Age discrimination - Have you had it?

I was made redundant at the beginning of november, so signed up to a local agency (national one but franchised locally). They got me a bit of work til Christmas, but nothing since then.

Naturally, I decided that what I really wanted was full time job, so started the search, as you do.

Two weeks ago I applied for a job with a well-known multinational logistics firm, who shall be nameless for the moment.

Anyway, I sent off my CV, and a few days later I got a call from a manager. He said he had seen my CV, but I had not answered the ‘what salary do you expect?’ question. I said that I hadn’t answered that because I knew that they were a large firm and whatever salary they had in mind was bound to be competitive. (This job ISN’T driving, but is related to logistics). He said fine and told me what the salary was. I said that was well within the range I was expecting. Great, he says, I’ll be in touch in a couple of days. ‘Oh, by the way’ , he said, ‘your CV didn’t have your date of birth on it - how old are you’. I’m 58 says I. 'Oh, says said manager, ’ I’m only a few years younger, but I’m concerned about the ‘office dynamics’. Never mind, I’ll be in touch soon.

So far, so good. But a full week goes by and, surprise surprise, I have heard nothing.

So I fires off an email to their head of Human Resources in London, worded as follows:
Dear Sir,

This is to advise you that I intend to take legal action against your company for Age discrimination.

I recently applied for a position with your Company via an on-line site, which included my CV and a covering letter.

I received a call from a Mr S R at 17.50hrs on Weds 5 February 2014.

Mr R asked two questions as he could not find the answer to either on my application. He said I had not indicated a salary range on my application. I told him that I hadn’t done so because I was sure the (name was here) would be offering a competitive salary, and i was more interested in getting an interview/job that in the salary on offer. Mr Reynolds told me that salary was £18601 pa, and I indicated that this was well within the range I was looking for.

He then immediately asked how old I was, because my Date of Birth was not included in my CV. I told him that I was 58 years of age. Mr R then said that he was concerned about the ‘office dynamics’ as he was only a few years younger. He then said that he would be in touch within a couple of days. Of course, I have heard nothing since.

I completely accept that I may not be the best candidate for the job on offer, and therefore I would have expected to have not made the short list. However, and this is the basis for my claim, I clearly was of interest to Mr R, evidenced by his call to me, until he discovered that I am 58 years of age. Such discrimination is against the law.

Having sought legal advice, I am perfectly willing to go to court to press my claim.

I thought I would give you an opportunity to review your procedures, and, at the very least, ensure that no-one else goes through this kind of discrimination.

Today is the 11 February 2014. I will hold off issuing court proceedings until Monday 17 February 2014 to give you the opportunity to reply to me and address the distress which this encounter has brought upon me.

Yours faithfully

Now, on Wednesday last, I had a call from a HR person at the firm, offering me an interview last Friday at 4pm. I said that this was clearly the result of my email (which the HR person denied), but I accepted the offer anyway.

I thought long and hard, and on Friday at 11.50am I sent this:

Dear Ms B.,

After due consideration I have decided to withdraw my application for the post for which this interview has been arranged.

I do not feel that I could be given a fair interview given my complaint concerning age discrimination.

It remains my belief that I was offered this interview only after making the complaint, in order to prevent me from taking legal action.

The simple fact remains that I was clearly a candidate for interview until the manager concerned knew my age, at which point I was no longer of interest.

I have lost out on the possible opportunity to shine at interview, with some chance of showing that I would have made a useful, hardworking and loyal employee.

(Firm’s name was here) have had their reputation forever tarnished - and, of course, I will not be able to apply for any future vacancy, as there would always be some residual doubt concerning the reasons behind any rejection of that application.

I hope you will use the time allocated for the interview to offer some training to the manager concerned in how not to humiliate and embarrass potential job applicants and/or put (Firm’s name here)

Sincerely

My questions:

!) Have you ever been the victim of discrimination?

  1. Is there anything else I could have done?

Apologies for the length of the post, too.

:frowning:

I can’t remember being desriminated against, but i like the way that you declined the interview that like you say would of been a farce, nice one,

I would not have refused the interview as you could have actually got the job but we will never know now.

I was advised by the job centre bod that was sent to our company when I was made redundant just over three years ago that you need not include a date of birth on your CV but they can ask you at the interview stage.

Although it’s illegal I don’t know what can be done about it? As your letter shows, you’ve forced their hand into offering you an interview but admit yourself you may not have made it on the short list anyway.
Once a letter is written like that do you not think they’d be looking for the slightest reason to end your contract.

As far as I am concerned age discrimination is rife.

My experience was that the companies didn’t bother to answer your application even if it was done via email, at their request, because they could deny receiving it.

One job I applied for was night shunt to hub and return direct. At interview it changed to drop part of load en route and tip on return.

There were other instances where it was obvious that I was past it at 55. Bear in mind that if they ask for details on the application such as driver number or of date of passing driving tests, it doesn’t take a genius to work out that it if you passed your test over thirty years ago you must over 50.

The problem is proving discrimination.

I find it works the other way for drivers on certain jobs that require a bit more than a bum on a seat, older drivers with the right history and record, assuming still healthy enough to cope, being favoured, welcomed even.

I’m not going to speculate on the reasons, but can think of several, which thinking of where i work and have worked, certainly apply.

Age gets you both ways in this day and age when it comes to employment, too young 18 - early 20s most employers think you lack experience unless your going for a £200 a week agency role in a warehouse, and if your 55+ people think if youve been in a job for 30+ years then been through redundancy, theres not going to be much chance of teaching a old dog new tricks (so to speak in a respectful way)

I have worked in a warehouse for a good few years now (full time) where 80% of the workforce is agency, all you need to do to get in there is fill out a one sided A4 application form and pass a very basic english and maths test. The pay is just shy of £220 a week takehome for 40 hour, 5 day week and the young fresh out of school never seem to last because they have literally none or minimal positive work ethic,they act like they are still in school, and then the older 55+ we get again majority of them end up being dumped because they are too slow for the fast picking/packing enviroment, you teach them and its like they think they always know better, ive currently got a guy working with me who is 61 and while he is sound as a pound personality wise sometimes i have to bang my head off the desk or ill end up saying something, he has been told many times to pick up his speed by the team leads, to work more pro-actively, get the job done, but he would rather dither about dotting the i’s and crossing the t’s check, check and checking everything all the time and then we have to draft someone else in to help him get the job done, hes been there 3 weeks and worked as a electrician for 32 years and was then made redundant. Sad state of affairs.

m1cks:
Although it’s illegal I don’t know what can be done about it? As your letter shows, you’ve forced their hand into offering you an interview but admit yourself you may not have made it on the short list anyway.
Once a letter is written like that do you not think they’d be looking for the slightest reason to end your contract.

Yes I did think that if I went to the interview, and by a miracle got the job, I would be worried that the manager would be forever on my case until I left (or worse), which is the main reason I decided against going. Equally, I felt that just not turning up to the interview wasn’t an option either as this gives them a get out.

I did say in my original email (which was sent via a contact form on the website) that I wasn’t really expecting to make the short list. If it hadn’t been for the phone call from the manager, I would have just written the application off, along with the other 89 applications I have sent out who haven’t responded, and the 15 that have politely said ‘thanks, but no thanks’.

:frowning:

georgy:
but he would rather dither about dotting the i’s and crossing the t’s check, check and checking everything all the time and then we have to draft someone else in to help him get the job done, hes been there 3 weeks and worked as a electrician for 32 years and was then made redundant. Sad state of affairs.

And that is what I would expect from an electrician, methodical and safe, three weeks wont get that out of him :wink:

Our company seem more than happy with older drivers and are willing for them to stay on after 65, in fact we have a driver who is 73 but is not doing his cpc so come September he’s retiring. The way they see it they’ll rather have an older experienced tried and tested driver over an agency driver.

Drift:

georgy:
but he would rather dither about dotting the i’s and crossing the t’s check, check and checking everything all the time and then we have to draft someone else in to help him get the job done, hes been there 3 weeks and worked as a electrician for 32 years and was then made redundant. Sad state of affairs.

And that is what I would expect from an electrician, methodical and safe, three weeks wont get that out of him :wink:

Bloody desperate state of affairs in this country, what the hell is a skilled sparky doing picking and packing in a soul destroying warehouse.

Taking a little longer and not making mistakes is surely a better deal than having to correct errors that can upset customers.

As said it takes time to adjust.

Juddian:

Drift:

georgy:
but he would rather dither about dotting the i’s and crossing the t’s check, check and checking everything all the time and then we have to draft someone else in to help him get the job done, hes been there 3 weeks and worked as a electrician for 32 years and was then made redundant. Sad state of affairs.

And that is what I would expect from an electrician, methodical and safe, three weeks wont get that out of him :wink:

Bloody desperate state of affairs in this country, what the hell is a skilled sparky doing picking and packing in a soul destroying warehouse.

Thats why i don’t loose my rag with him, its not my job to, thats down to the team leads, i just walk away when he frustrates me dithering about, i feel sorry for him because as youve said, 32 years as a skilled electrician and hes now unpacking boxes of parts and auditing them and putting them to stock, soul destroying, not worth getting out of bed for £220 a week, but when these eastern europeans and what not will come over here and re wire your house for £5 a hour its just how life goes :frowning:

Yep, sad state of affairs, but I got my last two driving jobs because I was old… 58. Owners with their heads screwed on want someone steady that won’t bend the truck or rev it 'til the valves bounce.

I feel sorry for the op but glad he was intelligent and articulate enough to get in touch and stick it up 'em.

Christ I aint reading that lot …
Yeah my kids keep telling me i’m over the hill

I’d just prefer it if employers were allowed to advertise for what they actually wanted. If a firm wants a pretty girl to work on reception then I’d rather they were allowed to say that rather than suggesting that the job is open to all. They’re going to employ the pretty girl anyway, so why waste a fat middle-aged blokes time? :wink:

quaser:
I was made redundant at the beginning of november, so signed up to a local agency (national one but franchised locally). They got me a bit of work til Christmas, but nothing since then.

Naturally, I decided that what I really wanted was full time job, so started the search, as you do.

Two weeks ago I applied for a job with a well-known multinational logistics firm, who shall be nameless for the moment.

Anyway, I sent off my CV, and a few days later I got a call from a manager. He said he had seen my CV, but I had not answered the ‘what salary do you expect?’ question. I said that I hadn’t answered that because I knew that they were a large firm and whatever salary they had in mind was bound to be competitive. (This job ISN’T driving, but is related to logistics). He said fine and told me what the salary was. I said that was well within the range I was expecting. Great, he says, I’ll be in touch in a couple of days. ‘Oh, by the way’ , he said, ‘your CV didn’t have your date of birth on it - how old are you’. I’m 58 says I. 'Oh, says said manager, ’ I’m only a few years younger, but I’m concerned about the ‘office dynamics’. Never mind, I’ll be in touch soon.

So far, so good. But a full week goes by and, surprise surprise, I have heard nothing.

So I fires off an email to their head of Human Resources in London, worded as follows:
Dear Sir,

This is to advise you that I intend to take legal action against your company for Age discrimination.

I recently applied for a position with your Company via an on-line site, which included my CV and a covering letter.

I received a call from a Mr S R at 17.50hrs on Weds 5 February 2014.

Mr R asked two questions as he could not find the answer to either on my application. He said I had not indicated a salary range on my application. I told him that I hadn’t done so because I was sure the (name was here) would be offering a competitive salary, and i was more interested in getting an interview/job that in the salary on offer. Mr Reynolds told me that salary was £18601 pa, and I indicated that this was well within the range I was looking for.

He then immediately asked how old I was, because my Date of Birth was not included in my CV. I told him that I was 58 years of age. Mr R then said that he was concerned about the ‘office dynamics’ as he was only a few years younger. He then said that he would be in touch within a couple of days. Of course, I have heard nothing since.

I completely accept that I may not be the best candidate for the job on offer, and therefore I would have expected to have not made the short list. However, and this is the basis for my claim, I clearly was of interest to Mr R, evidenced by his call to me, until he discovered that I am 58 years of age. Such discrimination is against the law.

Having sought legal advice, I am perfectly willing to go to court to press my claim.

I thought I would give you an opportunity to review your procedures, and, at the very least, ensure that no-one else goes through this kind of discrimination.

Today is the 11 February 2014. I will hold off issuing court proceedings until Monday 17 February 2014 to give you the opportunity to reply to me and address the distress which this encounter has brought upon me.

Yours faithfully

Now, on Wednesday last, I had a call from a HR person at the firm, offering me an interview last Friday at 4pm. I said that this was clearly the result of my email (which the HR person denied), but I accepted the offer anyway.

I thought long and hard, and on Friday at 11.50am I sent this:

Dear Ms B.,

After due consideration I have decided to withdraw my application for the post for which this interview has been arranged.

I do not feel that I could be given a fair interview given my complaint concerning age discrimination.

It remains my belief that I was offered this interview only after making the complaint, in order to prevent me from taking legal action.

The simple fact remains that I was clearly a candidate for interview until the manager concerned knew my age, at which point I was no longer of interest.

I have lost out on the possible opportunity to shine at interview, with some chance of showing that I would have made a useful, hardworking and loyal employee.

(Firm’s name was here) have had their reputation forever tarnished - and, of course, I will not be able to apply for any future vacancy, as there would always be some residual doubt concerning the reasons behind any rejection of that application.

I hope you will use the time allocated for the interview to offer some training to the manager concerned in how not to humiliate and embarrass potential job applicants and/or put (Firm’s name here)

Sincerely

My questions:

!) Have you ever been the victim of discrimination?

  1. Is there anything else I could have done?

Apologies for the length of the post, too.

:frowning:

Had an interview once for an internal job, was told I did fantastic and they were surprised at how well I did, the only thing that worried them was my age (23 at the time) being younger than all of the people I’d have been supervising.

I’d have waited a further week before sending off the email, it could have been something as simple as he was away for a week on holiday/sick.

Good luck.

New lad, You are dead right. With hindsight ,I should have waited longer. You didn’t say if you were offered the job?

You’re probably right and I’m not saying that they were going to contact you, I’m just speaking from experience, where my old manager had advertised for new staff then dropped sick and caught up with it a week later.

No never got offered the job, applied again a couple of years later on nights with the same manager but his mate who had been working there for 20 years and had been a charghand for about 6 years and had ran a skeleton night shift on his own for 2 years, applied and got the job.

Wasn’t all bad though, I got his charghand job, £50 a week pay rise without the rollockings if it went pete tong.

That’s when I decided I’d leave when the depot shut and started my training for HGV, best thing I ever did and as they say the rest is history.

I’m a firm believer in positive things happen to positive people and I try (don’t always succeed) to be positive. Another door will open soon buddy I’m sure!

Looking at where you are and assuming your class 1, why don’t you try budgeens at Wellingborough, decent money although you’ll have to drive an Axor lol