Well Waaatts at least now you will get the general attitude from the average truck driver. Not really so good like a lot of their driving.
One of the posters constantly blames car drivers for not knowing about turning circles of lorries and blames car drivers for not knowing the stopping distance of a truck.
Now you can see what your dealing with.
I think you should go out in a truck for a day but just make sure it’s one of the good drivers and they seem increasingly hard to spot these days.
Just be aware though because they will all tell you they are good drivers but unfortunately in most cases that is only their point of view.
As for lorry drivers having a degree? Well I think that is fairly obvious if you check out some of their posts.
Javiatrix:
Congratulations guys; this is why the office treat you like subhumansWhat might be a “rubbish questionnaire” to you might only appear that way because its only a small part of this guy’s research; perhaps he’s missing some specific information somewhere and this is the best way of filling that hole? You just don’t know.
Totally agree, I’m quite disappointed by the response this lad has got 
albion:
[I’m no fan of logistics degrees either, wouldn’t employ someone as a TM without several years driving experience but that survey will be a tiny bit of the guys work.
Got to say albion, that I have worked for 2 planners that were ex drivers, I’m sorry, though they weren’t the worst planners I’ve had, they were certainly no where near the top of the league. Totally wrong attitude 
Conor:
Waaatts:
I don’t have the finance (being a student and all) to travel and carry out interviews with drivers, past that, would you take time out of your day to talk to some lad about crashes?You don’t need money, just ask a truck driver to take you on a run one day. I can guarantee with 100% certainty that from the truck cab you’ll see exactly where the problem lies and it will take you just one trip to recognise where the problem is.
So he’ll spend a day getting one point of view, that’s if any company allows him to ride as a passenger.
Conor:
Waaatts:
Just thought you’d be less inclined to have a potentially long chat/interview with a student… (which going by the above looks like a reasonable assumption…)A bit of a condescending remark there. Some of us may be truck drivers but that doesn’t mean we’re not educated and that we’ve not been students ourselves. A few years ago I attended a red brick university and did a BEng (Hons) degree in Electronics Engineering for example.
Why is he being condescending?
There has been plenty of threads over the years on here of drivers complaining about being disturbed by various people while sat on break at service areas.
You are a well educated truck driver, it was an Apprentice trained City and Guilds 381 qualified mechanic as an answer to a post last week.
eddie snax:
Javiatrix:
Congratulations guys; this is why the office treat you like subhumansWhat might be a “rubbish questionnaire” to you might only appear that way because its only a small part of this guy’s research; perhaps he’s missing some specific information somewhere and this is the best way of filling that hole? You just don’t know.
Totally agree, I’m quite disappointed by the response this lad has got
albion:
[I’m no fan of logistics degrees either, wouldn’t employ someone as a TM without several years driving experience but that survey will be a tiny bit of the guys work.Got to say albion, that I have worked for 2 planners that were ex drivers, I’m sorry, though they weren’t the worst planners I’ve had, they were certainly no where near the top of the league. Totally wrong attitude
And probably one of the best I ever worked for had never driven anything bigger than a Landrover Discovery.
Waaatts, I’ve sent you PM bud. Hope all goes well
Done you questionnaire too
muckles:
eddie snax:
Javiatrix:
Congratulations guys; this is why the office treat you like subhumansWhat might be a “rubbish questionnaire” to you might only appear that way because its only a small part of this guy’s research; perhaps he’s missing some specific information somewhere and this is the best way of filling that hole? You just don’t know.
Totally agree, I’m quite disappointed by the response this lad has got
albion:
[I’m no fan of logistics degrees either, wouldn’t employ someone as a TM without several years driving experience but that survey will be a tiny bit of the guys work.Got to say albion, that I have worked for 2 planners that were ex drivers, I’m sorry, though they weren’t the worst planners I’ve had, they were certainly no where near the top of the league. Totally wrong attitude
And probably one of the best I ever worked for had never driven anything bigger than a Landrover Discovery.
Thought it were a Rangie Vogue
Have you asked Ronnie Pickering?
eddie snax:
muckles:
eddie snax:
Javiatrix:
Congratulations guys; this is why the office treat you like subhumansWhat might be a “rubbish questionnaire” to you might only appear that way because its only a small part of this guy’s research; perhaps he’s missing some specific information somewhere and this is the best way of filling that hole? You just don’t know.
Totally agree, I’m quite disappointed by the response this lad has got
albion:
[I’m no fan of logistics degrees either, wouldn’t employ someone as a TM without several years driving experience but that survey will be a tiny bit of the guys work.Got to say albion, that I have worked for 2 planners that were ex drivers, I’m sorry, though they weren’t the worst planners I’ve had, they were certainly no where near the top of the league. Totally wrong attitude
And probably one of the best I ever worked for had never driven anything bigger than a Landrover Discovery.
Thought it were a Rangie Vogue
You could be right, I didn’t take a lot of notice to busy. 
Waaatts:
m1cks:
Waaatts:
You’d get a whole lot of better answers if you were to visit a motorway service area and just ask. No cost or additional travel costs needed.
You get to meet a cross section from all over the country and instead of closed questions, you may be surprised at what extra questions you hadn’t considered just from a chat.
It wouldn’t be that difficult to find a driver willing to talk.I had thought about this, but my concern was that drives would flat out not be interested in talking to someone about this sort of thing, but if it’s something guys would be happy to address in an interview I’d be more than happy to do it.
Just thought you’d be less inclined to have a potentially long chat/interview with a student… (which going by the above looks like a reasonable assumption…)
Why not conduct some interviews using electronic means? Webcams, online chat, forum posts, etc, a bit like what’s happening here. Then you can get the dynamism of a dialog, without having to stand out in the rain.
Also, regards your questionnaire, it perhaps needs a bit more structure and specificity. Rather than asking about the cause of accidents at large, it might be better to ask the driver to think of an accident they have witnessed, or a common type of accident they are aware of, and have them say what kind of accident they have in mind, and then ask what factors they think has caused it.
Otherwise, your answers might take on the form of “I think bad drivers cause accidents”, or might show that there is no consistent cause of accidents in general, or will cause the respondents to make hidden assumptions or pick a favourite issue out of the air which does not address the generality of the question.
For example, on another thread we’re talking about bridge height markings. There’s a lot to say about bridge strikes, which will be different from what drivers have to say about animal strikes, or cyclist strikes, or wheels falling off, or drivers nodding off at the wheel,
albion1971:
Well Waaatts at least now you will get the general attitude from the average truck driver. Not really so good like a lot of their driving.
One of the posters constantly blames car drivers for not knowing about turning circles of lorries and blames car drivers for not knowing the stopping distance of a truck.
Now you can see what your dealing with.
I think you should go out in a truck for a day but just make sure it’s one of the good drivers and they seem increasingly hard to spot these days.
Just be aware though because they will all tell you they are good drivers but unfortunately in most cases that is only their point of view.
As for lorry drivers having a degree? Well I think that is fairly obvious if you check out some of their posts.
I think you’re missing my point. Every lorry driver I speak to complains about car drivers pulling stupid manoeuvres causing them to take avoiding action. It’s so commonplace that its almost expected and the obvious reasoning behind their actions is lack of understanding, I’m sure if they understood the limitations of an LGV they would think twice before they do it. Ever since passing my LGV test I’ve thought that there should be a lorry driving portion of the car driving test to raise awareness.
Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not absolving lorry drivers of all blame here. I’ve seen plenty of poor driving from my brother (and sister) truckers, but IME the general standard of car driving is very poor.
Without surveys, transport cannot move forward, so give this guy a break, assist in his quest to maybe try and improve our lot, instead of moaning to each other in an RDC, about the work load, how many hours or 15 hour days you have to work in a week.
This industry is crying for change, not enough parking, especially safe parking where our vehicles and contents can be protected including the curtains and fuel tanks. The French have it right, because they fight for their conditions, we do nothing, but just moan about it, we in the uk are averaging around 80 hours a week, and not getting enough for those hours…a lot of drivers cannot park anywhere other than a layby, cos their employers are not forced to pay for decent parking, and that includes many of the foreigners on our roads, who are not reimbursed for their expenditure, its a europe wide problem and needs to be solved.
all of the above. spot an mate 
I just filled in the questionnaire.
These questions seems to be a bit one sided, and demand simple answers.
However, this is certainly not a simple matter.
To avoid accidents everybody has to take responsability. When I browse this site and other fora, what strikes me is that one group will always blame every other group, except themselves.
Lorrydrivers put the blame on cyclists, car, busdrivers etc, while cyclist blame car and lorrydrivers, pedestrians, road condition and layout and even the wheather
There are a few studies, that in case of HGV involved accidents, 85 % is caused by human error. Of those accidents caused by human error, 75 % is NOT caused by the HGV driver, but by other motorists, cyclists etc…
Accidents involving HGV are however far more mortal than other accidents
ec.europa.eu/transport/roadsafet … ummary.pdf.
or
ibsr.be/frontend/files/userfiles … nderen.pdf ( in dutch)
We have to realise every road user is responsable for a safer traffic, and maybe, a more difficult drivers licence is needed,restricted in time, with car drivers a few compulsory hours to accompany a lorry driver, a lorrydriver to do a cyclists test, …
Do we, as professional drivers have to take our responsability ?
Sometimes you should ask yourself to evaluate your own driving, and altough there are driving gods among us (you all know the whiter than white brigade), us mortals make mistakes and we should realise that.
Do not blame others, we all make mistakes enough by ourselves.
Oh, and by the way, the english aren’t to bad on road safety, yes you have dense traffic, there is room for improvement on parking, mentality, pay and so on but, again every country has its own problems. The grass is not always greener… 
Captain Caveman 76:
albion1971:
Well Waaatts at least now you will get the general attitude from the average truck driver. Not really so good like a lot of their driving.
One of the posters constantly blames car drivers for not knowing about turning circles of lorries and blames car drivers for not knowing the stopping distance of a truck.
Now you can see what your dealing with.
I think you should go out in a truck for a day but just make sure it’s one of the good drivers and they seem increasingly hard to spot these days.
Just be aware though because they will all tell you they are good drivers but unfortunately in most cases that is only their point of view.
As for lorry drivers having a degree? Well I think that is fairly obvious if you check out some of their posts.I think you’re missing my point. Every lorry driver I speak to complains about car drivers pulling stupid manoeuvres causing them to take avoiding action. It’s so commonplace that its almost expected and the obvious reasoning behind their actions is lack of understanding, I’m sure if they understood the limitations of an LGV they would think twice before they do it. Ever since passing my LGV test I’ve thought that there should be a lorry driving portion of the car driving test to raise awareness.
Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not absolving lorry drivers of all blame here. I’ve seen plenty of poor driving from my brother (and sister) truckers, but IME the general standard of car driving is very poor.
I take your point that car drivers standards are poor but how can you expect an average car driver to understand anything about lorries.
As professional drivers we need to adapt to their poor driving standards and stop blaming them especially as there as so many bad lorry drivers.
Try asking a few car drivers what they think of truck drivers and I can assure you it will not be good.
Both groups need to improve and stop blaming each other.
Attitudes need to change as well.
bald:
I just filled in the questionnaire.
These questions seems to be a bit one sided, and demand simple answers.However, this is certainly not a simple matter.
To avoid accidents everybody has to take responsability. When I browse this site and other fora, what strikes me is that one group will always blame every other group, except themselves.
Lorrydrivers put the blame on cyclists, car, busdrivers etc, while cyclist blame car and lorrydrivers, pedestrians, road condition and layout and even the wheatherThere are a few studies, that in case of HGV involved accidents, 85 % is caused by human error. Of those accidents caused by human error, 75 % is NOT caused by the HGV driver, but by other motorists, cyclists etc…
Accidents involving HGV are however far more mortal than other accidentsec.europa.eu/transport/roadsafet … ummary.pdf.
or
ibsr.be/frontend/files/userfiles … nderen.pdf ( in dutch)We have to realise every road user is responsable for a safer traffic, and maybe, a more difficult drivers licence is needed,restricted in time, with car drivers a few compulsory hours to accompany a lorry driver, a lorrydriver to do a cyclists test, …
Do we, as professional drivers have to take our responsability ?
Sometimes you should ask yourself to evaluate your own driving, and altough there are driving gods among us (you all know the whiter than white brigade), us mortals make mistakes and we should realise that.
Do not blame others, we all make mistakes enough by ourselves.Oh, and by the way, the english aren’t to bad on road safety, yes you have dense traffic, there is room for improvement on parking, mentality, pay and so on but, again every country has its own problems. The grass is not always greener…
Hi everyone,
Reading through all of the comments it’s clear that the survey is stirring mixed emotions. The reason for the very narrow question fields is probably twofold - a lack of understanding on my part, and a way of being able to quantify responses.
However, as this seems to have gone down like a lead balloon… 
And as proposed by Rjan, could we perhaps change this in to an open forum for discussing what you guys really believe is constituting the bad rep drivers are getting? And maybe reach some of the bigger points for accidents involving LGVs (fast learner ) and also look at the ones that are perhaps considered as not an issue broadly, but you guys feel are significant?
The research I am doing is trying to take the blame off of our drivers and trying to find solutions that are probably massively obvious to you guys, but missed by management and industry ‘specialists’.
Again, I would love to reply to everyone but I think it would hinder rather than help. I really appreciate everyone’s views up to this point, and thank everyone who has done the survey (however pointless it may seem) thus far.
Thanks again!
Waaatts:
However, as this seems to have gone down like a lead balloon…
Careful now! 
You’ll never get far up the management ladder if you admit your mistakes and start listening to the workforce.
albion1971:
Captain Caveman 76:
albion1971:
Well Waaatts at least now you will get the general attitude from the average truck driver. Not really so good like a lot of their driving.
One of the posters constantly blames car drivers for not knowing about turning circles of lorries and blames car drivers for not knowing the stopping distance of a truck.
Now you can see what your dealing with.
I think you should go out in a truck for a day but just make sure it’s one of the good drivers and they seem increasingly hard to spot these days.
Just be aware though because they will all tell you they are good drivers but unfortunately in most cases that is only their point of view.
As for lorry drivers having a degree? Well I think that is fairly obvious if you check out some of their posts.I think you’re missing my point. Every lorry driver I speak to complains about car drivers pulling stupid manoeuvres causing them to take avoiding action. It’s so commonplace that its almost expected and the obvious reasoning behind their actions is lack of understanding, I’m sure if they understood the limitations of an LGV they would think twice before they do it. Ever since passing my LGV test I’ve thought that there should be a lorry driving portion of the car driving test to raise awareness.
Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not absolving lorry drivers of all blame here. I’ve seen plenty of poor driving from my brother (and sister) truckers, but IME the general standard of car driving is very poor.I take your point that car drivers standards are poor but how can you expect an average car driver to understand anything about lorries.
As professional drivers we need to adapt to their poor driving standards and stop blaming them especially as there as so many bad lorry drivers.
Try asking a few car drivers what they think of truck drivers and I can assure you it will not be good.
Both groups need to improve and stop blaming each other.
Attitudes need to change as well.
But when its day in, day out, you’re encountering moronic car drivers it gets tiresome. I’ve only been driving a year which is nothing compared to some users on here but even in that short time I’ve come to reliease that there is no helping car drivers. I agree with Captain Caveman that there should be some sort of large vehicle awareness section as part of the standard car test. Teach them when they first start and it should stick.
In an ideal world that would be great but in reality it could never work.
All drivers cannot remember what they are taught so how would car drivers be able to deal with all the extra lessons about trucks.
Learning to drive is expensive enough already.
Who is going to pay the extra costs?
It simply would never work in more ways than one.
As I said we as professional drivers should make allowances for bad car drivers. It’s part of the job.
Also if you want that for car drivers what are we going to do about all the bad lorry drivers?
What’s good for one is good for another.
What is this obsession you have Alby with ’ bad lorry drivers ’ ?
Considering the thousands and thousands of tonnes of goods delivered/collected every day, the accident rates of LGV drivers (who were not to blame), must be fractional.
Why do you come on here and continually do truck drivers down?
albion1971:
In an ideal world that would be great but in reality it could never work.
All drivers cannot remember what they are taught so how would car drivers be able to deal with all the extra lessons about trucks.
Agreed and you’d also get the car drivers who because they’ve been in a truck feel they are even more superior than they do now and therefore have a right to comment about truck drivers than they already do.
albion1971:
Learning to drive is expensive enough already.
Who is going to pay the extra costs?
But you’re all for extra training, so who’d pay for that?
albion1971:
It simply would never work in more ways than one.
As I said we as professional drivers should make allowances for bad car drivers. It’s part of the job.
Also if you want that for car drivers what are we going to do about all the bad lorry drivers?
What’s good for one is good for another.
It’s up to all drivers to avoid incidents, even if the cause of the that incident isn’t their fault.
Most accidents don’t have one cause they are a series of events and if one of those events was taken out of the chain, such as one driver realising that there was a situation developing and changing their actions then the incident is avoided.
None of us is perfect, apparently to err is human, so we must drive to “forgive” those that err against us and hope that they forgive our err’s, 
Ok it doesn’t quite work but I’m not used to writing sermons.