Saaamon:
To make good use of the engine brake you have to go down the gears earlier than say in a car so the only way you can match the road and engine speed is to rev in between gears which you don’t need to do nowadays (if you use the clutch)… But of course you shouldn’t be rough with it by dropping the clutch causing the revs to fly round suddenly, just slowly out with the clutch…
You could consider just backing off the throttle earlier and just letting the speed drop off on its own, I personally wouldnt keep using high revs unless I was very heavy. The only time I tend to let the revs go into the blue is if im on a long downhill stretch.
So you’re saying that you let the engine idle during a downshift then in addition to the extra stress which you’re putting on the synchros by doing it you then also have to let the clutch in slowly to avoid overstressing the rest of the driveline as a whole.In which case you’re taking mileage off the clutch face because the only way that you can let it in slowly in that case is by using clutch slippage to avoid the transmission shock loading of using the clutch properly.Which as we all know means that it’s either in or it’s out or it’s slipping with slippage needing to be kept to an absolute minimum. All of which is why the correct way to drive is to match road and engine speeds during downshifts.
Saaamon:
To make good use of the engine brake you have to go down the gears earlier than say in a car so the only way you can match the road and engine speed is to rev in between gears which you don’t need to do nowadays (if you use the clutch)… But of course you shouldn’t be rough with it by dropping the clutch causing the revs to fly round suddenly, just slowly out with the clutch…
You could consider just backing off the throttle earlier and just letting the speed drop off on its own, I personally wouldnt keep using high revs unless I was very heavy. The only time I tend to let the revs go into the blue is if im on a long downhill stretch.
So you’re saying that you let the engine idle during a downshift then in addition to the extra stress which you’re putting on the synchros by doing it you then also have to let the clutch in slowly to avoid overstressing the rest of the driveline as a whole.In which case you’re taking mileage off the clutch face because the only way that you can let it in slowly in that case is by using clutch slippage to avoid the transmission shock loading of using the clutch properly.Which as we all know means that it’s either in or it’s out or it’s slipping with slippage needing to be kept to an absolute minimum. All of which is why the correct way to drive is to match road and engine speeds during downshifts.
OP is doing the job right he’s driving a lorry like a lorry driver not a bloody car driver (this brakes to slow gears to go bollox is for car/van/bicycle drivers), well done mate, not enough take a pride.
I use my brakes as little as possible, the vehicle was supplied with an exhaust brake for a reason, it isn’t up to much they seldom are and i’d rather have a Jacob any time but its better than bugger all so it gets used as primary decelerator.
.
And rather operate my vehicle effeciently, by driving with consideration, not over using the brakes or the clutch and gearbox(manual), and I too have my exhaust brake on auto so that it operates in conjuction with the brake pedal. Or when going down windy hill on the M62 for instance pulled round to stage 3 with gears down a half or one gog to save my service brakes. But that is being a driver and using a modern vehicle as and how the manufacturer has intended it to be used. The days off eaton and fuller have long gone, mores the pity with the twin splitter.
the vehicle was supplied with an exhaust brake for a reason, it isn’t up to much they seldom are
Saaamon:
To make good use of the engine brake you have to go down the gears earlier than say in a car so the only way you can match the road and engine speed is to rev in between gears which you don’t need to do nowadays (if you use the clutch)… But of course you shouldn’t be rough with it by dropping the clutch causing the revs to fly round suddenly, just slowly out with the clutch…
You could consider just backing off the throttle earlier and just letting the speed drop off on its own, I personally wouldnt keep using high revs unless I was very heavy. The only time I tend to let the revs go into the blue is if im on a long downhill stretch.
So you’re saying that you let the engine idle during a downshift then in addition to the extra stress which you’re putting on the synchros by doing it you then also have to let the clutch in slowly to avoid overstressing the rest of the driveline as a whole.In which case you’re taking mileage off the clutch face because the only way that you can let it in slowly in that case is by using clutch slippage to avoid the transmission shock loading of using the clutch properly.Which as we all know means that it’s either in or it’s out or it’s slipping with slippage needing to be kept to an absolute minimum All of which is why the correct way to drive is to match road and engine speeds during downshifts.
No he’s not letting the engine run at idle, its one smooth movement… Theres absolutely no way you can avoid clutch slip when changing gear (if you use the clutch) its what their designed to do, that’s why the pressure plate or now the flywheel has anti judder springs on them. In motorsport they don’t use anti judder springs and that’s why their either on or off but for full road use you need slip if you want a comfortable drive.
■■■■ it , just slam it through the box up or down , I personally like to hold it flat to the very last minute then block from top to about 3rd, listen to it scream as it slows & the revs hit the red,clutch in , brake hard , hope the roundabout is clear then floor it through on the verge of tipping over , who gives a ■■■■ if it breaks , its not yours , your not paying , now that’s professional driving with a capital P!
Saaamon:
The world has moved on since the 70’s and the way people are taught has also moved on… Blipping is not needed and a waste of fuel, you can change gear perfectly without needing to do this if you know what gear to select and your smooth with the controls, ie bringing the throttle back on whilst your letting the clutch back out etc. Also fly by wire throttles are slower to react so you cant just blip the throttle.
I agree completely eddie and that’s exactly how I’ve been taught to drive.
I wasnt taught to drive like that, but I listen to what people who ought to know tell me. If i think it sound worth while I give it go, if it works out I keep to it if not I go back my own way. Apart from blipping the throttle, old intincts die hard, even after returning to a manual after 2 years on an auto
kemaro:
[zb] it , just slam it through the box up or down , I personally like to hold it flat to the very last minute then block from top to about 3rd, listen to it scream as it slows & the revs hit the red,clutch in , brake hard , hope the roundabout is clear then floor it through on the verge of tipping over , who gives a [zb] if it breaks , its not yours , your not paying , now that’s professional driving with a capital P!
tootman318:
On any manual truck you should always match your engine revs to the gear selected, Basics really
Sorry what year is it again? Think you’ll find that you no longer need to do that on a modern synchromesh gearbox, reving in between gear changes is a waste of fuel… Do you even drive a manual lorry?
There’s nothing ‘modern’ about synchro boxes they’ve been available for years.The fact is the more of a mis match between road and engine speed the more stress the synchros are put under.That’s in addition to the extra stress that’s put through the drivetrain as a whole assuming you just force the downshift through with the engine at idle and then just let the clutch back in.
Im well aware that they’ve been around for a while now… So are you trying to say we should be reving in between downshifts then?
Well the Volvo i-shift does and that’s supposed to be a ■■■■ sight smarter than us drivers.
Go figure.
The Volvo I shift does not have synchro cones that why it has to rev between downshifts to match engine speed to gearbox speed otherwise the gears will crunch. That’s why it is lighter than a manual box.
Manual gearboxes are synchromesh so you don’t need to Match engine speed to gearbox.
Another thing to think of when engine or exhaust braking is that your brake lights do not come on so there is no warning to drivers behind you that you are slowing.
Saaamon:
To make good use of the engine brake you have to go down the gears earlier than say in a car so the only way you can match the road and engine speed is to rev in between gears which you don’t need to do nowadays (if you use the clutch)… But of course you shouldn’t be rough with it by dropping the clutch causing the revs to fly round suddenly, just slowly out with the clutch…
You could consider just backing off the throttle earlier and just letting the speed drop off on its own, I personally wouldnt keep using high revs unless I was very heavy. The only time I tend to let the revs go into the blue is if im on a long downhill stretch.
So you’re saying that you let the engine idle during a downshift then in addition to the extra stress which you’re putting on the synchros by doing it you then also have to let the clutch in slowly to avoid overstressing the rest of the driveline as a whole.In which case you’re taking mileage off the clutch face because the only way that you can let it in slowly in that case is by using clutch slippage to avoid the transmission shock loading of using the clutch properly.Which as we all know means that it’s either in or it’s out or it’s slipping with slippage needing to be kept to an absolute minimum All of which is why the correct way to drive is to match road and engine speeds during downshifts.
No he’s not letting the engine run at idle, its one smooth movement… Theres absolutely no way you can avoid clutch slip when changing gear (if you use the clutch) its what their designed to do, that’s why the pressure plate or now the flywheel has anti judder springs on them. In motorsport they don’t use anti judder springs and that’s why their either on or off but for full road use you need slip if you want a comfortable drive.
If you don’t avoid clutch slip during gearshifts you’ll simply just wear the thing out considering the amount of slip that every gearshift would add up to over the course of a year assuming that you’re not matching road and engine speeds in order to create that situation whereby,as I’ve said,it’s either in or it’s out with no slippage whatsoever.As I’ve said it’s that matching of engine and road speed which is supposed to not only provide the comfortable drive but it also prevents excessive stress on the synchros and through the driveline.Clutch slippage just creates heat and wears out the clutch and the flywheel face which effectively means throwing money away for nothing.
tootman318:
On any manual truck you should always match your engine revs to the gear selected, Basics really
Sorry what year is it again? Think you’ll find that you no longer need to do that on a modern synchromesh gearbox, reving in between gear changes is a waste of fuel… Do you even drive a manual lorry?
There’s nothing ‘modern’ about synchro boxes they’ve been available for years.The fact is the more of a mis match between road and engine speed the more stress the synchros are put under.That’s in addition to the extra stress that’s put through the drivetrain as a whole assuming you just force the downshift through with the engine at idle and then just let the clutch back in.
Im well aware that they’ve been around for a while now… So are you trying to say we should be reving in between downshifts then?
Well the Volvo i-shift does and that’s supposed to be a ■■■■ sight smarter than us drivers.
Go figure.
Another thing to think of when engine or exhaust braking is that your brake lights do not come on so there is no warning to drivers behind you that you are slowing.
They do with Scanias, which is a complete waste of time as the exhauster is only there for noise value.
Brake lights should only come on when the brakes are used IMO, brake lights should means business not to advertise the geezer in his Scania is making big lorry noises.
tootman318:
On any manual truck you should always match your engine revs to the gear selected, Basics really
Sorry what year is it again? Think you’ll find that you no longer need to do that on a modern synchromesh gearbox, reving in between gear changes is a waste of fuel… Do you even drive a manual lorry?
There’s nothing ‘modern’ about synchro boxes they’ve been available for years.The fact is the more of a mis match between road and engine speed the more stress the synchros are put under.That’s in addition to the extra stress that’s put through the drivetrain as a whole assuming you just force the downshift through with the engine at idle and then just let the clutch back in.
Im well aware that they’ve been around for a while now… So are you trying to say we should be reving in between downshifts then?
Well the Volvo i-shift does and that’s supposed to be a ■■■■ sight smarter than us drivers.
Go figure.
Another thing to think of when engine or exhaust braking is that your brake lights do not come on so there is no warning to drivers behind you that you are slowing.
They do with Scanias, which is a complete waste of time as the exhauster is only there for noise value.
Brake lights should only come on when the brakes are used IMO, brake lights should means business not to advertise the geezer in his Scania is making big lorry noises.
They only came on with the highest retarder setting on my old 164, that retarder meant business alright.
Saaamon:
To make good use of the engine brake you have to go down the gears earlier than say in a car so the only way you can match the road and engine speed is to rev in between gears which you don’t need to do nowadays (if you use the clutch)… But of course you shouldn’t be rough with it by dropping the clutch causing the revs to fly round suddenly, just slowly out with the clutch…
You could consider just backing off the throttle earlier and just letting the speed drop off on its own, I personally wouldnt keep using high revs unless I was very heavy. The only time I tend to let the revs go into the blue is if im on a long downhill stretch.
So you’re saying that you let the engine idle during a downshift then in addition to the extra stress which you’re putting on the synchros by doing it you then also have to let the clutch in slowly to avoid overstressing the rest of the driveline as a whole.In which case you’re taking mileage off the clutch face because the only way that you can let it in slowly in that case is by using clutch slippage to avoid the transmission shock loading of using the clutch properly.Which as we all know means that it’s either in or it’s out or it’s slipping with slippage needing to be kept to an absolute minimum All of which is why the correct way to drive is to match road and engine speeds during downshifts.
No he’s not letting the engine run at idle, its one smooth movement… Theres absolutely no way you can avoid clutch slip when changing gear (if you use the clutch) its what their designed to do, that’s why the pressure plate or now the flywheel has anti judder springs on them. In motorsport they don’t use anti judder springs and that’s why their either on or off but for full road use you need slip if you want a comfortable drive.
If you don’t avoid clutch slip during gearshifts you’ll simply just wear the thing out considering the amount of slip that every gearshift would add up to over the course of a year assuming that you’re not matching road and engine speeds in order to create that situation whereby,as I’ve said,it’s either in or it’s out with no slippage whatsoever.As I’ve said it’s that matching of engine and road speed which is supposed to not only provide the comfortable drive but it also prevents excessive stress on the synchros and through the driveline.Clutch slippage just creates heat and wears out the clutch and the flywheel face which effectively means throwing money away for nothing.
Can you explain the method you use to pull away then if you don’t slip the clutch?
tootman318:
On any manual truck you should always match your engine revs to the gear selected, Basics really
Sorry what year is it again? Think you’ll find that you no longer need to do that on a modern synchromesh gearbox, reving in between gear changes is a waste of fuel… Do you even drive a manual lorry?
There’s nothing ‘modern’ about synchro boxes they’ve been available for years.The fact is the more of a mis match between road and engine speed the more stress the synchros are put under.That’s in addition to the extra stress that’s put through the drivetrain as a whole assuming you just force the downshift through with the engine at idle and then just let the clutch back in.
Im well aware that they’ve been around for a while now… So are you trying to say we should be reving in between downshifts then?
Well the Volvo i-shift does and that’s supposed to be a ■■■■ sight smarter than us drivers.
Go figure.
The Volvo I shift does not have synchro cones that why it has to rev between downshifts to match engine speed to gearbox speed otherwise the gears will crunch. That’s why it is lighter than a manual box.
Manual gearboxes are synchromesh so you don’t need to Match engine speed to gearbox.
Another thing to think of when engine or exhaust braking is that your brake lights do not come on so there is no warning to drivers behind you that you are slowing.
Total ■■■■■■■■. The i shift is the old 12 speed full sync box but with modern air solenoids and software. Had mine from new 6 years ago and serviced by volvo and had all the i shift explained to me over that time. Obviously you know better and i take my hat off to you sir
Saaamon:
To make good use of the engine brake you have to go down the gears earlier than say in a car so the only way you can match the road and engine speed is to rev in between gears which you don’t need to do nowadays (if you use the clutch)… But of course you shouldn’t be rough with it by dropping the clutch causing the revs to fly round suddenly, just slowly out with the clutch…
You could consider just backing off the throttle earlier and just letting the speed drop off on its own, I personally wouldnt keep using high revs unless I was very heavy. The only time I tend to let the revs go into the blue is if im on a long downhill stretch.
So you’re saying that you let the engine idle during a downshift then in addition to the extra stress which you’re putting on the synchros by doing it you then also have to let the clutch in slowly to avoid overstressing the rest of the driveline as a whole.In which case you’re taking mileage off the clutch face because the only way that you can let it in slowly in that case is by using clutch slippage to avoid the transmission shock loading of using the clutch properly.Which as we all know means that it’s either in or it’s out or it’s slipping with slippage needing to be kept to an absolute minimum All of which is why the correct way to drive is to match road and engine speeds during downshifts.
No he’s not letting the engine run at idle, its one smooth movement… Theres absolutely no way you can avoid clutch slip when changing gear (if you use the clutch) its what their designed to do, that’s why the pressure plate or now the flywheel has anti judder springs on them. In motorsport they don’t use anti judder springs and that’s why their either on or off but for full road use you need slip if you want a comfortable drive.
If you don’t avoid clutch slip during gearshifts you’ll simply just wear the thing out considering the amount of slip that every gearshift would add up to over the course of a year assuming that you’re not matching road and engine speeds in order to create that situation whereby,as I’ve said,it’s either in or it’s out with no slippage whatsoever.As I’ve said it’s that matching of engine and road speed which is supposed to not only provide the comfortable drive but it also prevents excessive stress on the synchros and through the driveline.Clutch slippage just creates heat and wears out the clutch and the flywheel face which effectively means throwing money away for nothing.
Can you explain the method you use to pull away then if you don’t slip the clutch?
There’s a big difference between the amount of clutch slip involved in starting from standstill using a low gear and as low engine speed as possible compared to how much mis matched engine and road speeds would cause over the course of every gear change if you’re using clutch slippage to compensate for the difference.
tootman318:
On any manual truck you should always match your engine revs to the gear selected, Basics really
Sorry what year is it again? Think you’ll find that you no longer need to do that on a modern synchromesh gearbox, reving in between gear changes is a waste of fuel… Do you even drive a manual lorry?
There’s nothing ‘modern’ about synchro boxes they’ve been available for years.The fact is the more of a mis match between road and engine speed the more stress the synchros are put under.That’s in addition to the extra stress that’s put through the drivetrain as a whole assuming you just force the downshift through with the engine at idle and then just let the clutch back in.
Im well aware that they’ve been around for a while now… So are you trying to say we should be reving in between downshifts then?
Well the Volvo i-shift does and that’s supposed to be a ■■■■ sight smarter than us drivers.
Go figure.
The Volvo I shift does not have synchro cones that why it has to rev between downshifts to match engine speed to gearbox speed otherwise the gears will crunch. That’s why it is lighter than a manual box.
Manual gearboxes are synchromesh so you don’t need to Match engine speed to gearbox.
Another thing to think of when engine or exhaust braking is that your brake lights do not come on so there is no warning to drivers behind you that you are slowing.
Total ■■■■■■■■. The i shift is the old 12 speed full sync box but with modern air solenoids and software. Had mine from new 6 years ago and serviced by volvo and had all the i shift explained to me over that time. Obviously you know better and i take my hat off to you sir
Having done a very quick bit of research myself I think you’ll find that coiler is correct.
i wasn’t driving in the 70’s but i speed match on downshifts i know it isn’t needed, but i also know it’s better for the clutch and smoother, the latter being why they speed match in motorsport
you’ll be back to using the exhaust brake a bit sooner if you’re not slipping the clutch to bring the revs up. using high revs to get the most out of the exhaust brake doesn’t use more fuel than keeping it in the green etc, it uses the same amount, none!
although you you might not bring the brakes lights on - dependant on make, you wont be stopping quick enough that people won’t spot you’re slowing!
whilst you need to bear in mind that you’re only braking the drive axle, i think gasgas is being very over cautious, i used the exhaust brake in ice / snow as my indicator on how slippy it was, it was linked to the abs and worked very well on my old 4 series scania, once i decided it was slippy it was turned off.
tootman318:
On any manual truck you should always match your engine revs to the gear selected, Basics really
Sorry what year is it again? Think you’ll find that you no longer need to do that on a modern synchromesh gearbox, reving in between gear changes is a waste of fuel… Do you even drive a manual lorry?
There’s nothing ‘modern’ about synchro boxes they’ve been available for years.The fact is the more of a mis match between road and engine speed the more stress the synchros are put under.That’s in addition to the extra stress that’s put through the drivetrain as a whole assuming you just force the downshift through with the engine at idle and then just let the clutch back in.
Im well aware that they’ve been around for a while now… So are you trying to say we should be reving in between downshifts then?
Well the Volvo i-shift does and that’s supposed to be a ■■■■ sight smarter than us drivers.
tootman318:
On any manual truck you should always match your engine revs to the gear selected, Basics really
Sorry what year is it again? Think you’ll find that you no longer need to do that on a modern synchromesh gearbox, reving in between gear changes is a waste of fuel… Do you even drive a manual lorry?
There’s nothing ‘modern’ about synchro boxes they’ve been available for years.The fact is the more of a mis match between road and engine speed the more stress the synchros are put under.That’s in addition to the extra stress that’s put through the drivetrain as a whole assuming you just force the downshift through with the engine at idle and then just let the clutch back in.
Im well aware that they’ve been around for a while now… So are you trying to say we should be reving in between downshifts then?
Well the Volvo i-shift does and that’s supposed to be a ■■■■ sight smarter than us drivers.
Go figure.
The Volvo I shift does not have synchro cones that why it has to rev between downshifts to match engine speed to gearbox speed otherwise the gears will crunch. That’s why it is lighter than a manual box.
Manual gearboxes are synchromesh so you don’t need to Match engine speed to gearbox.
Another thing to think of when engine or exhaust braking is that your brake lights do not come on so there is no warning to drivers behind you that you are slowing.
Total ■■■■■■■■. The i shift is the old 12 speed full sync box but with modern air solenoids and software. Had mine from new 6 years ago and serviced by volvo and had all the i shift explained to me over that time. Obviously you know better and i take my hat off to you sir
Having done a very quick bit of research myself I think you’ll find that coiler is correct.
The i shift is a manual gearbox with optional auto or man operation as are most modern boxes. Also my brake lights come on when the exhaust brake is on. Has done from new!
All of which is why the correct way to drive is to match road and engine speeds during downshifts. 
