculator out, not the bloke thats never run an inch into Europe.
Vauxhall Aftersales run a fleet of custom built 16’3" double deck trailers because they have to, not because they can. Its about fitting the roll cages on double decked. Even at 16’3" they have to wind the roof up to get the top deck cages on! Now I am sure that you will come back with a statement that perhaps vauxhall should use smaller cages, but I will ask why? we have the space in the UK. Lets use it and reduce emissions but running fewer vehicles. Lets not make our companies invest hundreds of thousands replacing perfectly serviceable equipment just to keep EU rules makers happy.
Low ride drawbar vehicles are very good for certain applications. They are terrible for others, like tight and twisty roads. We have a lot of them in the UK, why the hell would you spec a vehicle wholly unsuited to a large percentage of our road network? It just increases the risk of damage, increases the risk a driver will get stuck and need to be pulled out, it increases cost. It also means that because you have a Rigid and Drawbar combination you can’t as easily use one vehicle for multiple types of work. I put a unit on the road and on Monday it can pull a double decker, on Tuesday it can do brick and block, Wednesday it can have a tanker on the back and Thursday I could do car delivery. Friday, well it all depends on what time I want to be home.
At a guess, a 4m height restriction would put a good 35% of the UKs trailer stock out of use. It would probably kill off the vehicle transport industry. Every unit and trailer involved in container work would need to be replaced as a 40HC container runs at 14’6" on a standard UK vehicle, or 4.4196 meters. Even a standard 40ft container is 4.1 meters tall on a UK standard skelly.
Europe’s rules work for Europe, they rarely work well in the UK and a 4m maximum height would be the death of the UK transport industry.
The UK is metric not imperial, where did you get that idea from??
Re trailer heights if the rest of Europe can do it so can the UK, just the usual ones here digging their heels in assuming as per that it ‘wouldnt work in the UK’…and youre one of them 
As for reducing emissions, the taller the trailer the higher wind resistance equalling higher fuel consumption as even the tallest units with roof deflector wont clear a 5M trailer…
nsmith1180:
AndrewG:
As for bridge/trailer height markings its a metric world we live in now and imo should all be marked in metric. Yes, its a drivers responsibility to read bridge heights but if the UK followed the rest of Europe with 4m max trailers half these strikes wouldnt even happen, no one ‘needs’ to run with ridiculously tall 4.6/ 4.9m trailers. If you want to double stack a lighter gvw low ride drawbar outfit does the job just fine without going over the 4m limit…
nsmith1180:
2) Vauxhall Aftersales run a fleet of custom built 16’3" double deck trailers because they have to, not because they can. Its about fitting the roll cages on double decked. Even at 16’3" they have to wind the roof up to get the top deck cages on! Now I am sure that you will come back with a statement that perhaps vauxhall should use smaller cages, but I will ask why? we have the space in the UK. Lets use it and reduce emissions but running fewer vehicles. Lets not make our companies invest hundreds of thousands replacing perfectly serviceable equipment just to keep EU rules makers happy.
There are 4m high double deck trailers able to take 2 decks of 1.8m roll cages, and as for emissions surely a 4m trailer is more streamlined especially as most European tractor unit are designed to match them.
nsmith1180:
3) Low ride drawbar vehicles are very good for certain applications. They are terrible for others, like tight and twisty roads. We have a lot of them in the UK, why the hell would you spec a vehicle wholly unsuited to a large percentage of our road network? It just increases the risk of damage, increases the risk a driver will get stuck and need to be pulled out, it increases cost. It also means that because you have a Rigid and Drawbar combination you can’t as easily use one vehicle for multiple types of work. I put a unit on the road and on Monday it can pull a double decker, on Tuesday it can do brick and block, Wednesday it can have a tanker on the back and Thursday I could do car delivery. Friday, well it all depends on what time I want to be home.
They do have a lot of tight twisty roads in other parts of Europe, seem to manage with them. and as Franglias said much of the UK road network is unsuitable for high trailers due to low bridges. You do know they have a lot of artics in Europe you don’t have to use a wagon and drag for low ride work. And if you wanted flexibility you could have a low ride unit with a duel height fifth wheel.
nsmith1180:
4) At a guess, a 4m height restriction would put a good 35% of the UKs trailer stock out of use. It would probably kill off the vehicle transport industry. Every unit and trailer involved in container work would need to be replaced as a 40HC container runs at 14’6" on a standard UK vehicle, or 4.4196 meters. Even a standard 40ft container is 4.1 meters tall on a UK standard skelly.
Yes much if the UK’s fleet would have to be replaced, if we went to 4m, personally I’m not in favour, but not running trailers that can be used in Europe leads to another problem. Many UK hauliers have an International licence, but if they get the odd load into Europe they can’t take it as they haven’t got a trailer to put it on and there is no point having a fleet of 4m trailers if you’re not doing regular European runs.
nsmith1180:
Europe’s rules work for Europe, they rarely work well in the UK and a 4m maximum height would be the death of the UK transport industry.
A bit Dramatic. 
if it did happen it wouldn’t be overnight, and goods need to be moved so they will get moved, regardless of the regulations that are put in place.
Why not use Megas?
Strange thing happened this morning, the M62 was rammed heading towards gate 18, that’s not so strange, but it was due to an Owl or a Pigeon, or some arse that cant drive(delete as appropriate) so I took the executive decision to head off at 19 and run up to the A58 then over to the M66 drop down one junction to get into Heywood distribution park. Now in the process of doing this, my “car” sat nav was giving me all these new routes to get to Heywood, but they all had big signs banning anything weighing over 7.5 tonnes, so I ignored My sat Nav, much to its un doubted annoyance, and kept going on the route as described earlier. It wasn’t really that difficult, I just used my knowledge of written English to ignore any road that had been made unavailable to use with my truck 
and so I arrived at my destination without any drama. We don’t need truck sat navs, we need drivers with common sense, when did it all go wrong