The cab also has no groove in the door panel along from the door handle another sign of an early cab. Franky.
gingerfold:
cav551:
The Turners’ Mercury also has the mirror arms attached to the doors rather than the windscreen pillar. That was usually done when the pillar rotted out.That was the original position, but the aerodynamics of the cab were so poor that in wet weather the mirrors were plastered in grime and it was impossible to see anything in them. That was why they were re-located to the windscreen pillar, not that it made a lot of difference to the dirt and grime problem. Ask any Ergomatic cab driver from back in the day how often he had to clean his mirrors on a wet day.
The Turners Mercury also has the original type of direction indicators.
A modification kit was available from Leyland to convert early cabs with mirror arms located as seen on the Turners lorry to the updated mirror arm position. This consisted of two pieces of steel angle iron each with two attachment lugs which were bolted through the outer screen piller weld seams, the mirror arms were then attached to these lugs. It was quite an effective modification, and at a glance looked identical to the Sankey modified set up. Even one of the vehicles featured in AEC advertising of the period had this kit fitted. It’s interesting to note that the very last Leyland Ergomatic cabs reverted to mirror arms located on the door once again, but these were bolted to the very front edge of the door.
The very first Ergomatic cabs were intended to have the option of a roof ventilator of the ‘pop up’ style. To this end, a small square pressing with a pressed in strengthening cross was incorporated into the front centre of the roof panel to provide a flat mounting area amongst the roof ribs. It isn’t absolutely clear if this feature ever made it through to early production, but it was certainly visible on the 1964 Earls Court show prototypes, and had completely disappeared by early 1966, however the headlining indentation was still present for the ventilator right through Ergomatic cab production, including the Marathon (but some very late Leyland high datum cabs had an extremely brittle plastic headliner fitted).
The indicator lamps in the Turners photo were manufactured by PMG Thorpe (later Britax). It is a common misconception that these were a generic lamp fitted by Atkinson, Scammell etc, but in fact although they share a common lens, the rubber lamp base on these was manufactured specifically for the Ergomatic cab, and was shaped to fit the grille panel.
Prior to 1968 the lighting equipment was supplied by PMG Thorpe and CAV. Post 1968 the Leyland group standardised on auxiliary lighting provided by Flexible Lamps (Rubbolite) Ltd, but the headlamps remained Lucas / CAV.
I never realised that there was a sleeper cab option - which was presumably the only one offered with a reclining passenger seat! Did this option then include a Hydraulic tilt system? They were heavy cabs to lift. In their later days there was always the risk of the wing coming off in your hands as you tilted the cab, or even of the door falling off if you had opened it to make the lift easier.
I remember an advert similar to that being posted on here years ago, and remarking on the vibrating passenger seat. Does anyone remember seeing one of those in action?
The deluxe cabs fitted to Leyland chassis (and perhaps some of the deluxe cabs fitted to AEC’s) had this rather nice enamelled badge fitted into the redundant air wiper motor lever indentation present in the black trimmed header rail cover panel.
These cover panels had two indentations. If the cab was equipped to fit a right hand drive chassis, the left side indentation was redundant and occupied by this badge whilst the right side was pierced for the wiper control lever. Vice-versa for left hand drive…
cav551:
I never realised that there was a sleeper cab option - which was presumably the only one offered with a reclining passenger seat! Did this option then include a Hydraulic tilt system? They were heavy cabs to lift. In their later days there was always the risk of the wing coming off in your hands as you tilted the cab, or even of the door falling off if you had opened it to make the lift easier.
The later Buffalo day cabs we had at Spillers had a hydraulic tilting system.
With the standard cab some were definitely easier to tilt than others. My Mandator cab was a very easy one to tilt on my own for some reason. With the early cabs there was a service bulletin issued warning against tilting the cab with a door or doors open. It could cause the front of the cab to flex and the windscreen would then fall out!
ERF:
The deluxe cabs fitted to Leyland chassis (and perhaps some of the deluxe cabs fitted to AEC’s) had this rather nice enamelled badge fitted into the redundant air wiper motor lever indentation present in the black trimmed header rail cover panel.These cover panels had two indentations. If the cab was equipped to fit a right hand drive chassis, the left side indentation was redundant and occupied by this badge whilst the right side was pierced for the wiper control lever. Vice-versa for left hand drive…
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Do you know when the air wiper motor was replaced by an electric motor?
gingerfold:
ERF:
The deluxe cabs fitted to Leyland chassis (and perhaps some of the deluxe cabs fitted to AEC’s) had this rather nice enamelled badge fitted into the redundant air wiper motor lever indentation present in the black trimmed header rail cover panel.These cover panels had two indentations. If the cab was equipped to fit a right hand drive chassis, the left side indentation was redundant and occupied by this badge whilst the right side was pierced for the wiper control lever. Vice-versa for left hand drive…
Do you know when the air wiper motor was replaced by an electric motor?
There doesn’t seem to be a definitive cut-off point for the air wiper motor. The electric option was available fairly early on (the wiring for it was certainly incorporated into every cab harness from 1967/68), but most operators got the air system by default.
There are actually two types of air wiper system, an early one and a late one, both manufactured by Trico. The early one was quite a complex affair with special pantograph linkage to drive the passengers side wiper arm in a greater arc than the drivers (the keen eyed will note that all Ergomatic’s have a shorter wiper arm fitted to the drivers side than that fitted to the passengers side). The later design of linkage drove both arms in the same arc, but the fitting of dissimilar length arms continued right through production.
Trico supplied air wiper equipment to many manufacturers, including Atkinson and Scammell, but as usual the equipment specified by Leyland was of a higher specification than that of their competitors. The air wiper motor fitted to both early and late linkages had a locking pin which dropped into a slot when the wipers were parked, preventing the arms from ‘creeping’ down as the vehicle traveled over rough ground. This locking pin was attached to a small air cylinder, which in theory unlocked as soon as the air supply was switched on. In practice, as the grease dried out, it could stick and the wipers would remain firmly parked with the air supply fully on!.
I favour the later type linkage to recondition, but you have to watch your fingers when bench testing it…
cav551:
I never realised that there was a sleeper cab option - which was presumably the only one offered with a reclining passenger seat! Did this option then include a Hydraulic tilt system? They were heavy cabs to lift. In their later days there was always the risk of the wing coming off in your hands as you tilted the cab, or even of the door falling off if you had opened it to make the lift easier.
Here are some examples of the sleeper cab option.
First, some RHD AECs:
And finally, some LHD Leyland Ergo-sleepers: a two-pedal Beaver and what is probably a Hippo. Robert
gingerfold:
cav551:
I never realised that there was a sleeper cab option - which was presumably the only one offered with a reclining passenger seat! Did this option then include a Hydraulic tilt system? They were heavy cabs to lift. In their later days there was always the risk of the wing coming off in your hands as you tilted the cab, or even of the door falling off if you had opened it to make the lift easier.The later Buffalo day cabs we had at Spillers had a hydraulic tilting system.
With the standard cab some were definitely easier to tilt than others. My Mandator cab was a very easy one to tilt on my own for some reason. With the early cabs there was a service bulletin issued warning against tilting the cab with a door or doors open. It could cause the front of the cab to flex and the windscreen would then fall out!
The later high datum cabs with hydraulic tilt had a substantial mounting bracket welded to the underside of the passengers side floor pan. It was quite possible for the untrained to pump away on the handle with the rear locking pins in, pushing the floor pan up into the cab!.
The earlier cabs used a torsion bar spring arrangement (similar to that used for the front suspension of a Morris Minor!). The tension of this was adjustable by means of a spline, and many were set up incorrectly once interfered with in service. The layout is illustrated below.
The screen falling out of early cabs was due to the screen rubber seal being too soft to support the weight of the glass when fully tilted. It was found that with the doors closed the screen had a greater likelihood of staying in place, but the very very minimal distortion of the pillar experienced with the door (or doors) open made it worse. The cure was a much revised rubber seal, but this had the effect of making Ergomatic windscreens notoriously difficult to fit, a situation that remained for the production life of the cab and beyond. The screen aperture is actually very deep compared with other cabs, and the harder rubber seal with additional ‘fingers’ moulded into it makes seating the screen fully back into the aperture very difficult, even with copious amounts of soap added!.
ERF-NGC-European:
Here are some examples of the sleeper cab option…
Good photos there Robert.
I’m sure I’ve seen a colour photo of that dead Mandator V8 with the high sleeper cab abandoned in Istanbul, it might even be here on TN somewhere.
It sat in company with several other failed lorries which had been robbed for spares, as I recall.
I believe they were all still there into the 1990’s.
I quite liked the air operated wipers; you could adjust the speed to suit the amount of rain or spray on the windscreen. When we moved from Turner’s old Fordham depot to the new one I was rooting about in the workshop stores and found several Trico air wiper motor reconditioning kits. There were also one or two other AEC bits and pieces, including a V8 head gasket set, unused…but sorry ERF, it was snapped up years ago at an AEC Rally.
I was once told that you can’t time those air motors to operate in sync. Is that bs or what?
gingerfold:
I quite liked the air operated wipers; you could adjust the speed to suit the amount of rain or spray on the windscreen. When we moved from Turner’s old Fordham depot to the new one I was rooting about in the workshop stores and found several Trico air wiper motor reconditioning kits. There were also one or two other AEC bits and pieces, including a V8 head gasket set, unused…but sorry ERF, it was snapped up years ago at an AEC Rally.
Don’t know about AEC wipers the only one I drove was electric. I do know about Foden S80 wipers though .Rain, turn on wipers. Wiiiiiiippppppppppeee, eventually reaches return point, then time stands still, driving blind. Then without any warning wipe wipe wipe wipe in 1.3 secs then nice n steady with the odd break for a breather every 1/2 min or so. Then stop, you get the idea, the most stressful part of the job. The fitter " they are all the same! Don’t you think I’ve got nothing better to do? "
coomsey:
gingerfold:
I quite liked the air operated wipers; you could adjust the speed to suit the amount of rain or spray on the windscreen. When we moved from Turner’s old Fordham depot to the new one I was rooting about in the workshop stores and found several Trico air wiper motor reconditioning kits. There were also one or two other AEC bits and pieces, including a V8 head gasket set, unused…but sorry ERF, it was snapped up years ago at an AEC Rally.Don’t know about AEC wipers the only one I drove was electric. I do know about Foden S80 wipers though .Rain, turn on wipers. Wiiiiiiippppppppppeee, eventually reaches return point, then time stands still, driving blind. Then without any warning wipe wipe wipe wipe in 1.3 secs then nice n steady with the odd break for a breather every 1/2 min or so. Then stop, you get the idea, the most stressful part of the job. The fitter " they are all the same! Don’t you think I’ve got nothing better to do? "
Thankfully the Ergomatic air wiper motor is a completely different design to the one fitted by Foden on the S80 and S90. The Ergo one is actually pretty good, the only thing to watch is that the restrictor is fitted in the air inlet. Without it the wipers go absolutely ballistic!.