Strange the chap from Driver Require they spoke to says the solution is an increase in Agency rates.
Although he did go on to say
“In the longer term, we appeal to the authorities to drive improvements to LGV driver working conditions both in the haulage companies and on the UK road network. Meanwhile, we expect that market forces will maintain higher pay rates for LGV drivers, which in turn should result in greater retention and an easing of the supply shortage.”
Which is the first time I’ve heard somebody in the industry call for that, mostly they seem to be keen on some gimmicky scheme to get “under represented minorities” in the industry, using the theory that if they make the right noises about diversity they’ll get the media coverage they want.
Maybe if the industry improves pay and conditions the job might appeal to all sections of our society, how about that idea for being inclusive?
Benjie83:
Here’s a prime example of what us new guys are up against, pics below.
Now I’ve held both counter/reach tickets, glady renew if a job secured, I’ve no points, never had a whisper on any licence categories for any of the aforementioned preferences…
My communication skills are second to none(many on here I know will vouch for it [emoji8])…
I’m 10 minutes away from the yard, have done London multidrop, and love farms(esp the ones with animals on), I’d night out in a heartbeat, and would gladly load an do yard duties if shizzle goes quiet, long as hourly rates same, I’m happy.
I see where the old timers are coming from. Days gone by when people looked up to you as you flung a 46 tonner about.
No merely a slave to the trade.
Im 38 will keep my liscence up to date in the hope wages rise and hours drop. No one should be allowed to work 15 hours.
Loads of jobs work 15 hours, many many moons ago, I was a prison officer in a London jail… if you were unlucky, you would do roll call at 7am then do your days shift until 17:30 … then had a 30 min break, then carry on to do evening duties… and finish at 21:00, if the roll was not correct you would stay until it was correct that could be 23:00 etc, then you would be back in at 7am or 7:30 m the next day, no guarantee pd 9 hours rest, is if a prison needed to go to hospital, you might get them back to the nick at 3 am still expected back in at 7:30am … 10 hour shifts were the norM… had to work every other weekend no extra rates etc … work public holidays for time off in lieu etc … was the wages great … in London no, only 33k a year… still had to do payment plus to get extra income… and 16 hour days were regular in the jail …
And how is Prison Officer recruitment and retention these days?
Same issues maybe?
ezydriver:
Don’t hold your breath for better pay and conditions. The FTA are already making noises at No.10 about the industry being removed from post-Brexit immigration policy. They claim the sector is heavily reliant on migrant workers to fill the eternal ‘59000 shortfall’ in drivers and applaud the reduction of the £30k salary threshold. Let that and its implications sink in for a moment.
As long as the powers that be want cheap workers, they shall get them however from wherever. If I had a son, I would in no way shape or form encourage him to be a lorry driver. Perhaps the FTA would better use its time researching the causes of that widespread sentiment. One bloke at my place retrained to be a sparky aged 50, and left to do that. Another in his early 50s is leaving in a couple of weeks to become an HGV instructor. I’m 41 and currently taking significant steps to retrain in a different industry. It really is a horrendous industry to work in.
However the last time the likes of the FTA and RHA went to government asking for help in getting more drivers they were told to bugger off, as even our leaders had found out there are more than enough HGV Licence holder, even DCPC holder at the time to cover any perceived driver shortage. So technically there is not “skills” shortage for them to bleat about.
However as you’ve mentioned the problems isn’t getting new drivers through a test, but retaining those how already have a licence.
Benjie83:
Here’s a prime example of what us new guys are up against, pics below.
Now I’ve held both counter/reach tickets, glady renew if a job secured, I’ve no points, never had a whisper on any licence categories for any of the aforementioned preferences…
My communication skills are second to none(many on here I know will vouch for it [emoji8])…
I’m 10 minutes away from the yard, have done London multidrop, and love farms(esp the ones with animals on), I’d night out in a heartbeat, and would gladly load an do yard duties if shizzle goes quiet, long as hourly rates same, I’m happy.
Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk
Have you been into their yard and asked?
Can’t help but feel it’d be a wasted trip bud, entitlements only been held since October BUT I suppose nothing ventured as always…[emoji20]
As for my forkie tickets, they were taken maaaany moons ago, only used em on test as funnily enough back then their was a shortage of forkies too…
I lapsed em an went out clearing up dead people instead, was far less stress than job hunting for wagon work that’s for sure [emoji849]
Benjie83:
Here’s a prime example of what us new guys are up against, pics below.
Now I’ve held both counter/reach tickets, glady renew if a job secured, I’ve no points, never had a whisper on any licence categories for any of the aforementioned preferences…
My communication skills are second to none(many on here I know will vouch for it [emoji8])…
I’m 10 minutes away from the yard, have done London multidrop, and love farms(esp the ones with animals on), I’d night out in a heartbeat, and would gladly load an do yard duties if shizzle goes quiet, long as hourly rates same, I’m happy.
Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk
Have you been into their yard and asked?
Can’t help but feel it’d be a wasted trip bud, entitlements only been held since October BUT I suppose nothing ventured as always…[emoji20]
As for my forkie tickets, they were taken maaaany moons ago, only used em on test as funnily enough back then their was a shortage of forkies too…
I lapsed em an went out clearing up dead people instead, was far less stress than job hunting for wagon work that’s for sure [emoji849]
Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk
Maybe if you turn up there is a 90% chance of nothing, but if you don’t its a 100% chance of nothing, for 10 minutes down the road I’d take that gamble, get worse odds on the lottery and that cost £2 a week.
I see where the old timers are coming from. Days gone by when people looked up to you as you flung a 46 tonner about.
No merely a slave to the trade.
Im 38 will keep my liscence up to date in the hope wages rise and hours drop. No one should be allowed to work 15 hours.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
where does working 15 hours come into it?
mostly you sit on your hole driving which nowadays is effortless,the rest of the on duty time is sitting on your hole waiting.
if your paid by the hours,then its money for nothing.
different case if your daft enough to be on salary.
if your tramping or trip dosh,then you get held up and delayed enough to give you all the boredom you can handle.
i prefer trip dosh as 6 or 7 hours kip a night is way more than enough to keep me going.
apart from getting your tea at night,and a cuppa when you wake,the rest is just a waste of time.(obviously this formula does not apply if your parked in la jon or similar)
if i was on day work,then 11 is fine,but for tramping is just boring.everyones different and if your not happy with your wages,just go elsewhere till you are.
theres a driver shortage dontcha know,the world is your lobster…( this applies if your a driver,and not a cabbage in a hi viz)
Would that be the same Driver Require dressing up hourly rates by including holiday in the calculation. I joined with them not too long ago. They advertised a job as £13.50 per hour. This was of course LTD so I enquired as to the PAYE rate. I was hoping it was gonna be the usual quid an hour less as £12.50 ain’t too bad for day work. But alas it wasn’t, as it included holiday pay. The actual rate was something like £10.23 per hour. I was on that 6 years ago with time and half after 8 hours.
They couldn’t even tell me that rate at first, they were all so used to fobbing people off with the phoney rate that not one of them knew the true PAYE rate. Needless to say I didn’t start with them.
Applied for Stobart’s £9/p.h. class 1, couldn’t get an interview the day they called me as they were fully booked, next day interview - 5 more candidates for that same job that day alone. They told me they’ll assess more people until the end of the week (it was Tuesday…)
My agency job from last year was paying £11 p.h. class 2 nights and £14 p.h. weekend rate, now same job pays £10/£13 and less work to go around overall
Class 1 urgent shift on agency - the guy they booked didn’t show up, get there asap; Fri night into Sat morning so weekend = £11.50 p.h. lol
I’m looking at posters ‘Warehouse to wheels - sign up now!’ and ‘Congratulations to Omar/Kumaj/Jacek on successfully obtaining his C+E license with our company!’ plastered all over the walls in transport, meanwhile an update running on the TV: From 2020 - One overtime shift per driver per month, NO EXCEPTIONS’, reduced OT rate…it’s like they’re trying to create an over supply of drivers to bring wages even lower. Heck, I know people who have class 2/class 1 licenses who are happily working warehouse jobs and make pretty much the same as me on a weekly basis doing roughly the same hours, they cba to even go look for a driving job.
I see where the old timers are coming from. Days gone by when people looked up to you as you flung a 46 tonner about.
No merely a slave to the trade.
Im 38 will keep my liscence up to date in the hope wages rise and hours drop. No one should be allowed to work 15 hours.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
where does working 15 hours come into it?
mostly you sit on your hole driving which nowadays is effortless,the rest of the on duty time is sitting on your hole waiting.
if your paid by the hours,then its money for nothing.
different case if your daft enough to be on salary.
if your tramping or trip dosh,then you get held up and delayed enough to give you all the boredom you can handle.
i prefer trip dosh as 6 or 7 hours kip a night is way more than enough to keep me going.
apart from getting your tea at night,and a cuppa when you wake,the rest is just a waste of time.(obviously this formula does not apply if your parked in la jon or similar)
if i was on day work,then 11 is fine,but for tramping is just boring.everyones different and if your not happy with your wages,just go elsewhere till you are.
theres a driver shortage dontcha know,the world is your lobster…( this applies if your a driver,and not a cabbage in a hi viz)
My wife sits on here hole as you put it 9-5 mon - friday for £37,500. Hour lunch break daily no weekends and plenty of holidays included.
I used to drive 60+ hours a week and stressed out my nut. Never matched her pay once. Unkess you add up all the buckshee stuff you could do before trackers and cameras came in.
Hence why i left.
Dont get me wrong diesel. Im sure there are boys out there that cant see past driving a lorry but believe me there is a lot cushtier jobs out there for better money that even a monkey could do.
And before you say it. Maybe i am a monkey. Who knows.
where does working 15 hours come into it?
mostly you sit on your hole driving which nowadays is effortless,the rest of the on duty time is sitting on your hole waiting.
if your paid by the hours,then its money for nothing.
Nothing more to say except, one and a halfs weeks work for a basic weekly wage,
Applied for Stobart’s £9/p.h. class 1, couldn’t get an interview the day they called me as they were fully booked, next day interview - 5 more candidates for that same job that day alone. They told me they’ll assess more people until the end of the week (it was Tuesday…)
I’m embarrassed to say this but I applied for Stobarts a few months ago. I know I know, shoot me now. I’d had a bad day.
Heard nothing for a fortnight and was hoping they’d rejected me (the shame of it). Part of me wanted them to ring coz if I’m not good enough for Stobarts I might as well burn my license.
Anyway eventually they rang and left an answer message. I ignored it so they rang again and left another message. Then some woman emailed me. I eventually fobbed her off via email and heard nothing since.
Harry Monk:
How many more times does this need to be said?
If there genuinely was a driver shortage, then the wages wouldn’t be low in the first place. That’s how supply and demand works.
That’s how supply and demand SHOULD work - but we have a corrupted state of price discovery in the HGV jobs market alas…
In a proper capitalist system - drivers would be paid a sliding scale of rates, according to their
(1) Age and years of experience
(2) Number of yards worked at (wider experience!)
(3) Tickets held
(4) Shift bonus for Friday Nights, First thing monday mornings on top of usual saturday/sunday premiums
(5) Better retention “perks” for those drivers with clean licences/good H&S and sickness records…
At the moment though, the system is “corrupted” because if a yard needs a driver for a particular unpopular shift with lesser-held tickets, certain experience etc…
…They’ll just get in someone who can barely do the job - but holds a licence with upto 6 points on it. If he screws up, just put an insurance claim in, get rid of said driver, and find another. Rinse and repeat.
The other party being conned from all this, as I’ve said in the past - is the insurer of course.
Firms could also “help out” IF there were a proper shortage - by training their new recruits extensively… Alas, such training doesn’t yet seem to include actually getting the HGV licence in the first place at all-too-many yards these days…
The closest one might see to what I describe here - is a lengthy induction period, which would have to be on full pay as well of course.
Let’s see an end to UNPAID and UNINSURED inductions/assessments then - across the industry…
Driver shortage my arse, shortage of good quality drivers, who will work for a fair days money yes and i know this for sure…I had the misfortune to go to a mates funeral this week ( truck driver ) and my old boss was there too ( we both worked for him at one time, anyway boss was saying hes got 6 motors parked up, cant get drivers yet pays em £800 a week take home with a start at 0600, and mostly finishes at 1400…hows about that.
truckyboy:
Driver shortage my arse, shortage of good quality drivers, who will work for a fair days money yes and i know this for sure…I had the misfortune to go to a mates funeral this week ( truck driver ) and my old boss was there too ( we both worked for him at one time, anyway boss was saying hes got 6 motors parked up, cant get drivers yet pays em £800 a week take home with a start at 0600, and mostly finishes at 1400…hows about that.
I smell diesel ■■■■. Just be brave and say you cant commit to any other job other than driving an hgv and living the dream.
cgscott, i am retired now, gave my licences up last year, but i know for a fact there possibly could be some B/S but all in all he did pay good wages.in 2002 i was taking home over £600 a week, and that was 5 days, good tackle, and 100% legal.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
where does working 15 hours come into it?
mostly you sit on your hole driving which nowadays is effortless,the rest of the on duty time is sitting on your hole waiting.
if your paid by the hours,then its money for nothing.
different case if your daft enough to be on salary.
if your tramping or trip dosh,then you get held up and delayed enough to give you all the boredom you can handle.
i prefer trip dosh as 6 or 7 hours kip a night is way more than enough to keep me going.
apart from getting your tea at night,and a cuppa when you wake,the rest is just a waste of time.(obviously this formula does not apply if your parked in la jon or similar)
if i was on day work,then 11 is fine,but for tramping is just boring.everyones different and if your not happy with your wages,just go elsewhere till you are.
theres a driver shortage dontcha know,the world is your lobster…( this applies if your a driver,and not a cabbage in a hi viz)
[/quote]
My wife sits on here hole as you put it 9-5 mon - friday for £37,500. Hour lunch break daily no weekends and plenty of holidays included.
I used to drive 60+ hours a week and stressed out my nut. Never matched her pay once. Unkess you add up all the buckshee stuff you could do before trackers and cameras came in.
Hence why i left.
Dont get me wrong diesel. Im sure there are boys out there that cant see past driving a lorry but believe me there is a lot cushtier jobs out there for better money that even a monkey could do.
And before you say it. Maybe i am a monkey. Who knows.
[/quote]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
i totally agree with you there bud,but its not what else you can do,or what other professions pay,its about the snowflakes collapsing with the thought of a few 15 hour spreadovers.
if you want more wages,then do a different job,if you want to drive a truck,then just do it,stop moaning,and just get on with it if your happy enough with the wages and conditions.
i wouldnt be working as a lorry driver as i do quite allright with my other business interests having made my money for the rest of my life,but i do like to do the odd panic trip that i can do in a hooked up gruntmobile in my own way.
i like the craic,and a day or week now and again.
in the past ive employed 50-70 folk which is stressful and have had a lot of commercial and private properties and now im quite ok financially to play at a couple of hobbies,( one of them battering a trip now and again ,but if your penchance is to drive a truck,then its meant to be a mans job despite what the stobart/tesco snowflakes are turning it into with generally crap wages for the hours you spend in it working or not.
driving a truck is a great job,but 99% of every other aspect of it from wages to vosa is nothing but torture and id advise anyone to get out of it unless you want a job similar to those youtube legend embarrassments.
Harry Monk:
How many more times does this need to be said?
If there genuinely was a driver shortage, then the wages wouldn’t be low in the first place. That’s how supply and demand works.
That’s how supply and demand SHOULD work - but we have a corrupted state of price discovery in the HGV jobs market alas…
In a proper capitalist system - drivers would be paid a sliding scale of rates, according to their
(1) Age and years of experience
(2) Number of yards worked at (wider experience!)
(3) Tickets held
(4) Shift bonus for Friday Nights, First thing monday mornings on top of usual saturday/sunday premiums
(5) Better retention “perks” for those drivers with clean licences/good H&S and sickness records…
That’s not a capitalist system, that sounds like something a state controlled system would come up with.
A capitalist system is the supply and demand system that Harry mentioned, if you have more workers than jobs you pay the lowest rate they’ll accept, if you have more work than jobs, you put the money up until you have filled the vacancies.
Winseer:
Let’s see an end to UNPAID and UNINSURED inductions/assessments then - across the industry…
I seem to recall the Labour party suggesting the same thing.
Harry Monk:
How many more times does this need to be said?
If there genuinely was a driver shortage, then the wages wouldn’t be low in the first place. That’s how supply and demand works.
That’s how supply and demand SHOULD work - but we have a corrupted state of price discovery in the HGV jobs market alas…
In a proper capitalist system - drivers would be paid a sliding scale of rates, according to their
(1) Age and years of experience
(2) Number of yards worked at (wider experience!)
(3) Tickets held
(4) Shift bonus for Friday Nights, First thing monday mornings on top of usual saturday/sunday premiums
(5) Better retention “perks” for those drivers with clean licences/good H&S and sickness records…
That’s not a capitalist system, that sounds like something a state controlled system would come up with.
A capitalist system is the supply and demand system that Harry mentioned, if you have more workers than jobs you pay the lowest rate they’ll accept, if you have more work than jobs, you put the money up until you have filled the vacancies. .
That is exactly the system as used the Peoples Republik of the Netherlands…
Wages are negotiated nationally, by the Unions (bloody communists)… they have a scale, where jobs are paid depending on type of work, experience, years of service etc. There is a separate scale, for expenses and night out monies, again, paid depending on the type of work and time away. These are minimum amounts, a company is of course free to pay more, to attract/retain drivers.
On top of that, if you are made redundant, you dont drop down to 75 quid a week. You get almost all of your last wage, for about 6 months (last time I looked), and then it goes gradually down, until after about a year or so, you get the basic unemployment benefit.
(Yes, before you ask. I’m looking at going back as soon as my reason to stay here is no longer that. But as that involves my other half passing away, I hope to be here a bit longer.)
