6 points for phone use

The-Snowman:

peterm:
A car can cause just as much mayhem as an hgv when things go wrong.

Not really. 44 tonnes will always make a much bigger mess of another vehicle in an accident than a car will.
But I know what you mean and I agree with you. It should be the same penalty regardless of mode of transport.
Ive also long since said that if you are caught using your mobie behind the wheel of an hgv you lose your entitlment. Well the same should apply to cars and vans. If your caught, you get resticted to driving less than 1100cc.

Yeah, what I meant was that car swerves, cuts in, stops suddenly, causing hgv to swerve and driver to lose control, hitting other vehicles, or car bounces off the hgv and crosses over, etc. I just think that penalties should be across the board for everything. I can’t see why a one class of driver should get off lighter than another driver.

Next… Let’s get rid of SAT NAVS! :smiling_imp:

I have cars next to me on the M25… They are mesmerized by the little sat nav in the corner of their dashboard, where they think it isn’t distracting them.

I’ve just pulled up behind them in the second lane, am overtaking in lane 3 (of 4) whilst they potter along at 70kmh instead of 70mph in lane 2.

They are not looking ahead. They are gazing at the pretty bright light in the corner of their dashboard.

Their being miles away is evident when I pass them, and they jump, having not even realized I was there. Tooting them is not necessary - they might as well be halfway through a spliff the size of a king edward. :unamused:

It’s crappy old pre-21st century cars even older than the old bangers I drive, too…
I’m covering the brake when these guys (invariably olive complexioned, on their own…) pass me - in case they swerve in front of me, and brake hard with their brake lights not working… It’s happened to me 3 times over the past 5 years I’ve been on agency. “Brake Testing” I think everyone else calls it. Bloody hate it being done to me nonetheless though… :imp:

The BIGGEST distraction to drivers hasn’t even been mentioned yet.!!! :open_mouth: Yep we talking about scantily clad members of the opposite ■■■. :sunglasses:

You all know the scenario where it’s ‘stuff the road safety’ as drivers turn their heads through ninety degrees to get a lingering look, then stare furtively in their mirrors before the object of their desire becomes a dot in the distance. I think that as regards road safety, the Muslims have the right idea in dressing their women in burka’s so they don’t become a distraction for other road users. In that respect they are to be applauded and other faiths should be more conscious of contributing to road safety. I’m sure men should dress more conservatively too, so the ‘frilly curtain’ type of trucker is also not distracted.

Ban satnavs Winseer? You’re having a laugh aren’t you? How would myself and others ever get out of the yard? :wink:

I haven’t read all this thread so if I repeat something that’s been put forward already, sorry :wink:

My take on the hands free debate, is that it may well distract you from the job at hand, but I cannot see how it would be more distracting than shouting at politicians an the radio. or as mentioned talking to a passenger. I’ve heard it said that a passenger will see a situation arising on the road, at the same time as the driver, and allow the driver to concentrate, I don’t buy this, 1 children certainly don’t shut up, yet dont the Mother in Law either, may be because she’s a non driver or because she just doesn’t shut up. 2 the driver should be competent enough to be dealing with the situation already, regardless of potential distractions, I think it used to be called road craft. 3 Many drivers, and I’m talking all road users, just aren’t competent enough to use the roads, even if they were in a car with no phone passengers sat nav radio or any thing else to distract them.

I don’t talk to many people on the phone (Bluetooth earpiece) when driving, a couple of fellow drivers, the Mrs and brief calls to the office, mainly. But when talking to My driving mates or the Mrs, I’ve noticed that they pick up hidden or overt signals (hang a mo) or the like, and they know that I’m requiring all my focus, and will fall silent, I do the same for to them. I don’t think studies can factor this sort of thing in, and that’s why people just don’t believe them :unamused:

Hallelujah, Eddie Snax as one might expect sums it up nicely.

They’ll hound you for that fine example of good common sense and absolute refusal of the one size fits all (lowest common denominator) ethos mate.

Juddian:
Hallelujah, Eddie Snax as one might expect sums it up nicely.

They’ll hound you for that fine example of good common sense and absolute refusal of the one size fits all (lowest common denominator) ethos mate.

I do not think there are many who are saying one size fits all because we all know there are good drivers and bad drivers but when it comes to talking on a phone it is a little different.
Are you saying you are quite capable of driving and talking on the phone(hands free) and it makes no difference to your concentration or driving?
Of course some drivers can cope better than others but is anyone good enough to say they are 100% safe when talking on a phone whilst driving. It only needs to go wrong once.
Unfortunately nobody is tested or monitored for this but I have seen it many times where a driver says it does not effect his driving yet as a passenger I can see it clearly does.
Therefore as this will never be monitored surely for road safety it is better to ban hands free as well (as is going to happen.)
How many calls are that important that they cannot wait till the next layby etc?

albion1971:

Juddian:
Hallelujah, Eddie Snax as one might expect sums it up nicely.

They’ll hound you for that fine example of good common sense and absolute refusal of the one size fits all (lowest common denominator) ethos mate.

I do not think there are many who are saying one size fits all because we all know there are good drivers and bad drivers but when it comes to talking on a phone it is a little different.
Are you saying you are quite capable of driving and talking on the phone(hands free) and it makes no difference to your concentration or driving?
Of course some drivers can cope better than others but is anyone good enough to say they are 100% safe when talking on a phone whilst driving. It only needs to go wrong once.
Unfortunately nobody is tested or monitored for this but I have seen it many times where a driver says it does not effect his driving yet as a passenger I can see it clearly does.
Therefore as this will never be monitored surely for road safety it is better to ban hands free as well (as is going to happen.)
How many calls are that important that they cannot wait till the next layby etc?

The problem these days isn’t having your concentration side tracked by talking on a phone (should have added, ‘‘for lorry drivers’’ here this does not apply to those who should not be lorry drivers), its trying to stay concentrated and not going into a trance because there’s nothing to do or see for mile after mile.

The modern lorry basically now only requires steering input, be honest here a well trained chimp could drive a lorry up the motorway, there is no skill nor work nor input required to drive the lorry, so often enough it only having a chat on the phone that can keep the driver awake, we see enough times the results from early morning carnage when the bored out his mind driver has simply fallen asleep or zoned out cos there’s literally nothing to do, tiddling along at whole 83k’s on a quiet motorway or dual its not exactly surprising they’re drifting off, i’m quite sure if the regular night lads especially didn’t ring each other up and take the ■■■■ out of each other over a chat there would be far more sleep induced accidents.

You can only check the mirrors test standard so many times in a minute, what else does the unfortunate (and i do mean that because there is no input, skill satisfaction or pleasure in driving a modern lorry) driver have to do other than sit there and vegetate.
Whatever their downsides you didn’t let your concentration lapse when you bowled along at 70+ (keeping a sharp eye out for cars behind pacing you) and had to operate a lorry gearbox and use engine/exhaust/other braking with the vastly more driver input/satisfaction required/gained when driving proper lorries not so many years go.
Yes that’ll draw comments about the old days/■■■■■ etc from the usual suspects, but we didn’t have the myriad of lorry accidents involving vehicles travelling in the same direction with barely 10 mph speed differential, that we do now when lorries required more input than just pressing go and steering.

Dumbing further down will only shift the problem further along, it won’t fix it.
There is also the argument that the easier the job gets the more people unsuited to it are attracted to it, hence dumb it down and monitor it even more, vicious circle?

albion1971:
Therefore as this will never be monitored surely for road safety it is better to ban hands free as well (as is going to happen.)
How many calls are that important that they cannot wait till the next layby etc?

I would say a fully laden truck having to pull into a layby (if they can actually get into one of course) then having to pull back out onto a busy road is probably waaay more dangerous than someone answering the phone. It would just go the way it is with car drivers at the moment that don’t have hands free kits, where they just pull up anywhere to answer their call, be it on the approach to a roundabout, brow of a hill etc. Then you still have the problem if you trapped in dense traffic where you can’t pull up anywhere.

I personally think business leaders would be up in arms if they tried to ban hands free communications, as it would potentially cost them millions in lost business opportunities. It not just truck drivers that need open communications for their jobs. The world is all about money nowadays. :unamused:

Juddian you seem to bring this up a lot about new lorries and old lorries. I do agree old lorries took a lot more thought and effort but you have to remember a new lorry still carries a lot of weight,is a big responsibility and is not always on a motorway. They need to be manoeuvred in tight spaces in city centres and on other types of road the same as old lorried did. The driver should still use 100% concentration all the time and does not need any distractions like talking on a phone.
There have been many innocent people killed and injured by drivers using phones and it is impossible to say if anyone is capable of talking safely on a phone all of the time and that is why it will become illegal sooner rather than later.

Regarding auto boxes maybe you need look at it from a different point of view. While I agree a driver has far more control using a manual gearbox there are some advantages from auto boxes.
They relieve the driver of the thought of changing gear which as I sure you know was a big problem with some drivers especially when changing vehicles all the time. They give the driver more time to concentrate on what is going on around the truck but certainly do not make it ok to be distracted by talking on the phone. Do not know about you but how many times have you seen a driver miss a gear and look down at the gearstick instead of where he was going.

LIBERTY_GUY:

albion1971:
Therefore as this will never be monitored surely for road safety it is better to ban hands free as well (as is going to happen.)
How many calls are that important that they cannot wait till the next layby etc?

I would say a fully laden truck having to pull into a layby (if they can actually get into one of course) then having to pull back out onto a busy road is probably waaay more dangerous than someone answering the phone. It would just go the way it is with car drivers at the moment that don’t have hands free kits, where they just pull up anywhere to answer their call, be it on the approach to a roundabout, brow of a hill etc. Then you still have the problem if you trapped in dense traffic where you can’t pull up anywhere.

I personally think business leaders would be up in arms if they tried to ban hands free communications, as it would potentially cost them millions in lost business opportunities. It not just truck drivers that need open communications for their jobs. The world is all about money nowadays. :unamused:

I am afraid safety will come first and quite rightly so. They will make it illegal but of course you will still get the ones that think they are ok and safe and they will flout the law only to be hit by harsher penalties.
Unfortunately there are no easy solutions for things like this but drivers bring most things on themselves most of the time.

albion1971:
I am afraid safety will come first and quite rightly so. They will make it illegal but of course you will still get the ones that think they are ok and safe and they will flout the law only to be hit by harsher penalties.
Unfortunately there are no easy solutions for things like this but drivers bring most things on themselves most of the time.

The haulage industry itself must realise that they are a contributing factor to road safety. Calling drivers on cabphones when the tracker clearly shows them moving at 50mph isn’t particularly clever, neither is telling them they have to phone customers whilst on their way to them, nor indeed giving the customers the drivers phone number and expecting them to answer without delay. Whilst I don’t drive for outfits like that, there are many drivers that do, who simply don’t have the option not to answer the phone.

Personally I don’t think hands free devices will ever be outlawed as such, as business people have a legitimate reason to stay permanently in touch with customers and staff. If folks were truly that concerned about safety, cars would have been fitted with speed limiters years ago. It’s never going to happen :confused:

Dunno mate, i reckon it’ll be outlawed for HGV’s first, its obvious they are going to make the penalties harsher for vocational drivers, so the next step could well be banning.

Juddian:
Dunno mate, i reckon it’ll be outlawed for HGV’s first, its obvious they are going to make the penalties harsher for vocational drivers, so the next step could well be banning.

If they did it would be the end of agency driving for most of us. If agencies don’t get through to confirm your next days/weeks work, they just ring the next name on the list. Clients too need to know promptly if they have a driver for the next day. It is just the way it is.

LIBERTY_GUY:

Juddian:
Dunno mate, i reckon it’ll be outlawed for HGV’s first, its obvious they are going to make the penalties harsher for vocational drivers, so the next step could well be banning.

If they did it would be the end of agency driving for most of us. If agencies don’t get through to confirm your next days/weeks work, they just ring the next name on the list. Clients too need to know promptly if they have a driver for the next day. It is just the way it is.

Not saying i want it or agree with it, but i do agree with Albion in that its coming, i have no doubt.

Be more accidents i’m sure when that happens in the wee small hours when bored out of their skulls night lads are fighting the nodding dog.

For ‘hands free’ I would like to see it entered into the highway code as a “Should Not”, this would nicely place it into the same sort of grey area as “Do not reverse from a side road into a main road” this would not mean it was entirely illegal, but it would mean that if you were involved in an accident whilst doing so then you would very likely be held to blame. So as other have said above ‘hands free’ is not the greatest danger, but it still increases risk, therefore it should only be done sparingly on quiet roads whilst taking the greatest of care.

Bluey Circles:
For ‘hands free’ I would like to see it entered into the highway code as a “Should Not”, this would nicely place it into the same sort of grey area as “Do not reverse from a side road into a main road” this would not mean it was entirely illegal, but it would mean that if you were involved in an accident whilst doing so then you would very likely be held to blame. So as other have said above ‘hands free’ is not the greatest danger, but it still increases risk, therefore it should only be done sparingly on quiet roads whilst taking the greatest of care.

You pretty much will be held to blame if you have a crash while using a hand free phone. It will come under the Due/ care and attention or worse depending on the severity of the situation.

muckles:

Bluey Circles:
For ‘hands free’ I would like to see it entered into the highway code as a “Should Not”, this would nicely place it into the same sort of grey area as “Do not reverse from a side road into a main road” this would not mean it was entirely illegal, but it would mean that if you were involved in an accident whilst doing so then you would very likely be held to blame. So as other have said above ‘hands free’ is not the greatest danger, but it still increases risk, therefore it should only be done sparingly on quiet roads whilst taking the greatest of care.

You pretty much will be held to blame if you have a crash while using a hand free phone. It will come under the Due/ care and attention or worse depending on the severity of the situation.

Indeed, and as per the link I posted earlier in the thread, there was a driver jailed after killing someone whilst using a hands free phone. But I still feel its inclusion in the highway code as a “Should Not” would make it easier to prosecute and would be a warning shot over the bows to those who are using them excessively. At the moment I would guess most people think it is a fully acceptable thing to do that carries no risks.

The truth is, no Government is brave enough to do the one thing that would really improve road safety, and congestion at the stroke of a pen. Time limited driving licenses, instead of your ordinary full license lasting a lifetime, make it elapse after 10 years. During year 9, you resit a driving test(lessons are optional), if/when you pass, it would be forward dated to the expiry date of your license. If you fail you get 2 more attempts to resit the test before it expires, on a 3rd failure your license is withdrawn with immediate effect, as you have proved incompetent 3 times within a year, you can then use your now provisional license to become a learner at your own discretion.

If you hold a vocational license, then you would renew that in the same way and that would cover all other presently held catogaries. No more rubbish DCPC, proper meaningful retraining. If this was the case I for one would take refresher lessons prior to test, to smooth of any bad habits, and be fully mugged up on the latest rules and legislation :wink:

But as I said, no government will be brave enough to take away cars from the great unwashed, no matter how incompetent they are to sit behind the wheel of a car :unamused: :unamused:

Juddian:

LIBERTY_GUY:

Juddian:
Dunno mate, i reckon it’ll be outlawed for HGV’s first, its obvious they are going to make the penalties harsher for vocational drivers, so the next step could well be banning.

If they did it would be the end of agency driving for most of us. If agencies don’t get through to confirm your next days/weeks work, they just ring the next name on the list. Clients too need to know promptly if they have a driver for the next day. It is just the way it is.

Not saying i want it or agree with it, but i do agree with Albion in that its coming, i have no doubt.

Be more accidents i’m sure when that happens in the wee small hours when bored out of their skulls night lads are fighting the nodding dog.

They can hardly Police the the ban on using hand held devices, so how will they Police any ban on Hands Free phones?
If they pull over people in vehicles who look like they’re talking to themselves, I’m never going to get anywhere as I spend a lot of time talking to myself or singing (well singing in the loosest sense of the term. :smiley: )

Be more accidents i’m sure when that happens in the wee small hours when bored out of their skulls night lads are fighting the nodding dog.

Sorry but talking on the phone is not the way to combat tiredness. There are far better ways as I am sure you are aware.