This subject has been done to death here!
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=78447
dieseldave:
Link to geebee45’s post on DCPC training hours
Some of you lot should get a grip, 8hours training on a saturday and your moaning that your not getting enough weekly rest, its not like your doing it week in week out, its not even recorded on your card so whats the ■■■■■■■ problem? Typical jumped up drivers that think their so hard done by all the time!
Whirlwind:
My week finishes @4 am on a Friday and week starts @10 Pm Sunday , I was asked to attend a cpc @8 am Saturday , I declined due to insufficient weekly rest . Now according to the agency who are course organizers it does not count as working time unless you are being paid to attend. Is this correct or just another grey area for abuse
This letter was a response directly from VOSA to a query to the exact same question. It was sent on VOSA headed letter head and signed by the lady who responded, which is a very rare thing these days. Thanks to Macolm Stockill for send this info to me. Malcolm originally received a letter from Mike Penning the transport minister and it was then reiterated by VOSA below.
Now as usual, everyone will have a different interpretation of how they understand this letter, so if you want it to count as working time, then you can, but if you want to use it to show that its not working time then you can do that also. We all know how we feel about DCPC but we all have different requirements to suit our operation. one mans interpretation will always be different from another, so use the rules to suit you.
Dear Malcolm
Thank you for your email of 7 December addressed to the Department for Transport. It has been passed to me to respond as the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (VOSA) is responsible for enforcing drivers’ hours legislation. I am sorry for the delay in responding to your correspondence.
The drivers’ hours legislation states that a weekly rest period is a period during which drivers may freely dispose of their time. It is therefore the compulsory or voluntary nature of CPC training which determines whether or not it should be counted as working time.
Driver CPC training should be treated as working time if the driver is instructed to attend the training as part of their employment. If, however, a driver organises their own training and attends that training during their rest period or day off, then it is counted as rest like any other voluntary activity.
If an employer organises non-compulsory training for drivers which takes place at weekends and where attendance is unpaid, it does not count as working time.
I trust you find this information helpful.
Yours sincerely,
Sally Cranney
ROG:
dieseldave:
That information is based on someone’s inability to understand regulations, so is irrelevant in this situation.
That whole post is based on a subsection, subsections of a regulation are irrelevant unless you can satisfy the statement at the start.
How hard is that to understand??
weeto:
ROG:
dieseldave:
That information is based on someone’s inability to understand regulations,
I and many other members of this site KNOW the member who wrote that personally and KNOW what credentials he has so what credentials do you have in order to make that statement?
But it seams not just us
animal:
But it seams not just us
And commercial pilots.
ROG:
weeto:
ROG:
dieseldave:
That information is based on someone’s inability to understand regulations,
I and many other members of this site KNOW the member who wrote that personally and KNOW what credentials he has so what credentials do you have in order to make that statement?
Regarding the use of that regulation, it was first brought up by a member of VOStApo a few years ago.
So if that member isn’t the VOSA official, he isn’t the original author, he is only quoting what VOSA’s official line was on the matter at that time, which according to the the letter that has been posted on this site numerous times, has changed!
What qualifications do I need to understand regulations? There not hard to understand.
What you can’t do is quote subsections of a regulation to deem if something is legal or not, as in this case.
Grit monkey:
It’s not classed as work because it’s up to you to attend not the firm you’re working for.
Don’t you just love how complicated they like to make such a simple thing? 
weeto:
animal:
But it seams not just usAnd commercial pilots.
And just heard, train drivers.
Thanks for all replies , seems as though agency was right , and I only asked as most agencies would happily b.s you , I took a cpc course last year on tacho and hours through TAL Training in Sheffield , so I contacted the trainer and according to him it’s other work , what training do the trainers take ?
To be honest trying to get a grips on all the regulations always seems to remind me of this from Monty Python.
It’s no wonder there’s so much confusion.
But if you get it wrong this is what you can expect when you meet the Traffic Commissioner. 
muckles:
To be honest trying to get a grips on all the regulations always seems to remind me of this from Monty Python.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd8qzqfPfdM&feature=related
It’s no wonder there’s so much confusion.
But if you get it wrong this is what you can expect when you meet the Traffic Commissioner.
The lock stock clip reminds me of a company i use to work for.
tiger65:
Whirlwind:
My week finishes @4 am on a Friday and week starts @10 Pm Sunday , I was asked to attend a cpc @8 am Saturday , I declined due to insufficient weekly rest . Now according to the agency who are course organizers it does not count as working time unless you are being paid to attend. Is this correct or just another grey area for abuseDear Malcolm
Thank you for your email of 7 December addressed to the Department for Transport. It has been passed to me to respond as the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (VOSA) is responsible for enforcing drivers’ hours legislation. I am sorry for the delay in responding to your correspondence.
The drivers’ hours legislation states that a weekly rest period is a period during which drivers may freely dispose of their time. It is therefore the compulsory or voluntary nature of CPC training which determines whether or not it should be counted as working time.
Driver CPC training should be treated as working time if the driver is instructed to attend the training as part of their employment. If, however, a driver organises their own training and attends that training during their rest period or day off, then it is counted as rest like any other voluntary activity.
If an employer organises non-compulsory training for drivers which takes place at weekends and where attendance is unpaid, it does not count as working time.
I trust you find this information helpful.
Yours sincerely,
Sally Cranney
Just to clarify on the strength of this letter than I can do a 15hr nightshift (where available) do 7 hrs in the classroom during the day and then go back out on another 15hr nightshift? Oh i can just see the headlines now!
Whirlwind:
Thanks for all replies , seems as though agency was right , and I only asked as most agencies would happily b.s you , I took a cpc course last year on tacho and hours through TAL Training in Sheffield , so I contacted the trainer and according to him it’s other work , what training do the trainers take ?
TAL Training do they still use big Geoff there as he trained me on my class 1 back in 2003
Norfolknewbie:
tiger65:
Dear Malcolm
Thank you for your email of 7 December addressed to the Department for Transport. It has been passed to me to respond as the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (VOSA) is responsible for enforcing drivers’ hours legislation. I am sorry for the delay in responding to your correspondence.
The drivers’ hours legislation states that a weekly rest period is a period during which drivers may freely dispose of their time. It is therefore the compulsory or voluntary nature of CPC training which determines whether or not it should be counted as working time.
Driver CPC training should be treated as working time if the driver is instructed to attend the training as part of their employment. If, however, a driver organises their own training and attends that training during their rest period or day off, then it is counted as rest like any other voluntary activity.
If an employer organises non-compulsory training for drivers which takes place at weekends and where attendance is unpaid, it does not count as working time.
I trust you find this information helpful.
Yours sincerely,
Sally CranneyJust to clarify on the strength of this letter than I can do a 15hr nightshift (where available) do 7 hrs in the classroom during the day and then go back out on another 15hr nightshift? Oh i can just see the headlines now!
Only in the same way you could fill your time between shift doing any other personal chores you wanted or had to do? Nobody can insist you do it.
Norfolknewbie:
Whirlwind:
Thanks for all replies , seems as though agency was right , and I only asked as most agencies would happily b.s you , I took a cpc course last year on tacho and hours through TAL Training in Sheffield , so I contacted the trainer and according to him it’s other work , what training do the trainers take ?TAL Training do they still use big Geoff there as he trained me on my class 1 back in 2003
Don’t know a Geoff at Tal
Norfolknewbie:
tiger65:
Whirlwind:
My week finishes @4 am on a Friday and week starts @10 Pm Sunday , I was asked to attend a cpc @8 am Saturday , I declined due to insufficient weekly rest . Now according to the agency who are course organizers it does not count as working time unless you are being paid to attend. Is this correct or just another grey area for abuseDear Malcolm
Thank you for your email of 7 December addressed to the Department for Transport. It has been passed to me to respond as the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (VOSA) is responsible for enforcing drivers’ hours legislation. I am sorry for the delay in responding to your correspondence.
The drivers’ hours legislation states that a weekly rest period is a period during which drivers may freely dispose of their time. It is therefore the compulsory or voluntary nature of CPC training which determines whether or not it should be counted as working time.
Driver CPC training should be treated as working time if the driver is instructed to attend the training as part of their employment. If, however, a driver organises their own training and attends that training during their rest period or day off, then it is counted as rest like any other voluntary activity.
If an employer organises non-compulsory training for drivers which takes place at weekends and where attendance is unpaid, it does not count as working time.
I trust you find this information helpful.
Yours sincerely,
Sally CranneyJust to clarify on the strength of this letter than I can do a 15hr nightshift (where available) do 7 hrs in the classroom during the day and then go back out on another 15hr nightshift? Oh i can just see the headlines now!
stupid driver decided to have no sleep between 2 15 hour shifts - read all about it
Whirlwind:
Norfolknewbie:
Whirlwind:
Thanks for all replies , seems as though agency was right , and I only asked as most agencies would happily b.s you , I took a cpc course last year on tacho and hours through TAL Training in Sheffield , so I contacted the trainer and according to him it’s other work , what training do the trainers take ?TAL Training do they still use big Geoff there as he trained me on my class 1 back in 2003
Don’t know a Geoff at Tal
Used to be a driver trainer when they were based up on Maltravers Road, used to be a ginger haired bloke there too Chris McGinley or summat like that plus an oldish geezer and a younger bloke in office, can’t remember the name of the guy that owned it back then but they used to do a lot of Gefco work from Goldthorpe near Doncaster Uk and and International run and also egg factory work. That was back in the days before they bought the companies up the north east