700 UK jobs went to Poland

[wheel_nut]

Rob K:
But what are your private rent costs vs. mortgage at, say, 5% on comparable size & location property? The problem we have in many areas of the UK is that repayment wise, it’s roughly the same monthly cost to rent privately as it is to buy, and in some cases renting is more expensive. The obvious answer there is to buy as there’s nothing more to pay when your 25 years [typically] is up other than day-to-day maintenance costs. With renting you never stop paying as the properly is never yours plus you always have the worry of being turfed out with a mere 1 months notice if the landlord suddenly decides he doesn’t want to let anymore.

I used to think that buying was better than renting, although as Frans said, a German or a Dutch national will rarely own his own home. In France properties are cheaper because land prices are less. However I now think renting is probably the best way.

Let us look at our allotted three score year and ten, the first score is spent living with parents leaving 50 years to pay for a home. The rent for these 50 years would cost you between £180,000 to £240,000.

A house in England will cost an average of £232,628 according to the Land Registry in December 2010. On top of this you have exterior decorating, repair costs, and buildings insurance. Interest on the loan adds to that and eats up a whole lot of capital for a deposit.

I need a new boiler and windows, an email to the landlord has got things underway, at no extra cost to me. I think if you have an assured shorthold tenancy the landlord needs to give you 2 months notice, maybe need to read my agreement.

It works for me and I am the sole tenant.

Although we do not want to go back to the days of the workhouse or tied cottages, there are some schemes that worked well. Who mentioned Terry’s of York? They built workers cottages on Clementhorpe and Bishopthorpe Road, as did Cadbury, and Lever Brothers who built the model villages for the workers in Bournville and Port Sunlight respectively. A return to subsidised housing would be an answer with a little more protection.

[rob_k]

Wheel Nut:

Rob K:
But what are your private rent costs vs. mortgage at, say, 5% on comparable size & location property? The problem we have in many areas of the UK is that repayment wise, it’s roughly the same monthly cost to rent privately as it is to buy, and in some cases renting is more expensive. The obvious answer there is to buy as there’s nothing more to pay when your 25 years [typically] is up other than day-to-day maintenance costs. With renting you never stop paying as the properly is never yours plus you always have the worry of being turfed out with a mere 1 months notice if the landlord suddenly decides he doesn’t want to let anymore.

I used to think that buying was better than renting, although as Frans said, a German or a Dutch national will rarely own his own home. In France properties are cheaper because land prices are less. However I now think renting is probably the best way.

Let us look at our allotted three score year and ten, the first score is spent living with parents leaving 50 years to pay for a home. The rent for these 50 years would cost you between £180,000 to £240,000.
A house in England will cost an average of £232,628 according to the Land Registry in December 2010. On top of this you have exterior decorating, repair costs, and buildings insurance. Interest on the loan adds to that and eats up a whole lot of capital for a deposit.

I need a new boiler and windows, an email to the landlord has got things underway, at no extra cost to me. I think if you have an assured shorthold tenancy the landlord needs to give you 2 months notice, maybe need to read my agreement.

It works for me and I am the sole tenant.

Although we do not want to go back to the days of the workhouse or tied cottages, there are some schemes that worked well. Who mentioned Terry’s of York? They built workers cottages on Clementhorpe and Bishopthorpe Road, as did Cadbury, and Lever Brothers who built the model villages for the workers in Bournville and Port Sunlight respectively. A return to subsidised housing would be an answer with a little more protection.

How the hell do you work that out? WADR you’re talking out of your arse Malc!

Find me a £232k property being let out for £420 per month and I’ll retract that.

Example Leeds - Meanwood 4 bed property, £235k sale tag, being let out for £300 per week. 300x52 weeks x50 years = £780,000.

£235k on 25 year mortgage at 6% (not an unreasonable short-to-medium term expectation once inflation takes hold) =total repayment of £454,000 (£349 per week) including interest and of course assuming the interest rate stays the same. If even two-thirds of the cost was not incentive enough, you also have a £235k asset to turn into cash at any time you choose as well.

Even factoring in the inevitable new roof, couple of boilers and other repairs, how can you NOT think that buying is better?

edit: typos

[harry_monk]

caledoniandream:
But I think there are a lot of people who lose their house now in the recesion, who wished they never had bothered.
It’s not yours till the last penny is paid, however you twist or turn it, if things go wrong your house where many people left a lot for is worth much less than market value.

Yes, it’s amazing how many English people say “I own a house” when what they really mean is “I have a debt”.

Many people will be waking up over the next year or two and saying “Holy Crap, did I really agree to pay a quarter of a million pounds for this and think my job would be secure for the next 25 years?”

[wheel_nut]

Both on a corner plot, both 3 bedroom. We are not living in the financial metropolis of West Yorkshire though

£235,000

£475 pcm including dishwasher, cooker and washing machine.

So sorry Rob. It cost a bit more in Rent than I said, but my own place is unique and only costs me £400 pcm

Beggars cant be choosers, but I am happy with renting, as I said, it suits me.

[44_tonne_ton]

Rob K:

44 Tonne Ton:
And if you’re a healthy, white, hetero-■■■■■■ male, born and bred in this country you’re at the back of the queue for a council house. If there’s any left that is.

Who would anyone want one anyway? They’re all in places akin to Beirut and the rents reflect that.

I was trying to illustrate the lack of REAL choice when it comes to housing in this country. For example, I work for Tossco in store at the going rate. Salary approximately £15,000 = £300pw maybe £260pw or £1130pm after tax.

One bed council flat, if you can get one, rents for about £90 pw or £390 pm plus council tax @ £100 pm total £490 pm or £113pw. Leaves about £150 pw and you’ve only put the roof over your head.

One bed private rent around £750pm plus council tax £100pm total £850pm or £196pw. Leaves about £64pw after paying for accommodation.

Buy a one bed flat @ £50,000 mortgage with repayments of £280pm approximately (interest only but you’ll be lucky to find that now) council tax £100pm, insurance @ £50pm and service charges of £50 total of £480pm or £110pw leaving £160pw.

The first option can be done if you’re prepared to play the system and plot up in a grotty hostel which you’ll share with a few other people many of those will have issues ranging from alchohol or drug abuse to just simply being the dregs of humanity. Not a lot of fun.

The second “choice” speaks for itself really. You can’t afford it. Well you might if you get another job but the problem with that is Tosscos’ like their staff to be “flexible” so you’ll find yourself starting and finishing at different times and your rest days being changed at the whim of your manager so fitting in extra work is tricky and Tosscos aren’t keen on staff working O/T unless it’s unpaid.

The third choice doesn’t paint the complete picture as you’ll have the costs of maintaining the property but that’s the least of your worries as thanks to the bankers you’ll struggle to get a mortgage anyway!

I’ve saved the best till last! You can rent a room all inclusive for maybe £90. You can find some nice ones. The hard bit can be finding house/flat mates you can share with and get on well with. And it’s not forever is it? You’ll buy somewhere soon, won’t you? Or maybe rent from the council? It’s only a 30 year waiting list with Westminster council. Just bide your time…

All in all, not much of a choice is it when you’re at the bottom of the pile?

I’ve used a Tossco worker as an example but in the past week I found a job in Erith for a class 2 driver on nights paying…£300pw.

[rob_k]

Wheel Nut:
Both on a corner plot, both 3 bedroom. We are not living in the financial metropolis of West Yorkshire though

£235,000

£475 pcm including dishwasher, cooker and washing machine.

So sorry Rob. It cost a bit more in Rent than I said, but my own place is unique and only costs me £400 pcm

Beggars cant be choosers, but I am happy with renting, as I said, it suits me.

My point wasn’t anything to do with who can afford what and nor was there anthing in my reply to even suggest that . I am fully aware of the problems that people have with trying to buy a house.

Getting back to the point those 2 houses you’ve shown are far from comparable. One is a detached for a start, which instantly increases the price by £50k at least, even more with the garage. I bet that if the first one was up for rent it wouldn’t be far off double that of the other place. Pics only tell a small piece of the story anyway as the 2nd one you’ve linked to could be in some dodgy area hence the price.

Anyway the real point of all this stuff is that whichever way you dress it up, 95% of the time buying will always work out cheaper in the long run than renting for the “average house buyer”. It becomes even more of a no-brainer if you can buy outright or at least put down a substantial deposit. But this is all common sense stuff that I’m surprised you didn’t know tbh Malc - “I used to think that buying was better than renting” .

[rob_k]

@ 44t, yes I know all about it. My point was that you said it like people were missing out on something special by not being able to get a council house. You didn’t state why you thought they should have one but I see now the context in which you wrote and I agree, although I still wouldn’t want one.

As much as one can blame the various governments for all “this”, a lot of the blame lay squarely at the feet of the average Joe who refuse - or are too stupid - to take responsibility for themselves. Instead of keeping up with the Jones’s by purchasing all the latest gadgets, partying every night of the week and having 10 holidays per year all funded on the plastic, they should’ve looked at the bigger picture and planned for the future by putting some of that moolah aside then they wouldn’t be trapped in the position of a NMW job with a bedsit full of iPhones and the walls covered with a load of 120" LCD TVs… and nothing in their bank accounts.

[44_tonne_ton]

Rob, just about everyone I know has used their house like a personal bank, constantly borrowing against it for holidays, cars for them and their kids etc. you name it. Over borrowed to begin with as well many of them. I’m with you on the ownership front although I don’t encourage people to think of their home as an investment but as shelter from the elements. I’m afraid many have bought into the idea that you might actually get something for nothing.

[rob_k]

44 Tonne Ton:
Rob, just about everyone I know has used their house like a personal bank, constantly borrowing against it for holidays, cars for them and their kids etc. you name it. Over borrowed to begin with as well many of them. I’m with you on the ownership front although I don’t encourage people to think of their home as an investment but as shelter from the elements. I’m afraid many have bought into the idea that you might actually get something for nothing.

Yes… I could go on but I would need to turn down a political avenue and I’m not doing that here because a certain you-know-who will take over the thread. It’s nothing that hasn’t been said before anyway.

[orys]

toby1234abc:
Not knocking Poland here,they are hard grafters,and helped us out in the war as pilots with the RAF,and Orys may be tuning in.

I am tuning in, indeed, but I do not find no information on Poland in this thread which needs to be corrected