A 'drivers' take on british lorries!

[tyneside]

newmercman:
I’ve never used the clutch with a Fuller, but that ZF box was evil, I had it in a 2300 too, that [zb]stard used to get stuck in 5th and you had to really yank it out, going up the box it was just about possible, but going down I never managed to do it, clutch or no clutch, so I just used to coast to a stop and start again, as it was only a little 2300 it was a bit lethargic on hills, so I quite often ground to halt half way up which was a bit embarassing at times

I don’t mind admitting that the ZF box got the better of me, I had used Fullers, David Browns and even a Foden 12spd, so I think it was more down to the sadistical nature of Ze Germans at ZF rather than my abilities, that’s my story & I’m sticking to it

The Spicer 10spd as fitted to the Roadtrain was also known to be a bit tricky, but I never used one, so can’t say for sure

We had run a fleet of Bedford, Dodge and Leyland/Albions tippers and flats since the early fifties and in 1975 we decided to try DAF. We bought a new F2000 six wheel flat for livestock, mainly running between Tyneside and Manchester and some local work. ZF splitter Gearbox was a right ■■■■■. Alright on a long run but round the doors up and down the box was hard work. Other problems from new were constant cracked alternator brackets, various other electrical problems which we were told was caused by an earth lead not connected properly under the dash and broken piston rings after 6 months. After about 3 years the w/screen wiper assembly dropped out of the front of the cab due to rot.
Got rid of the thing after that.
The Spicer splitter as fitted to the R/train and Constructor (was it 10 or 12 speed ■■) was Ok but going from low to high in top gear was always a crunch

[kr79]

Constructr was 10 speed 5speed splitter although the later ones had a four over four.

[sammyopisite]

The 232 , 240 and 280 MANs I drove were column change and a 6 speed ZF with splitter constant mesh box there were very close positions but I had driven an Atki with the ZF box and that was the same very weak spring and gear positions very close but personally I liked it and found it a very nice box to use and after a Scammell gate change it was a big improvement and I would say learning to change gear by ear was a big advantage as it became second nature and you did not think about it.
I drove " B,C,& D " reg. roadtrains for Dodds and they were all the 5 speed spicer with splitter and very nice to drive.
cheers Johnnie

[saviem]

Hello all, Johnnie, you beat me to it! Those early 16.232 MANs were lovely lorries to drive, same gearbox set up as the 240, 280, and 340 Saviems, once you got over the shock of the column change. It was an original Renault ,(pre the amalgamation of Renault, Latil, and Somua to form Saviem), design, and a very good one. The hardest thing to get over to a “newcomer”, was to treat it gently, the gate, although in the vertical plane, was typically ZF, being quite small. Up and forward for first, back, (keeping your hand pressure upwards), for second, let the lever resume its “home” central position, for third and fourth, then gentle downward pressure for fifth and sixth. Reverse straight down over an indent, and neutral lay in the centre of the “home” position, between third and fourth. The splitter switch was mounted a thumb span away, on the face of the lever. Much harder to write about, than actually drive! Gave very fast changes, particularly when behind the 16litre 340 V8, and the big advantage was cross cab access, and the sheer “living room” space, that the lack of bonnet hump, and central gear lever gave. The same linkage could handle the synchro loads of the Saviem 350 10 speed box, although the change was slower than the constant mesh ZF680 box. All those ZF boxes had tight gates, I know it took me a day or two to get used to the one on my Viewline, (but not as long as getting used to that little steering wheel). Some manufacturers installations turned superb gearboxes into a nightmare with convoluted linkages, round the houses gear positions, and vague selections, (I well remember what a worn cable linked 4000 seriesFoden was like to drive, not a patch of an S39, air change 12speed, progress)? But I suppose we eventually get used to anything! Spicers, now I am probably at odds with one or two people, you see I liked them, and they were a light and rugged box, but they were not as forgiving as a Fuller. I ran some Roadtrains with them, and I had no real problems, but I have always believed in preventative maintenance, its cheaper than curative! Im away to the Bolinger, and something tasty, (and to remember gearboxes, how sad)!! Cheerio for now.

[sammyopisite]

Hi Saviem , once again I am in agreement with you and your post set me thinking that you were better having a very light touch on the gear sticks with a ZF gear box but after a Scammell gate change you soon learnt not to hold the gear stick only put pressure on it or if you mistimed a shift it certainly rattled your fingers. I was taught to use an open hand and just guide the gear stick into position and this was far easier with the constant mesh boxes than a synchro-mesh box which required more physical effort to change gear. I also thought that the spicer box was underrated as I was on nights when I drove them so had to take which wagon was in the yard and I could not fault them but it is each to their own and we all had our favourites.
cheers Johnnie

P S I hope you quenched your thirst with a Bolinger

[newmercman]

Saviem, you make an interesting point about maintenance, my 2300 that got stuck in 5th obviously never saw much love and the 2800 was old when I got it, the stick was a bit loose to say the least, maybe those factors helped me to dislike that gearbox, although I’ve driven (and still do) many Fuller boxes and they’re a lot more forgiving

Oh and speaking of bad instalations of gearboxes, the Berliet TR305 I drove had a 10spd roadranger and that had a round the houses shift pattern, it was also very sloppy, compare it to the Ford that shared its cab and the Big 'Enry was in another league, it has to be one of the best installations ever, almost as good as my current drive and on that the stick comes straight out of the top of the box

[carryfast]

newmercman:
the Big 'Enry was in another league, it has to be one of the best installations ever, almost as good as my current drive and on that the stick comes straight out of the top of the box

You can’t beat the combination of a good constant mesh box and a coventional installation.These were one of my all time favourites using a 9 speed Fuller.

youtube.com/watch?v=NVlrG4h4Wks

[harry]

Good luck with the Bolli!!

[carryfast]

kr79:

ramone:

kr79:
Just been reading the excellent astran book again and it states Michael woodman submitted a spec for a drawbar combination to all the British truck builders when asain transport started taking off and not one replied and that’s how they ended up with there long association with scania.
Also scammel offered him a crusader demonstrator with a day cab. I’m not Alan Sugar but how can you take someone seriously about promoting there product with such a blatant flaw when you are looking at the driver been away for weeks on end.

Didnt Astran use a Mammoth Major mkv on 1 of their first trips They obviously weren`t 1 of those “backward hauliers” which were the cause of the demise and death of British lorry manufacturing

There first truck was a guy but they bought a mk5 mammoth major soon after with a sleeper cab. I think it was a c reg which would be the last of them before the ergo models but after that they went to scania because no British truck builder would offer them a sutiable truck for there work.
On another note look at the scammell crusader why was it not offered with a tilt cab most new trucks would have been by then.

I could have thought of something a lot better than a Scania.

youtube.com/watch?v=DYW6xK3k … re=related 4.24-5.22

[ramone]

Looks like he killed another thread

[riverstick]

sammyopisite:
The 232 , 240 and 280 MANs I drove were column change and a 6 speed ZF with splitter constant mesh box there were very close positions but I had driven an Atki with the ZF box and that was the same very weak spring and gear positions very close but personally I liked it and found it a very nice box to use and after a Scammell gate change it was a big improvement and I would say learning to change gear by ear was a big advantage as it became second nature and you did not think about it.
I drove " B,C,& D " reg. roadtrains for Dodds and they were all the 5 speed spicer with splitter and very nice to drive.
cheers Johnnie

I remeber driving a V10 MAN from 1977 vintage which had a 13 speed Fuller 'box with a column change…fantastic installation with a brilliant gearchange

[andrew_morrison]

Boy’s boy’s boy’s when will you all learn lorries are lorries know matter what your preffrances & we all got em!! they like marmite & i presume you all love em cuz your on lorrynet

[robert1952]

Some interesting observations on the ZF constant-mesh 12-speed (6 plus splitters) 'box on this thread. In the early '80s I drove a number (ten or so) Mercedes NG 1626 artics with this 'box. It was a while before I realised that they weren’t as good as the Fullers because they weren’t Fullers! Robert

[jimbo47]

kr79:
Yeah all the mans I have drive have been fuller twinsplitter or zf synchro but my dad had a a reg 240 tipper that had a back to front box il strange thing.
I remember the deutz having a six speed with a splitter but I was only sitting in the passenger seat drinking Ribena back then lol.

aye ,i drove a maggie wae the 6 speed and splitter (the splitter was electric and the switch underneath was the weak spot ).funny thing though its sister in the fleet was a 6 speed with a 2speed axle.