Express Pete:
They are about to issue the drivers (they employ 7 full time and numerous part time/casuals) with new contracts setting out their terms and conditions of employment.
One T & C that has caught my eye states that "Where a driver has been negligent and caused damage to the company vehicles he will have the ‘insurance excess’ deducted from his wages on an ongoing basis until the amount has been paid back to the company.’
What I need to know is this legal?
Legal if you sign that contract as you then agree to it
Legal if you sign that contract as you then agree to it
What if that term within the contract is deemed to be an ‘UNFAIR’ term & condition Rog?
P.S. I know about this sort of stuff . . .
“Where a driver has been negligent and caused damage to the company vehicles he will have the ‘insurance excess’ deducted from his wages on an ongoing basis until the amount has been paid back to the company”.
This is automatically an unfair term & condition & cannot possibly form a part of a legally binding contract.
IMO, you should ignore such a contract & not sign & return it untill pressed to. Don’t forget that ‘verbal’ contracts exist in law also.
If your (ex) employer ever wishes to rely on such a term in your contract of employment, then fight it. You will win, but not neccessarily keep your job . . . the choice is yours.
There are two basic scenarios that happen when damage is caused to a vehicle, something hits you, or you hit something.
If something hits you or causes you to hit it, then that would be covered by the insurance and the excess would be claimed from the third party, so no deduction from the driver’s wages.
If you hit something and it’s your fault, the company has to pay the excess, in my mind, the driver should pay, there are no excuses for hitting things, especially stationary objects like posts and things, sure lorries have blind spots, but in my 25yrs of driving lorries I’ve never been teleported next to a post, it was there when I drove in, so I should notice it and remember it’s there when I start manouvering, if I can’t see it, then I should get out and look, the same applies to other vehicles, they’re not in your blind spot all the time, so you shoul see them as they enter the blind spot, if you don’t see them leave the blind spot, they’re still there
If you think it’s acceptable to smash company vehicles up, like in the case of jumping the pin that Harry mentioned, well, you shouldn’t be driving lorries for a living
Now we know why the jobs gone to pot, I would have though better of you NNM, people who never have accidents haven’t done much, and I know you have, companies have insurance, end of, they take the profit so they take the risk.
kr79:
My firm have tried to implement this I have the contract in my lorry it’s been here unsigned for months.
My firm has got new management and has gone from a good firm that you had to be recommended to get on to a meat in the seat operation and there’s only five of us left on the old pay scheme where you can earn good money and they are trying to squeeze us out.
But they are reaping what they sow as they have had 38 blameworthy claims so far this year plus numerous small claims that have been settleed privately and the lorrys nearly all have dents and scrapes on them. **So I can see why a firm would want to do it.**I know accidents happen and we all make mistakes but we had one driver who had three in a week that takes the ■■■■
Would a bonus scheme not be better?
Reward instead of punish - if they’re too bad, serious accident or regular accidents, send 'em down the road.
The way I see this, they are attempting to change your Terms and Conditions, something they cannot force you to agree to. If you refuse to sign, then things stay as they are.
Remember a contract doesn’t have to be written. It can be agreed verbally, and also be “implied” by things having been done the same way for x amount of time - I forget how long, but it’s a hell of a lot less than 14 months! So whatever way you look at it, they are legally bound to honour your existing contract - ie. what has been happening up until now - unless you agree to the change. As I said above, no signature = no change, and they are not allowed to force the issue.
However, these things are all very well and good on paper, but in practice they could “coincidentally” make your life very difficult in many, many subtle ways (runs, times, blah blah blah, I’m sure you can work it out for yourself) and that would be virtually impossible to prove at a tribunal or in a court of law. So in your shoes I would a) refuse to sign and b) start looking elsewhere, although I wouldn’t give notice until I had a job to go to.
Ps. I hope that makes some kind of sense, I’m tired and my ability to write plain English seems to have gone to bed before the rest of me!
There are two basic scenarios that happen when damage is caused to a vehicle, something hits you, or you hit something.
If something hits you or causes you to hit it, then that would be covered by the insurance and the excess would be claimed from the third party, so no deduction from the driver’s wages.
If you hit something and it’s your fault, the company has to pay the excess, in my mind, the driver should pay, there are no excuses for hitting things, especially stationary objects like posts and things, sure lorries have blind spots, but in my 25yrs of driving lorries I’ve never been teleported next to a post, it was there when I drove in, so I should notice it and remember it’s there when I start manouvering, if I can’t see it, then I should get out and look, the same applies to other vehicles, they’re not in your blind spot all the time, so you shoul see them as they enter the blind spot, if you don’t see them leave the blind spot, they’re still there
If you think it’s acceptable to smash company vehicles up, like in the case of jumping the pin that Harry mentioned, well, you shouldn’t be driving lorries for a living
So how would I be expected to see a manhole covered by 2inches of muck, stone etc? I do ask on arrival but half the time the site staff don’t know themselves…
kr79:
My firm have tried to implement this I have the contract in my lorry it’s been here unsigned for months.
My firm has got new management and has gone from a good firm that you had to be recommended to get on to a meat in the seat operation and there’s only five of us left on the old pay scheme where you can earn good money and they are trying to squeeze us out.
But they are reaping what they sow as they have had 38 blameworthy claims so far this year plus numerous small claims that have been settleed privately and the lorrys nearly all have dents and scrapes on them. **So I can see why a firm would want to do it.**I know accidents happen and we all make mistakes but we had one driver who had three in a week that takes the ■■■■
Would a bonus scheme not be better?
Reward instead of punish - if they’re too bad, serious accident or regular accidents, send 'em down the road.
I see your point about a bonus scheme. Except I hate the idea of bonuses for things you should do as a matter of course.
Our boss has started putting drivers through ‘procedure’ for blameworthy accidents. I’m not sure I approve of that either but everyone is being a whole lot more careful…
