Another general election

OUT OF HOURS BULLY'S TRUCKSTOP BAR (INTERACTIVE)
81

Stanley Knife:
After reading the manifesto’s of the four leading parties (yes I am that sad) I can only come to the conclusion that the choice is between a commie, terrorist-loving tramp, a traitorous, anti-democratic liberal ■■■■■■, a clueless kipper and a big-state, Blairite Tory.

What a zbing choice! :unamused:

The big question in all that being how and why did Farage go from the person we saw before and during the lead up to the referendum,shouting we want our country back,to where he is now ?.Having said that I think UKIP is at least hopefully still definitely all about hard Brexit no ifs no buts,anti global warmist,hard line on immigration,and not in the pockets of the property developers,in which case maybe he’s not a rocket scientist,but still what’s not to like. :bulb:

82

May’s manifesto has absolutely bombed; lead down from 20% to 9% or 12% depending on the poll. Does she have the ability to be the Tories Gordon Brown? not as insane, but as incapable, in a job she’s schemed for over the years but has no actual clue where to start, never mind where she’s going. She seems to have no leadership abilities to speak of and could hardly be called inspiring.

Unfortunately her vision of a newly sovereign UK sound worse than being in the EU. What happened to Global Britain? What is the point in leaving if we are going to impose equally retarded crap on ourselves? Can’t see anything else but her rolling over and giving the EU everything they want.

I feel she expected a large majority which would enable her to get through a very weak Brexit with little opposition, and she has decided to slip in some nasty Tory policies on the back of a pro-Brexit vote. If so she’s a politician of the lowest kind.

When it comes to understanding British people she needs to turn to our hopes, fears and emotions. Simply put, we in these islands have grown up to understand that ‘An Englishman’s home is his castle’. Now she’s quite happy to take that away to pay for your care whilst someone who hasn’t struck a bat gets it all for nowt. Intellectualise it as much as you want, but if you step away from those fundamental emotional attachments that we have to our culture, you’ll get punished.

83

Well i still haven’t got a bloody clue why we are having an election at all, and quite why May seems to be trying to poison the fake conservative party’s position.

Targetting pensioners and those who have stood on their own two feet, and not been a burden on society, when they become old and suffer failing health has got to be one of the crassest moves by a politician seeking election as i’ve seen in some time.

I too am baffled by Farage, if he was still leader of UKIP gobbing off every day about the tory plans, i reckon this election could really have seen UKIP sweeping the rest aside.

Brexit i am convinced is going to be an unmitigated mess where we go from being half in to being half bloody out, still paying, still open borders, still without our fishing waters returned, a Brexit without honour, betrayed in the time honoured tradition of the tory party, which seems to be returning to the days of traitor heath.
I’d like to say the working people of the country will punish them bitterly in the next election, but sadly too many brits are like their leaders buyable so some bread and circuses in the 12 months leading to the next election will soon ave them back on track.

The British Lion would appear to be on its uppers, probably watching Jeremy East Enders Dancing or some garbage, whether it will ever find the strength to muster pitchforks and do what should have been done long ago with our treasonous leaders is the question…ie boot them all out on their arses and put some genuinely honourable patriots in the House instead.

84

Stanley Knife:
May’s manifesto has absolutely bombed; lead down from 20% to 9% or 12% depending on the poll. Does she have the ability to be the Tories Gordon Brown? not as insane, but as incapable, in a job she’s schemed for over the years but has no actual clue where to start, never mind where she’s going. She seems to have no leadership abilities to speak of and could hardly be called inspiring.

Unfortunately her vision of a newly sovereign UK sound worse than being in the EU. What happened to Global Britain? What is the point in leaving if we are going to impose equally retarded crap on ourselves? Can’t see anything else but her rolling over and giving the EU everything they want.

I feel she expected a large majority which would enable her to get through a very weak Brexit with little opposition, and she has decided to slip in some nasty Tory policies on the back of a pro-Brexit vote. If so she’s a politician of the lowest kind.

When it comes to understanding British people she needs to turn to our hopes, fears and emotions. Simply put, we in these islands have grown up to understand that ‘An Englishman’s home is his castle’. Now she’s quite happy to take that away to pay for your care whilst someone who hasn’t struck a bat gets it all for nowt. Intellectualise it as much as you want, but if you step away from those fundamental emotional attachments that we have to our culture, you’ll get punished.

I think it goes along the lines of her and Hammond are either deliberately trying to create the same situation that the Cons were in previously,by deliberately alienating their vote and thereby needing the LibDems to prop them up,so as to use the diversion of the LibDems to defeat the referendum decision.Or she’s trying to hold Brexit to ransom by saying give her a blank cheque to turn full on state control including state theft of private property rights.With the reasons for the stalling of Brexit now being clear in that regard.

Look on the bright side these scumbags are now looking very vulnerable to a full on UKIP attack ‘if’ it can get its act together quick.In which case Farage’s call to UKIP’s vote to blindly follow her was yet another of his misjudgements like his support of Trump,although the latter was more forgivable.

Starting with the questions why did we need a general election to supposedly provide a mandate for Brexit.When the referendum was supposed to have already provided that mandate and since when were the Cons the party of state control,takeover and theft of private property rights.When people have been led to believe that care costs are the responsibility of the state and based their wage demands on that proviso.While if the state isn’t prepared to take on those costs then they needed to be covered by private insurance and those costs passed back into the economy in the form of wages.With it being too late now to fix that for anyone who’s missed the boat having been misled in that regard during their working lives.In which case that obviously doesn’t now justify the effective state theft of their property to meet the bill. :bulb:

Conservatives more like full on Chinese Communists. :imp: No surprise there.

chinahospeq.com:9001/hospeq/ … 54gwtf.pdf

itv.com/news/2016-09-05/ther … i-jinping/

85

Someone, somewhere in The Conservative Party or it’s backers is laughing their cotton socks off so much it must be painful by now. We promise them everything, deliver nothing, charge them a fortune for it and then ■■■■ up their backs . . . and they lap it up!

Oh for a centre right political party to wipe the loony liberal left of the face of the political map . . .

Now I wonder what happened there? . .

86

Stanley Knife:
Someone, somewhere in The Conservative Party or it’s backers is laughing their cotton socks off so much it must be painful by now. We promise them everything, deliver nothing, charge them a fortune for it and then ■■■■ up their backs . . . and they lap it up!

Oh for a centre right political party to wipe the loony liberal left of the face of the political map . . .

Now I wonder what happened there? . .

See above statement ‘and they lap it up’.IE probably a case of the electorate gets what it deserves. :bulb:

From LibDems supposedly committed to ‘democracy’,while at the same time wanting to be ruled by a Federal European dictatorship,in the form of decisions made by unelected commissioners being rubber stamped by a foreign majority vote.With the same applying to so called Scottish ‘Nationalists’.To a Labour Party preaching Brit jobs for Brit workers while standing for the total opposite.To so called ‘Conservatives’ acting like Chinese Communists in the centralised imposition of everything from concreting over the South East with housing development and airport capacity to the state inspired theft of private property probably in large part in all cases to create returns for Chinese ‘investors’.While at the same time also supporting the handing over of whatever sovereignty and control we have left,after the Chinese Communists have taken their cut,to the same EUSSR government system that the LabLibSNP bunch of muppets want to.With the electorate being too blind to see it.

The smoking gun being the question as Juddian has rightly asked why did/do we actually need this election ?.Followed by why was Brexit seemingly ( unarguably ) stalled to conveniently match that ?.

87

Why do we want an election? To have a big Conservative majority so we can go to those nasty EU officials and tell them what we want, so we can get a really good deal. Well that’s the official version anyway, the unofficial version is this is all about Theresa May and satisfying her ego. For in Theresa’s mind she comes first, the Tory party second and every other poor soul somewhere after that.

Today she has been insisting that “nothing has changed” and that the social care cap is not a departure from the manifesto. Problem with that is that on Thursday Jeremy Hunt explicitly said on the Today programme that the cap was being dropped:

“If you have that cap that was his proposal [Andrew Dilnot]… and we couldn’t be being clearer because . . . not only are we dropping it, but we’re dropping it ahead of a General Election and we’re being completely explicit in our manifesto that we’re dropping it, and we’re dropping it because we’ve looked again at this proposal and we don’t think it’s fair.”

Now if the Health Secretary says we’re dropping it but Joint Chief of Staff Nick Timothy, an un-elected SpAd, says it goes in you have to question who is actually deciding policy. Especially when the Bow Group says:

“These proposals will mean that the majority of property owning citizens could be transferring the bulk of their assets to the government upon death for care they have already paid a lifetime of taxes to receive. It is likely to represent the biggest stealth tax in history”

If you take a multi-decade look at our society, since perhaps 1945, you see that every decade there is a drag of some group or other into a “protected” (from paying) status; the poorest, the youngest, the oldest… and that has been good, it’s a mark of the society that we would wish to live in.

But after seven decades, where are we? The scope of our welfare and supporting state is vast; housing benefits, open-ended dole without any kind of timescale, lifestyle medical operations, translation services into over two hundred languages within our Justice system, the list goes on and on. This in conjunction with an ever diminishing set of unprotected taxpayers. Both Tories and Labour are as bad as each other, basically offering to buy votes at each GE by offering to protect more of their tribes, at the expense of someone else. It all seems on a trajectory to unaffordability. Add in increasing longevity and I think we risk fundamental collapse.

The point is though that that care has to come out of someone’s earnings, someone along the line has to pay.We voters are indeed selfish. Who wouldn’t want the government to step in and offer to pay for something that we gain, or something that previously we paid for or did without? Politicians know this, they just slice and dice us all into little groups of selfishness, then offer to get everyone that is not us to pay for everything we want for free. And we vote for them like sheep.

88

Stanley Knife:
Why do we want an election? To have a big Conservative majority so we can go to those nasty EU officials and tell them what we want, so we can get a really good deal. Well that’s the official version anyway, the unofficial version is this is all about Theresa May and satisfying her ego. For in Theresa’s mind she comes first, the Tory party second and every other poor soul somewhere after that.

Today she has been insisting that “nothing has changed” and that the social care cap is not a departure from the manifesto. Problem with that is that on Thursday Jeremy Hunt explicitly said on the Today programme that the cap was being dropped:

“If you have that cap that was his proposal [Andrew Dilnot]… and we couldn’t be being clearer because . . . not only are we dropping it, but we’re dropping it ahead of a General Election and we’re being completely explicit in our manifesto that we’re dropping it, and we’re dropping it because we’ve looked again at this proposal and we don’t think it’s fair.”

Now if the Health Secretary says we’re dropping it but Joint Chief of Staff Nick Timothy, an un-elected SpAd, says it goes in you have to question who is actually deciding policy. Especially when the Bow Group says:

“These proposals will mean that the majority of property owning citizens could be transferring the bulk of their assets to the government upon death for care they have already paid a lifetime of taxes to receive. It is likely to represent the biggest stealth tax in history”

If you take a multi-decade look at our society, since perhaps 1945, you see that every decade there is a drag of some group or other into a “protected” (from paying) status; the poorest, the youngest, the oldest… and that has been good, it’s a mark of the society that we would wish to live in.

But after seven decades, where are we? The scope of our welfare and supporting state is vast; housing benefits, open-ended dole without any kind of timescale, lifestyle medical operations, translation services into over two hundred languages within our Justice system, the list goes on and on. This in conjunction with an ever diminishing set of unprotected taxpayers. Both Tories and Labour are as bad as each other, basically offering to buy votes at each GE by offering to protect more of their tribes, at the expense of someone else. It all seems on a trajectory to unaffordability. Add in increasing longevity and I think we risk fundamental collapse.

The point is though that that care has to come out of someone’s earnings, someone along the line has to pay.We voters are indeed selfish. Who wouldn’t want the government to step in and offer to pay for something that we gain, or something that previously we paid for or did without? Politicians know this, they just slice and dice us all into little groups of selfishness, then offer to get everyone that is not us to pay for everything we want for free. And we vote for them like sheep.

:confused:

Realistically health care and social security costs can only be paid for privately or a by a state funded system.The problems arise when they try to use the mix and match rationed type of mess that we’ve got.But what we can’t have is any situation in which those declared unfit to do their ‘own’ type of job aren’t covered indefinitely if required.Or if they lose their job their incomes aren’t covered regardless of how long it takes to find other relevant work.Or if they are retired and/or disabled to the point of general incabability,their hard earned property is thieved by the state to cover their care costs.IE one way or another those costs need to be passed back into the economy to pay for the required cover and funding.

As opposed to what we’ve got in the form of a social security and care system system that isn’t fit for purpose.Because it’s all about saving employers as much cash as possible in the form of rationing to the point of the so called state ‘cover’ being effectively non existent as in this case and/or so the government can divert the funds into the general tax requirement,to save those earning the most from paying their fair share of the general tax burden.

Which explains why the Cons aren’t keen on the idea of a private funded income protection and health care system and want to keep the state system staggering on using the usual calls of scroungers to justify the attendant rationing of it.

While it seems obvious that it’s going to take a new type of Labour Party that can think outside of the Socialist dependency culture box to fix all that.Not yet more of May’s Conservative Party lies which as usual are all about maximising profits for big business at the expensive of the working class.Whether that be declaring workers declared as unfit to do their own job/trade,as fit enough to to get a job doing whatever hypothetical work that ATOS arbitrarily decides.Or the hard earned property of disabled/retired workers being thieved by the state to cover care costs which should have been covered by insurance funded by those workers’ wages when they were working.With those costs passed back into the economy in the form of prices or reduced profit margins.

The big question is can UKIP do that ‘new type of Labour Party’.With them at least making the right noises regarding May’s property grab in that regard.

89

It has come to light that Theresa May has already consulted on the dementia tax with the Insurance industry. This is a quote from a City source re dementia tax;

The insurance industry was approached by the Government several months ago with the aim of creating a new market for a new product. People need to read the small print associated with this new product because its a lot nastier than it looks. You wont have to sell your house provided that you purchase an insurance product to cover your social care. The “premiums” would be recovered from the equity after the house has been sold and the Insurance company will have a lien on the house and can force a sale if it wants to. The real kicker in this is that in order to encourage the industry to market these products the government guaranteed that there would be no cap on the premiums.

This was in some ways “atonement” for Osborne’s destruction of the highly lucrative annuities market. This means that the premiums could be up to, and including, the entire remaining equity in the property after the government has taken its cut. Companies will be falling over themselves to get their snouts in this trough. In short your offspring and relatives could get absolutely nothing from your estate.

90

Stanley Knife:
It has come to light that Theresa May has already consulted on the dementia tax with the Insurance industry. This is a quote from a City source re dementia tax;

The insurance industry was approached by the Government several months ago with the aim of creating a new market for a new product. People need to read the small print associated with this new product because its a lot nastier than it looks. You wont have to sell your house provided that you purchase an insurance product to cover your social care. The “premiums” would be recovered from the equity after the house has been sold and the Insurance company will have a lien on the house and can force a sale if it wants to. The real kicker in this is that in order to encourage the industry to market these products the government guaranteed that there would be no cap on the premiums.

This was in some ways “atonement” for Osborne’s destruction of the highly lucrative annuities market. This means that the premiums could be up to, and including, the entire remaining equity in the property after the government has taken its cut. Companies will be falling over themselves to get their snouts in this trough. In short your offspring and relatives could get absolutely nothing from your estate.

How can such a ‘product’ possibly fit the definition of an ‘insurance’ funded health care system.When the usually accepted definition means monthly or yearly premiums paid up front over the term of the policy from day one.What next car and home and income protection etc etc insurers saying they’ll no longer accept a yearly premium.But they’ll take the premiums required later on out of any assets the insured builds up in the future,at any arbitrary unlimited rate the insurer feels like taking.Picture the scene of numerous different insurance providers all fighting for the largest share of the pot.

Thereby saving employers yet another cost in wages needed to pay the premiums of the normally accepted idea of ‘insurance’.While how does any type of insurance based system help those families with existing estates,which have already been created,on the basis that they’d been led to believe ( mis sold ) the idea that the state was responsible for such costs.

This woman and her stinking Party are a liability to the country and its people and if we don’t now see a massive swing to UKIP it’ll unfortunately get what it deserves.But even more unfortunately taking those of us with more sense down with it. :frowning:

91

Carryfast:

Stanley Knife:
It has come to light that Theresa May has already consulted on the dementia tax with the Insurance industry. This is a quote from a City source re dementia tax;

The insurance industry was approached by the Government several months ago with the aim of creating a new market for a new product. People need to read the small print associated with this new product because its a lot nastier than it looks. You wont have to sell your house provided that you purchase an insurance product to cover your social care. The “premiums” would be recovered from the equity after the house has been sold and the Insurance company will have a lien on the house and can force a sale if it wants to. The real kicker in this is that in order to encourage the industry to market these products the government guaranteed that there would be no cap on the premiums.

This was in some ways “atonement” for Osborne’s destruction of the highly lucrative annuities market. This means that the premiums could be up to, and including, the entire remaining equity in the property after the government has taken its cut. Companies will be falling over themselves to get their snouts in this trough. In short your offspring and relatives could get absolutely nothing from your estate.

How can such a ‘product’ possibly fit the definition of an ‘insurance’ funded health care system.When the usually accepted definition means monthly or yearly premiums paid up front over the term of the policy from day one.What next car and home and income protection etc etc insurers saying they’ll no longer accept a yearly premium.But they’ll take the premiums required later on out of any assets the insured builds up in the future,at any arbitrary unlimited rate the insurer feels like taking.Picture the scene of numerous different insurance providers all fighting for the largest share of the pot.

Thereby saving employers yet another cost in wages needed to pay the premiums of the normally accepted idea of ‘insurance’.While how does any type of insurance based system help those families with existing estates,which have already been created,on the basis that they’d been led to believe ( mis sold ) the idea that the state was responsible for such costs.

This woman and her stinking Party are a liability to the country and its people and if we don’t now see a massive swing to UKIP it’ll unfortunately get what it deserves.But even more unfortunately taking those of us with more sense down with it. :frowning:

So do I take it that you wont be “going down” “CF” Cheers Bewick.

92

Having listened to Mrs Jelly and read beteen the lines very carefully it is abundantly clear that her Filthies have plans which they won’t reveal, to stab you in the back. That is if some terrorist doesn’t get you first, which is much more likely if you live outside London. This THING is an abysmal failure, everything we hear from it echoes:

youtube.com/watch?v=UH-AafkQPEo

93

Diane Abbott cancels radio appearance after embarrassing Sky News interview
news.sky.com/story/diane-abbott- … s-10905847

Just a warning, a vote for Labour is a vote for Diane Abbott as Home Secretary :open_mouth:

94

OVLOV JAY:
Diane Abbott cancels radio appearance after embarrassing Sky News interview
news.sky.com/story/diane-abbott- … s-10905847

Just a warning, a vote for Labour is a vote for Diane Abbott as Home Secretary :open_mouth:

To be fair May’s gushing praise of Kahn,who’s obviously calling for Jihadist rights and judicial process,rather than just an offer they can’t refuse of an extra judicial bullet or two in the head and having a go at Trump when Trump for once gets it right.While saying it’s supposedly all about her credentials regarding Brexit,when all she’s done is stall it and derail it and then finally called a needles election,to supposedly create a mandate for it,when she’s already been given that in the form of the referendum result.With the obvious intention of handing the Brexit initiatiative to her remain SNP/lab/LibDem allies.While at the same time being cooperative with Trump when it suits her regarding appeasement of the Saudi savages.Not to mention wanting to concrete over the South East and nick the private property of anyone needing care.Says it all and doesn’t exactly make her anything like an electable choice.On that note we’d probably be better off letting Corbyn take the place over as then we’ll stand more chance of getting the real backlash,against the Socialist and treacherous Con agendas,which the country needs.

95

Well lads, there’s not one reason i can find to vote for any of them, UKIP is a no go because our sitting MP is a decent stick and a Brexiteer (so they agreed not to stand against ) but he’s stranded in a party led by remainer Android May and her remainer cabinet and i simply don’t believe them

So, can’t be arsed to vote at all, first time for me since i voted no in the 1975 common market betrayal led by, now lets think about this, er, ah yes, another tory who couldn’t be trusted.

I so want to have the chance to vote for something again, like we did Brexit last year, i do not want to only have the choice of who leads the coming death of our once fine country :cry:

96

Juddian:
Well lads, there’s not one reason i can find to vote for any of them, UKIP is a no go because our sitting MP is a decent stick and a Brexiteer (so they agreed not to stand against ) but he’s stranded in a party led by remainer Android May and her remainer cabinet and i simply don’t believe them

So, can’t be arsed to vote at all, first time for me since i voted no in the 1975 common market betrayal led by, now lets think about this, er, ah yes, another tory who couldn’t be trusted.

I so want to have the chance to vote for something again, like we did Brexit last year, i do not want to only have the choice of who leads the coming death of our once fine country :cry:

I don’t get the UKIP plan of not standing against so called Brexit Cons.When the Cons are as hopeless and treacherous to the country as the LibDems.While the fact that we’ve got Ions standing against Raab here at least seems to contradict that excuse.Which can only mean that those local UKIP constituencies have been infiltrated by a Con agenda just like Carswell’s rabble.While having discussed the issues with the local UKIP Party leadership they’ve made it clear that they agree with my views regarding trusting the Cons and May and thanked me for my vote.Although we’ve obviously got no chance here in a 60/40 remain constituency which will be a fight between LibDem v Cons in which Raab could find himself in a similar situation as Goldsmith in the Richmond Park by election previously.His answer to my questions,as to why did May choose such a precarious plan,rather than staying where she was and getting on with Brexit ( they supposedly needed a mandate for it ) and then no surprise refusing to answer the question what ‘mandate’,when the referendum vote was supposed to be the relevant ‘mandate’,saying everything about the lying zb’s.Which then just leaves the question of the zb constituency based electoral system as opposed to PR which gives the SNP 56 seats for 1.5 million votes v effectively nothing for almost 4 million UKIP. :imp:

97

I voted a few weeks ago for the same party that I have voted for at each election since I was old enough to have a vote and I’m nearly 67 now. Doesn’t seem to have made any major difference to my life whoever has been in control so I just carry on as normal, no point studying all the manifestos or listening to prattle on tv as most of it will never happen plus lifes too short and I have better things to do with it anyway.

Pete.

98

Well I voted for May, but only because I think Corbyn is getting a hell of a lot of support. I reckon it’ll be him as pm from a hung parliament. I’m not looking forward to it :cry:

99

OVLOV JAY:
Well I voted for May, but only because I think Corbyn is getting a hell of a lot of support. I reckon it’ll be him as pm from a hung parliament. I’m not looking forward to it :cry:

Ironically if we do end up with Corbyn in the driving seat it would have been May that put him there.

While as I’ve said the election is obviously a re run of the Brexit referendum this time on constituency lines in which remain winning was always going to be a foregone conclusion.Which is why she deliberately stalled Brexit and then decided to take out her own government.All that having been the remain dominated Cons plan from the start.On that note it’s anyone’s guess how the Leave vote can possibly see her as being an electable option regardless of the vagaries of the electoral system which the collapsed UKIP vote has stupidly allowed itself to be put off by.Let alone to add insult to injury then thinking that the Cons,having put two remainers in the top jobs,ever had or have the slightest intention of delivering it.Not to mention the muppets,probably deliberately,having made themselves unelectable on other numerous issues locally and nationally other than for their most committed,naive,remain core vote.In addition to the turncoat UKIP vote that obviously thinks that it’s better to trust May,than to stick with UKIP and go for electoral reform which gives its vote real parliamentary representation.

On that note the whole saga will probably end up yet again as a case of the electorate getting the government and the country it deserves. :unamused:

100

No surprise that May’s stitch up predictably went entirely to plan and already the remainers have come come crawling out from under their stones saying that it’s a vote for so called ‘soft Brexit’ ( remain ).As for UKIP voters voting for Corbyn and May what total mugs. :unamused: :imp: