30 years on

robroy:
Bring on Part3 Juddian you talk a lot of sense, an uncommon thing on here most of the time. An accurate account of how the job has changed over the years.

Got to disagree on not liking modern trucks auto boxes etc, although there is no longer any skill required to drive them I wouldn’t like to go back to driving some of the heaps of [zb] I have driven in the past.
Everybody who has not should drive (or try to drive :smiley: ) just once a non power steering, crash box motor, just to see how different it was, but I definitely prefer my modern Actros.

Part of my objections to the modern lorry is because any fool can point them down the road and get them up to full speed, its only a case of sticking the thing in D and shoving the throttle to the floor, so any idiot can and does do the job, and our job is devalued because those idiots are an increasing minority.
The job is now too easy, and because its so easy it attracts too many of those who, if was still a grafters game, wouldn’t be there and we would in many cases be far better off without them.

Apart from that i liked having a throbbing (ooer missus) ■■■■■■■ under me and a Fuller/Eaton stick in me left hand, or the sheer magnificence of a Crusader in full song knowing you were controlling the beast.

There might well be a part 3, and you can all moan at Robroy for requesting it… :smiling_imp:

There might well be a part 3, and you can all moan at Robroy for requesting it… :smiling_imp:

Go for it Juddian, I may not totally agree with everything you have written, but your posts must go down as some of the best written passionate thoughts that this forum has seen for a long time…

OK then, part 3 as requested, you asked for it… :open_mouth: …where i shall try to focus on improvements and not go into one of my daft rants…

Lady Drivers, a Massive Apology…i write as if this is a male only profession, i apologise for that, nothing is meant by it and i’m not ignoring you, its just the way i phrase things, when i say chaps or lads i include chappesses and girls too.

My own dear Sis has been driving lorries longer than i have, she still does, she’s roughed it on continental in the old days, full tilt strip outs, handballing, long fragile loads, oversized etc you name it, her accident and work record are exemplary and i’m as proud as hell of her.

She had to do the job better than many men because in previous times there would be the odd idiot and his neanderthal groupies hoping for a mess up, the men she worked with had nothing but respect for her too.
I work with two women drivers now and they are both very competent at the job, and respected by us colleagues and the company.

Employment terms and conditions,
have never been better, for me personally and many, though others have found different, i’m salaried but earning as much for every hour worked as i did when working me fingers to the bone on the transporters, the company i work for do not want to kill their staff off so POA is not required and will not be counted.
POA is a bit of fiddle in some cases and enables drivers to still be working 70odd hour weeks, often in order to gain only 1 decent weeks pay for two weeks work, this is not in the spirit of the WTD, which was meant to stop people being exploited by poor pay schemes only of any use when excessive hours or effort are put in.
Some drivers want to continue working 70 hour weeks, this IMO is a throwback to the old days we could do without, a driver should be able to earn a decent wage for 40ish hours, or if longer weeks are required as they often are, then the better companies pay the driver for stand down time to bring the average hours back in line, my previous car transporter employer paid stand down at around £100 a day.

Terms and conditions have stagnated for many over the time of this recession, its noticeable how much better off drivers with active unions at their place of work are, but thats almost always been the case and i think it always will be.

Militancy doesn’t work, and a good union steward should be wearing two hats, both protecting his members interests, but also keeping the sillier members excesses in check and using his influence to help maintain some discipline, so the usual suspects don’t take the ■■■■ and effectively sickie themselves and every one else out of a good job, work hard keep your good employer in profit and everyone’s a winner.

I’ve been in the union (URTU 38 years ago), and latterly T&G now Unite for nearly all my working life, i recommend all drivers to form themselves into unions, but thats only my opionion based on what i’ve experienced, one union set ups was poor but that was choice of wrong, buyable selfish, stewards…your shop steward is the most important choice you will ever make, so choose wisely.

The people who do annoy me are those who work for unionised companies, won’t join the union (which is their right), but have no trouble trousering the annual pay deals the union negotiates for them.

Do new drivers get into transport under false hopes and promises i wonder (trainers/agencies do you tell porkies?), you’ve always been able to earn relatively good money for a working class type of job, but it always involves either anti social shift work of some sort, or excessive hours, or sheer bloody hard work muck filth and bullets to earn the better money…there are exceptions of course, usually highly unionised jobs where dead mans shoes rules strictly apply, these jobs do not really count for the vast majority of us because unless you are related you will never ever get in.

Headline figures of £40k+ only tell half the story, it won’t ever happen on a 9 to 5x5 day week easy life job.

You can work relatively normal days without weekends by doing parcel delivery collection work, and i take my hat off to the boys and girls who do this because its hell, and i always bend over backwards to let them out and ease their passage whenever possible, i couldn’t do it.

Relationships, which fits nicely between T’s and C’s and training.

This job is hard on all involved, and there has been a sea change in what people expect from life, much of it pie in the sky from what i can see.

Look, we’re generally working class people, being told we’re middle class because we sensibly bought our own houses doesn’t wash with me, simply put we get up and go and graft for a living, that makes us working class by definition…or as my old Geordie mate used to say, some of 'em don’t know which pot to ■■■■ in.

That’s not to say people shouldn’t have ambitions and hopes, but tempered by realism, we aint premiership footballers or celebs so don’t try to live the false, and IMO quite ludicrous, lives of excess that these odd people inhabit.

If you get married and you’re on a joint income of £40k a year, does it really make any sense to splash out £20k+ on a flash wedding leaving you with a millstone round your neck before you’ve even started out…other idiotically wasteful things should be viewed similarly.

Working hard with an eye on the future further ahead is the key, in my humble.
There is no more liberating day in your life than when you pay that mortgage off, they no longer have you by the bollox, no one can take your home, so whilst its nice to have new cars and exotic holidays and whoop it up nights out, temper your outgoings so you can do things sensibly.

Modern attitudes are generated by the media as much as anything, much of it is false, maybe if more people got back to realising what is important in their lives, their loved ones, instead of materialistic gain or by trying to live up to someone else’s ideals, then they might find themselves happier.
Work/life balance, you need time with your families, but you also need to provide enough sustenance for them to live a decent life (without spoiling them), being together playing modern utopian parent when you should really be working won’t pay the bills and it definately won’t pay that mortgage off before interest rates rise sharply, a fine line to walk this with no hard and fast rules.

Driver Training, hmm a thorny one this, and will i suspect have some very opposing views, which is exactly how it should be.

Trainers are good at getting new drivers through tests, of that there is no question, but i’m thoroughly disappointed in the vehicle control and handling skills i see on the road now from too many drivers, and general awareness and respect of the type of vehicle they are now in, drivers so obviously relying (or totally unaware of what they are doing :open_mouth: ) on the vehicles systems to keep it from sliding off the road.

Maybe a bit of back to basics is called for, maybe get away from theorising and box ticking and get back to putting training time into teaching drivers to control that vehicle, make them do controlled emergency stops on private ground but with the ABS disconnected, teach them how to manoeuver confidently, teach them feel again, and for God’s sake throw this half witted ‘brakes to slow gears to go’ mantra firmly where it belongs, in the dustbin…lorries despite all this dumbing down are not cars, and when things go wrong ice and snow arrive or even driving on melted tarmac when its rained, then that old fashioned feel and skill comes back into play to keep the thing on the road, let alone learning to feel G’s building up on corners or pendulums being created on switchbacks and roundabouts, especially when the new driver has no concept of feel so hasn’t the foggiest idea how to drive to the load/weather/conditions/weight/surface, because he’s never been taught.

The move to give new drivers a manual licence when the instruction and test is taken on an auto is frankly bordering on insanity, what idiot dreamed that one up, don’t tell me an EU directive that no one here in their cushy civil service well pensioned jobs (sorry careers) had the guts to object to, and i include trainers and testers in this, yes you front line troops in this sector.

And please trainers, when you have in the drivers seat someone who will blatantly never be a lorry driver as long as they have a hole in their arse, do the decent thing and stop the training and send the person away, even if it means re-imbursing the balance and losing a couple of days training money, it won’t happen often as people as bad as i’m thinking of only come up every now and then, not everyone is lorry driver material and its not morally right to just take their money and send them out into work they will never be able to do competently.

Testers must bear their share of this too, we’ve all seen the results of idiots with licences who should never have passed.

By the way, hope i never have to resit my test… :blush:

On the job training varies greatly, you have the one extreme where new agency lads arrive at a job at 4am and are somehow expected to know everything, some regular drivers and admin at some of these places are of no use at all and at best ignore the poor sod, or get snotty with them when they ask where the engine oil is…shouldn’t need oil but maybe the regulars fail to check it between services… :bulb:

At the other extreme i’ve worked on car transporters for years and latterly tankers, in both scenarios the training is usually first class, where it isn’t natural selection follows.

Many jobs could do with better on the job training, and i don’t mean the endless running through damned daily check lists ticking idiot boxes as found at logistics giant run sites.

One thing thats missing now is mentoring, or the unofficial apprenticeship.

When i started out on artics a decent older driver took me under his wing and taught me the job for a long time, i was so grateful for this and i shall never forget his memory, there is no better point in a drivers life than when you’ve earned the respect of the old school, that respect isn’t a right because someone has passed a driving test, it has to be earned just it always has in all industries.

I believe responsible companies should encourage this more than they currently do, when a drivers learning the ropes try where possible to send a trusted decent driver (preferably usual mentor) with another load to work alongside them, helps give the new driver confidence knowing someone there is looking out for them, this would IMO make a massive difference to the skills and attitude being passed down the line.

Many older drivers would welcome this as much as the new drivers would appreciate it, nothing but good for the industry, paid trainers are all evry well, but there’s an us and them where many trainers are concerned.

Sorry for waffling on so much, you’'ll be glad its end of part 3, may be a part 4 later in the week when i’ve found inspiration…

Juddian:
I know a bloke who was failed on his assessment for a local RDC, i also know the assessor from old, he failed the bloke due to some petty box he failed to tick on the check sheet.
Now this bloke’s been driving lorries longer than me, he’s spent 25 years on car transporters, he spent umpteen years before that on general haulage, he doesn’t have prangs nor sickies and he’s forgotten more than this assessor will ever know, but he was failed, it would be funny if it wasn’t so typical of the box ticking mentality now prevalent, it was only an agency job by the way.

Anecdotal evidence from my DCPC sessions are that the “I’ve been driving 40 years, there’s nothing you can tell me about this job” type are actually the ones that don’t have a clue about the job and even less of a clue about the tacho rules n regs.

Yet they’re the ones who interrupt the session with their boring tales of middle eastern heroics.

Left hand down!:

Juddian:
I know a bloke who was failed on his assessment for a local RDC, i also know the assessor from old, he failed the bloke due to some petty box he failed to tick on the check sheet.
Now this bloke’s been driving lorries longer than me, he’s spent 25 years on car transporters, he spent umpteen years before that on general haulage, he doesn’t have prangs nor sickies and he’s forgotten more than this assessor will ever know, but he was failed, it would be funny if it wasn’t so typical of the box ticking mentality now prevalent, it was only an agency job by the way.

Anecdotal evidence from my DCPC sessions are that the “I’ve been driving 40 years, there’s nothing you can tell me about this job” type are actually the ones that don’t have a clue about the job and even less of a clue about the tacho rules n regs.

That’s why someone’s been happy to pay him £45/50k a year then (when i last worked with him on the cars and again now), because he knew bugger all.
Do you not think that a viable company with valuable contracts with premium car makers wouldn’t be monitoring tacho infringements etc.

Thank God he’s done the DCPC at last, winged it since 1972, he’ll be safe and professional at last now, phew… :sunglasses: :laughing:

desypete:
the cabs are much better but i hate auto gear boxes, you lose to much acceleration, just when you might need it, like at roundabouts, i think there dangerous and i just wonder how many bumbs will be as a result of someone trying to get going from a roundabout but crawls out rather than a good old boot down and get going. you can always sit there at the roundabout for a good half hour i suppose but then your going to be late for a timed delivery

timed delivery’s should be outlawed as well in my eyes as there a risk in the driving game. we all get held up and then have to try to make up the time lost. that means danger to me so why the h@s havent outlawed this practice i will never know ?

i miss the old days were drivers had to have a lot of skill in there job, they had to plan there route, find there way around the country using just a map and a - z or just stop off at the first garage you would come to in the town your delivering for directions or stop off at the local cafe or butty bar. are there any cafes around anymore ? lol
i miss starting up the old trucks the smoke would blow out and you would let your engine run for a while so it could warm up lol go and have a natter with the lads with a cuppa while its warming up
no cab heaters were a pain as well for night outs i could just imagine some of the drivers of today having to cope in the freezing cold and rain dripping in the cabs lol
the job was as rough as a bears arse years ago

i am proud i grew up in driving from them early years
i am a professional driver never had a crash in all my years on the road ( 26 ) so thats not to bad a track record and now someone new with a cpc card will be more qualified then me with all my years of doing the job and all the experiences i have grown from in the game.

the cpc card its the last straw for me i dont have one and i will not be able to drive a truck from September so its 2 fingers up to the industry from me, and its a kick in the teeth for all us drivers who have been doing the doing over the last 20 30 years and who have stuck with transport from when the early days were hard.

we should of been given grandfather rights on the cpc card, but now its just another money rip off scam, and i am very disappointed with drivers all over who could of said no i am not paying for this card and stuck together on it

but then i am also disapointted in the so called drivers who enjoy nothing more than running into a transport office to grass someone up who has had a smoke in the cabs or report other drivers for things. we used to help each other out not stab each other in the back

thank god there are like minded people on here like desypete and juddian here here to every word you have put on here.heres one for yer parked at crawford last week thought id go in pub and have a natter,4 lorrie drivers in, all they were interested in was if the pub had wi fi then proceeded to stare into there phones all night.dont they have enough staring into a square piece of glass all day whats happened to the conversation and laughs when you park up.roll on retirement 4 years to go.

sonny pruit:
thought id go in pub and have a natter,4 lorrie drivers in, all they were interested in was if the pub had wi fi then proceeded to stare into there phones all night.dont they have enough staring into a square piece of glass all day whats happened to the conversation and laughs when you park up.

When I do park up overnight at services or truckstops, I want to get cleaned up, get fed, ring my wife and go to bed. I’ve learned that those drivers who want to stand and talk ■■■■■■■■ are best avoided.

sonny pruit:
thank god there are like minded people on here like desypete and juddian here here to every word you have put on here.heres one for yer parked at crawford last week thought id go in pub and have a natter,4 lorrie drivers in, all they were interested in was if the pub had wi fi then proceeded to stare into there phones all night.dont they have enough staring into a square piece of glass all day whats happened to the conversation and laughs when you park up.roll on retirement 4 years to go.

+1 Crack on Juddian can’t wait for number four!!

Cotswoldcrunch:

sonny pruit:
thought id go in pub and have a natter,4 lorrie drivers in, all they were interested in was if the pub had wi fi then proceeded to stare into there phones all night.dont they have enough staring into a square piece of glass all day whats happened to the conversation and laughs when you park up.

When I do park up overnight at services or truckstops, I want to get cleaned up, get fed, ring my wife and go to bed. I’ve learned that those drivers who want to stand and talk ■■■■■■■■ are best avoided.

only the lonely.

sonny pruit:

Cotswoldcrunch:

sonny pruit:
thought id go in pub and have a natter,4 lorrie drivers in, all they were interested in was if the pub had wi fi then proceeded to stare into there phones all night.dont they have enough staring into a square piece of glass all day whats happened to the conversation and laughs when you park up.

When I do park up overnight at services or truckstops, I want to get cleaned up, get fed, ring my wife and go to bed. I’ve learned that those drivers who want to stand and talk ■■■■■■■■ are best avoided.

only the lonely.

Didn’t Roy Orbison sing that? My point is when on nights out, I’ve probably worked a 15 hour day, so I’m not in the mood to hear RDC rumours and chit chat.

The worst is the discrimination that drivers have to bear, these days we are treat as bad as the blacks where in America before the civil rights movement won over

Cotswoldcrunch:

sonny pruit:

Cotswoldcrunch:

sonny pruit:
thought id go in pub and have a natter,4 lorrie drivers in, all they were interested in was if the pub had wi fi then proceeded to stare into there phones all night.dont they have enough staring into a square piece of glass all day whats happened to the conversation and laughs when you park up.

When I do park up overnight at services or truckstops, I want to get cleaned up, get fed, ring my wife and go to bed. I’ve learned that those drivers who want to stand and talk ■■■■■■■■ are best avoided.

only the lonely.

Didn’t Roy Orbison sing that? My point is when on nights out, I’ve probably worked a 15 hour day, so I’m not in the mood to hear RDC rumours and chit chat.

No warm evening stroll to find a nice pub, sit outside with a couple of decent geezers supping a quiet pint or two, relax, get away from the poxy lorry, chew the cud, and watch the pretty ladies gliding past…especially the last bit.

No wonder the roads are choca block with bulging eyed stressed out blokes, instantly aggressive if someone holds them up for a millisecond, they just shut down for the night exactly like the lorry and start up again 9 hours later having only left the bloody thing for a p and maybe a wash, bloody nora thats a depressing prospect…if i ever have to do the odd night out again you know where i’ll be…

This is another of the things at the heart of the ruination of our industry, sleeping in the cab and it leading to never leaving it, the driver has morphed into being part of the machine, lorry shuts down for 9 hours, so does the human interface, what a gloomy bloody life no wonder the youngsters are giving it a miss, couple of years of being layby Lill or service area Sam would put anyone remotely normal off for life.

I’m lucky Juddian, we have our transport dept meetings in the pub near our mill. Drinks for the duration of the meeting paid for by our boss. :smiley:
From what I’ve read in the Old Time forum on cafes, I’m grateful for a space cabbed cf rigid. Lard with every hot meal, ■■■ smoke, wearing your boots in bed because someone could nick them. Couple that with all the hi viz (in the restaurant) bovine excreters you try to avoid.

Juddian, how’d you know what I was about to say :slight_smile: I don’t work anymore but I started driving in the sixties when we didn’t have curtainsiders and very few boxes. We were even lucky if we didn’t have to handball everything on to pallets, only to have to handball it all off again at the other end ! I was as fit as a butchers dog and loved the job. As you said, no mobiles, no spotty yoof breathing down yer neck and a bit of common sense that you had to use. The Foden 12 speed could sort the men from the boys, no air suspension, so if a trailer was too high or low, it was get out and wind time. Didn’t you used to just love it when you ended up with nice new rope… not. Sheets that weighed a bleeding ton :open_mouth: Chains and dogs that could catapult you in to next week if you weren’t careful :laughing:

I’ll shut me gob now and leave room for someone else.

I get my oap pension after christmas.And I have just had a full knee replacement .Whuch was no doubt caused by all the eatons fullers etc .In my opinion autos best thing ever When i used to drive an old thornycroft for tyresoles , my left leg was twice the size of the other bugger .Dont forget it never rained when we were kids eh

I started 1969/70,not old enough to get license by grandfather rights, took test on a d series first lorry was a LAD cabbed Comet the gaffer decided when you got a better motor,for me it was a LAD cabed badger then on to a12 speed foden with gardner -12 speed 2stroke- 12speed ■■■■■■■ the foden was a smashing truck ok it was cold in the winter and hot in the summer but i loved the 12 speed box the thing that I remeber most is climbing archway at 0 200 and the sound of the 2 stroke bouncing off the walls, magic! also the cafes Jacks hill, the hollies a5 afew in london can’t remember the names the jungle, the moss(■■■■■■■■■ lockerbie ,crawford, beatock, and many more our office was the far north of scotland to the north of cornwall and any thing in between and you had to be in charge of the bloody thing or you were in the ■■■■ miss a gear climbing a hill and you had stuffed it big time, allways a copy of the headlight mag in the cab for back loads and of course the little book.It was good job and it taught you about life in general I packed up 7 yrs ago when I had a metal heartvalve fitted. no I dont like auto boxes only had one for a few days next time in yard said to boss give me one with a big stick and clutch or I walk and that was a brand new motor,I decide when to shift a gear I decide what gear I need to come down a hill. Yes im an old git and proud of it dont forget us old gits built this country driving motors that todays top notch drivers could’nt get out of the yard so i must agree with brgds

peterm:
Juddian, how’d you know what I was about to say :slight_smile: I don’t work anymore but I started driving in the sixties when we didn’t have curtainsiders and very few boxes. We were even lucky if we didn’t have to handball everything on to pallets, only to have to handball it all off again at the other end ! I was as fit as a butchers dog and loved the job. As you said, no mobiles, no spotty yoof breathing down yer neck and a bit of common sense that you had to use. The Foden 12 speed could sort the men from the boys, no air suspension, so if a trailer was too high or low, it was get out and wind time. Didn’t you used to just love it when you ended up with nice new rope… not. Sheets that weighed a bleeding ton :open_mouth: Chains and dogs that could catapult you in to next week if you weren’t careful :laughing:

I’ll shut me gob now and leave room for someone else.

Cotswoldcrunch:
When I do park up overnight at services or truckstops, I want to get cleaned up, get fed, ring my wife and go to bed. I’ve learned that those drivers who want to stand and talk ■■■■■■■■ are best avoided.

My version of that post is…
When I do park up overnight (avoiding lay bys services and truckstops when possible) I want to get cleaned up (if I haven’t already showered at my last drop) ring my wife, and like Mr Pruitt go for a sit down meal and a pint (at least 3 times a week) relax and wind down. I also avoid the ■■■■■■■■ spouters like herpes, but maybe have a conversation with the like minded drivers I often meet. I find it a more relaxing way of carrying out my job rather than get stressed out and become some sort of work obsessed robotic boring arse with his alarm set for 8hrs 59 mins :unamused:
I had to reluctantly park in a lay by last wk at Gloucs as my time was eaten up in a RTA, I sat watching in amazement and eventually laughing my knob off at a
driver sat for two hours blackening his tyres and polishing his mudguards thinking how things really have changed :unamused:

robroy:
Most of what has been said already I agree with. (maybe not with the guy who thought mobile phones in cabs are an improvement, at least then you contacted them when you wanted, not vice versa)
One of the biggest negative changes in the job is the advent of agencies and the power they have gained over the years, going from when drivers hired their services out on a when they wanted to work basis, to the way things are now. ie.where the agencies have the drivers by a cupped hand waiting for them to cough :smiling_imp: too much power, and the money they cream off could be paid directly to the driver if employed direct.

this I agree with 100% ,I am an agency driver but would prefer not to be but every time I see a job I like it is usually agency,i would love to get off agency work because when you are employed full time you at least have a sense of belonging,i have had a number of drivers talk to me about where we work,asking me questions about the place,my answer is don’t ask me I am agency my opinion does not count