DonutUK:
There may be room for handling depots, but do the actual paths for the trains exist?
By this i mean is there the capacity to more freight trains onto the routes? Most of the main line infrastructure is running very close to capacity in terms of the number of trains that can be run.
OK, i’ll say it in plainer terms We’re using less trains on the existing network than we ever did , so yes there is plenty of room on the tracks. The main line infrastructure is not running close to capacity.
I’d like to know where you get that information from?
Having worked on the railway for the last 9 yrs i can certainly say that there are now more passenger trains running than 5 yrs ago…passenger journeys have climbed steadily year upon year, which has meant operators have introduced new services and expanded existing ones. They have also increased service frequency in certain areas.
Having driven trains for 7 of those 9 years, i have also experienced the congestion first hand…both around London/East Anglia and in the Midlands/South West. God forbid a train gets delayed and miss its booked path…it will never recover the time because there isn’t sufficient capacity for it to do so, maybe apart from some local routes but even then it is not guaranteed.
Even the current freight trains, running in their booked slots, end up delaying other services because of the tightness of scheduling in most areas.
I don’t say this as a casual observer of the railway, i say this as someone who has driven on the rail network, then spent nearly 3 yrs in management, of which part of my job was the investigation and attribution of delays to our services!
The only real option would be to run the trains almost exclusively through the night…something which Network Rail have always been reluctant to allow wholesale because of the impact it will have on the maintenance regimes.
Don’t forget, we are trying to run a 21st century railway on largely 19/20th century infrastructure…
It’s actually a 19th century mode of transport which road transport should have been allowed to wipe out in the 20th century but in this country that would be unthinkable to the rail transport supporters which is why trains are running around on tax free fuel in competition with private cars and a road transport industry which has it’s arms tied behind it’s back by the government to allow rail transport to live on long past it’s sell by date.
DonutUK:
I’d like to know where you get that information from?
Having worked on the railway for the last 9 yrs i can certainly say that there are now more passenger trains running than 5 yrs ago…passenger journeys have climbed steadily year upon year, which has meant operators have introduced new services and expanded existing ones. They have also increased service frequency in certain areas.
Having driven trains for 7 of those 9 years, i have also experienced the congestion first hand…both around London/East Anglia and in the Midlands/South West. God forbid a train gets delayed and miss its booked path…it will never recover the time because there isn’t sufficient capacity for it to do so, maybe apart from some local routes but even then it is not guaranteed.
Even the current freight trains, running in their booked slots, end up delaying other services because of the tightness of scheduling in most areas.
I don’t say this as a casual observer of the railway, i say this as someone who has driven on the rail network, then spent nearly 3 yrs in management, of which part of my job was the investigation and attribution of delays to our services!
The only real option would be to run the trains almost exclusively through the night…something which Network Rail have always been reluctant to allow wholesale because of the impact it will have on the maintenance regimes.
Don’t forget, we are trying to run a 21st century railway on largely 19/20th century infrastructure…
Its just anecdotal. I live next to Edge Hill sidings which i’m told ,not sure if its true, that it was once the largest Rail shunting depot in Europe. Trains delivered (i can remember some of them) goods to the major stations here and off shoots to the markets. No goods trains go near it now i think. There’s some figures here for 1950 compared to 1998 jrtr.net/jrtr27/pdf/f16_smi.pdf
I suppose its hard to break it down further into actual journeys and passengers/freight per journey. But yes it shows less usage now. And i think most freight did run through the night then ? They may be congested in some places now, thats not always a measure of their productivity though, as the figures show. Its symptomatic of having to run a franchise and fulfill it, regardless !!
well Freightliner have moved out of Millbrook in Southampton although they still have offices there and the main railhead in the docks and to be honest if anyone has been to Freightliner Birmingham or Leeds when work every now and then picks up you wonder HOW they will cope■■?..IF this is to be believed which i personally cant!!!..whenever i see a Freightliner train its maybe 15 long if that and got loads of spaces between with no boxes■■?
960 a WEEK!!!..dont think so.
Its not just signal blocks that limit size of trains Freightliner have just started introducing class 70 locos brand new built by GE in the states that can pull longer trains than the current class 66
‘… a 19th century mode of transport which road transport should have been allowed to wipe out in the 20th century …’
Dr Beeching heavily pruned the rail network in the 1960’s, but despite the UK adopting ‘interstate socialism’ by heavily embracing road transport ideology from the USA during that era, rail still seems to display some benefits as it limps-on in UK.
Perhaps the cheekiest irony is that European nations, ie, the real ‘United States of Europe’ (?) - seem to use theirs effectively - whilst the UK funds that broadly unelected quango by £40m/day with our own rail network in a right royal mess …and we invented the damned things!
bringbakbiffa:
Its not just signal blocks that limit size of trains Freightliner have just started introducing class 70 locos brand new built by GE in the states that can pull longer trains than the current class 66
Well its not difficult for something to pull more than a 66 - thats probably why DB Schneker/EWS havent quite got rid of their class 60s yet
Anyway the works at Southampton arent for more containers to be carried, its for taller container to be carried…
‘… a 19th century mode of transport which road transport should have been allowed to wipe out in the 20th century …’
Dr Beeching heavily pruned the rail network in the 1960’s, but despite the UK adopting ‘interstate socialism’ by heavily embracing road transport ideology from the USA during that era, rail still seems to display some benefits as it limps-on in UK.
Perhaps the cheekiest irony is that European nations, ie, the real ‘United States of Europe’ (?) - seem to use theirs effectively - whilst the UK funds that broadly unelected quango by £40m/day with our own rail network in a right royal mess …and we invented the damned things!
The only thing wrong with Dr Beeching’s idea and 1960’s America is that he should have buried the idea for good instead of pruning it and if I had been born at the right time and place to have been young and living in 1960’s America as a long distance truck driver with a 426 Hemi Cuda in the garage I would have been called up for Vietnam But that ‘mess’ of a rail system of ours seems to do well enough on it’s subsidised infrastructure and tax free fuel to take work off of the road transport industry because of the breaks which the government gives it unlike road transport gets.
Carryfast:
‘… The only thing wrong with Dr Beeching’s idea and 1960’s America is that he should have buried the idea …’
His brief was flawed, the review almost non-existent & the conclusion followed suit.
The nation lost its potential to improve upon its initial advantage …& where we are now?
It depends on wether you look at rail transport as a potential ‘advantage’ or an outdated oversubsidised liability.But where we seem to be now is where the government always wanted in that rail is running freight in unfair competition with road transport.Road transport has been forced by taxation and legislation to remove it’s competitive advantage against rail transport.Which seems to be a case of we have a free market economy only if or when it suits the government’s agenda.The fact is rail lost it’s initial advantage as soon as trucks and cars were invented.
Carryfast:
‘…The fact is rail lost it’s initial advantage as soon as trucks and cars were invented…’
Er, maybe amend that to when the internal combustion engine was invented - cos warra bart buses? Plus, it wasn’t ‘…as soon as…’ because it took a few decades to shift, ie, unless you’re suggesting that mobilising allied troops of both World Wars from hometown to port would’ve been more efficient by lorry?
The shift from train to road was dependent upon morphing travel needs of individuals, emergent financial wealth of those individuals, mass transportation needs of workers, such as the notion of practical commuting to work expanded worldwide, etc. Likewise, it didn’t solely revolve around the mish-mash of needs to move goods locally, nationally & internationally: Even today I don’t know too many folk that go on holiday or commute in a lorry - supporting argument that generalisation can be dangerous & that busses are not fun (from an experience of a 100 mile bus trip six weeks ago - arghh).
Maybe our leaders in those old, skint & eternally post war days took their eye off the ball to concentrate on maintaining world greatness through (the failing) Empire and missed their chance of an objective review with an eye on long term advantage? Was it an era too full of short-term ambitions?
Meanwhile, they haven’t learned - and nor have we. Why? Because our leaders today show us that their freeloading & podgy eyes prioritise bombing then patronising radical foreigners, upsetting assorted Arabs & not least, sucking up & paying the already well-off in Brussels/Strasbourg ahead of governing us with any contemporary inspiration. That all seems a higher priority rather than positively leading us - as the (still as skint) homeland rots in its contemporary experiment of ‘diversity’ - which is today’s non-consulted way for Bliar/Brown to emulate America. Why aren’t we learning?
The list of what we’ve chucked away as a nation is seemingly endless: We are World masters at complacency & long term blindness - yet no-one ever directly votes for it! If road really is the sole solution, then perhaps consider ‘the EU’ and migrant drivers within that analogy if you wish before it gets automated to become e-controlled from Mumbai.
Carryfast:
‘…The fact is rail lost it’s initial advantage as soon as trucks and cars were invented…’
Er, maybe amend that to when the internal combustion engine was invented - cos warra bart buses? Plus, it wasn’t ‘…as soon as…’ because it took a few decades to shift, ie, unless you’re suggesting that mobilising allied troops of both World Wars from hometown to port would’ve been more efficient by lorry?
The shift from train to road was dependent upon morphing travel needs of individuals, emergent financial wealth of those individuals, mass transportation needs of workers, such as the notion of practical commuting to work expanded worldwide, etc. Likewise, it didn’t solely revolve around the mish-mash of needs to move goods locally, nationally & internationally: Even today I don’t know too many folk that go on holiday or commute in a lorry - supporting argument that generalisation can be dangerous & that busses are not fun (from an experience of a 100 mile bus trip six weeks ago - arghh).
Maybe our leaders in those old, skint & eternally post war days took their eye off the ball to concentrate on maintaining world greatness through (the failing) Empire and missed their chance of an objective review with an eye on long term advantage? Was it an era too full of short-term ambitions?
Meanwhile, they haven’t learned - and nor have we. Why? Because our leaders today show us that their freeloading & podgy eyes prioritise bombing then patronising radical foreigners, upsetting assorted Arabs & not least, sucking up & paying the already well-off in Brussels/Strasbourg ahead of governing us with any contemporary inspiration. That all seems a higher priority rather than positively leading us - as the (still as skint) homeland rots in its contemporary experiment of ‘diversity’ - which is today’s non-consulted way for Bliar/Brown to emulate America. Why aren’t we learning?
The list of what we’ve chucked away as a nation is seemingly endless: We are World masters at complacency & long term blindness - yet no-one ever directly votes for it! If road really is the sole solution, then perhaps consider ‘the EU’ and migrant drivers within that analogy if you wish before it gets automated to become e-controlled from Mumbai.
Keith
Why would anyone want to use a bus or a train to commute or go on holiday when they’ve got a good fast car in the garage? .and being a migrant driver seems a good idea for anyone leaving the commie republic here for somewhere like Canada where they still (so far) value their road transport industry.But when it came to ‘mobilising’ troops in the two world wars they would’nt have got much further than the French coast without trucks and check out the red ball highway after the D Day landings which kept the advance into Germany going with supplies.Although even they did’nt seem to have the sense to run each truck with a drawbar trailer like the Germans did with many of theirs.By the way it looks like the government have got Top Gear taken off the tele this week in case Clarkson upsets the commie plan being formulated in Copenhagen for even more rail transport here so that the Chinese can have a better standard of living by having a car each .
i dont know why there is this dislike of rail !!! I think there will be lots more intermodal terminals and trucks and trains will be working together more in the future .Rail is a vital part of the landscape and are going to get more important as time goes on !!! .
bringbakbiffa:
i dont know why there is this dislike of rail !!! I think there will be lots more intermodal terminals and trucks and trains will be working together more in the future .Rail is a vital part of the landscape and are going to get more important as time goes on !!! .
I couldn’t agree more mate. The alternative seems to be whats happening now, all the way from manufacturer to retailer from abroad by foreign trucks, give me trains anyday.
bringbakbiffa:
i dont know why there is this dislike of rail !!! I think there will be lots more intermodal terminals and trucks and trains will be working together more in the future .Rail is a vital part of the landscape and are going to get more important as time goes on !!! .
I couldn’t agree more mate. The alternative seems to be whats happening now, all the way from manufacturer to retailer from abroad by foreign trucks, give me trains anyday.
I’d rather see a foreign truck take the load all the way than let the rail transport industry do the best part of the job leaving British road transport with the dregs at the end of the journey.If the british truck drivers want to do the job which they should be doing then it’s up to them to try to get a job driving one of those foreign wagons.But rail’s idea of trucks and trains working ‘together’ just means good jobs for train drivers and local multi drop work for truck drivers.But it seems very strange to hear a truck driver say that they don’t know why a truck driver should dislike the rail industry when road and rail should be competing against each other not co operating.Unless it’s the government plan to make a transport monopoly.
Carryfast:
‘…Why would anyone want to use a bus or a train to commute or go on holiday when they’ve got a good fast car in the garage? …’
Yeah …shoot the disabled, all under seventeens the ■■■■■■■ the banned & owners of less than ‘…fast…’ motors.
Carryfast:
‘… a migrant driver seems a good idea for anyone leaving the commie republic here …’
Doh, ‘…here…’ is hyper-liberal and supposedly free & capitalist society headed by a monarch - and pending the ‘workers’ getting taxed or pee’d off by having their Christmas boxes banned has hitherto been the financial hub of the world, matey.
Carryfast:
‘…somewhere like Canada where they still (so far) value their road transport industry…’
Is there an attention deficit or personal security issue emerging? I don’t give a fig whether I am associated with ‘…value…’ or not - and suggest that those with either shallow or egos that need massaging have a chat with themselves.
Carryfast:
‘…But when it came to ‘mobilising’ troops in the two world wars they would’nt have got much further than the French coast without trucks…’
Sure - over dirt tracks whilst the human cargo walked/slithered/crawled - or were buried wher they fell.
Carryfast:
‘…Clarkson upsets the commie plan being formulated in Copenhagen for even more rail transport here so that the Chinese can have a better standard of living by having a car each…’
Clarkson is more than capable of upsetting both himself and every known saint, whilst offending many others in between: Meanwhile, having worked in Hong Kong for over four years, I hereby testify that (generically) the Chinese displayed crap driving ability and should remain restricted to bikes, buses, trains, trams, rickshaw or flip-flop - as evidenced by the government of that territory severely restricting personal car ownership from the early 1980’s, bless 'em.
We’re using less trains on the existing network than we ever did , so yes there is plenty of room on the tracks. The main line infrastructure is not running close to capacity.
