Scannyfanny:
We run squeaky clean hours-wise and have immaculate kit, so I sat there confidently waiting whilst he checked the truck then the card…I nearly laid an egg when he says ‘oops…looks like you only took a 29 minute break on the 23rd!’.
Our kit is a bit older, 06 ‘Bathtub’ Freuhauf & a 53reg R124, the unit had only been tested two days before (I took it) & not a bad looking old truck.
Scannyfanny:
Sure enough, I received a letter of caution, copied it and gave to the boss. No fine, no court, end of story. Whew!
Lesson learned for me…33 minutes from then on.
I thought a few words would’ve been enough, after all, our lads don’t come close to needing to go over their hours. When you had this (29mins) problem, did you have a ‘digi’ or analogue? This has always been my main point on this, how T/F can you tell our lad was 1 min short on a paper disc??
Ross.
Yeah, me too…it was obvious when he stopped me he was training his young mate. The same officer had also stopped me for the same reason…training another newbie 2 weeks before within a quarter mile of the same spot. He didn’t twig this until I asked him if he was the traffic cop training officer for our area and used his name (which I had remembered) and he says ‘why’…I reply that he had also stopped me two weeks ago and his face went a bit red! About 3 minutes later he discovers my offence. Then it was me that had the red face! Then as he’s getting out of the wagon he says he won’t be stopping this truck for a while as he knows I’m the only driver of it. Great.
I was driving with a digi card…100% my fault…
In that case he had no reason to stop you for another check as you hadnt gone over the 28 day grace period and he should have issued you with a letter stating the fact your tacos had been checked on the previous date. get stopped hand that in job sorted away you go
Not so sure about that theory in Scotland mate…I’ve never been issued with a letter after a straight tacho check, pass or fail. No harm done on this occasion, just a cautionary letter. Easier to take it on the chin than cause a fuss with my local traffic cops when running the same route 5 days a week/52 weeks a year…■■■■ them off and you’ve just signed your own death warrant!
I think HM had it on the button about the attitude test. I also think the 29 minute trick is a bit like the old, “We pulled you because your brake light was out”
Unless this was a bang to rights 45 in a 40 or driving through a red light I would take it to court, with or without legal backup.
I had Norfolk Police pull me when I was in a Maritime Wagon (green light rated obviously) - but it was a contract wagon so didn’t say Maritime on the side.
They spent AGES going over the truck and my tacho’s, they pointed out some infringements from over 2yrs earlier but then said I’d been pretty clean since, odd infringement ie where tacho’s reset driving time on 3x15 min breaks and I hadn’t noticed, my bad but no fine.
I got a delayed prohibition notice for the reflective yellow being scraped off on the trailer long vehicle boards (where against a bay and fork trucks going in and out obviously), but whilst still with the police I’d phoned Maritime Fleet and arranged to have new ones fitted as soon as I arrived at the depot in Southampton (Millbrook not Marchwood), so they were happy with that, but still gave me a form that had to be completed and returned to show it had been done
Scannyfanny:
We run squeaky clean hours-wise and have immaculate kit, so I sat there confidently waiting whilst he checked the truck then the card…I nearly laid an egg when he says ‘oops…looks like you only took a 29 minute break on the 23rd!’.
Our kit is a bit older, 06 ‘Bathtub’ Freuhauf & a 53reg R124, the unit had only been tested two days before (I took it) & not a bad looking old truck.
Scannyfanny:
Sure enough, I received a letter of caution, copied it and gave to the boss. No fine, no court, end of story. Whew!
Lesson learned for me…33 minutes from then on.
I thought a few words would’ve been enough, after all, our lads don’t come close to needing to go over their hours. When you had this (29mins) problem, did you have a ‘digi’ or analogue? This has always been my main point on this, how T/F can you tell our lad was 1 min short on a paper disc??
Ross.
Yeah, me too…it was obvious when he stopped me he was training his young mate. The same officer had also stopped me for the same reason…training another newbie 2 weeks before within a quarter mile of the same spot. He didn’t twig this until I asked him if he was the traffic cop training officer for our area and used his name (which I had remembered) and he says ‘why’…I reply that he had also stopped me two weeks ago and his face went a bit red! About 3 minutes later he discovers my offence. Then it was me that had the red face! Then as he’s getting out of the wagon he says he won’t be stopping this truck for a while as he knows I’m the only driver of it. Great.
I was driving with a digi card…100% my fault…
In that case he had no reason to stop you for another check as you hadnt gone over the 28 day grace period and he should have issued you with a letter stating the fact your tacos had been checked on the previous date. get stopped hand that in job sorted away you go
Not so sure about that theory in Scotland mate…I’ve never been issued with a letter after a straight tacho check, pass or fail. No harm done on this occasion, just a cautionary letter. Easier to take it on the chin than cause a fuss with my local traffic cops when running the same route 5 days a week/52 weeks a year…■■■■ them off and you’ve just signed your own death warrant!
Might wanna check that out because if they take your taco out they have gotta give you a slip of paper saying so and you get your 28 get of jail free card had it done a few times and if they not give you you can refuse to move
Might wanna check that out because if they take your taco out they have gotta give you a slip of paper saying so and you get your 28 get of jail free card had it done a few times and if they not give you you can refuse to move
Unfortunately incorrect on so many things.
There is no legal requirement for the Police or VOSA to sign a chart that has been removed for examination. It is done as a ‘courtesy’ to show why the chart was removed during the working day. Nor is there any reason for either to give any paperwork to show they have looked at previous records, although many will indicate on a tacho chart how many other charts they have looked at. With digital the insertion of a control card leaves a record on the driver card and VU memory, it is assumed that they have checked records made prior to the date of the control.
You can refuse to move if you wish to but that will either end with you getting charged with ‘obstruction’ or being the only one in the locked checksite overnight 'cos everybody else has gone home.
Vehicle Examiners will issue paperwork called a PG35EC when a vehicle clears an examination. it may well get you out of another examination over the next 10-14 days, but don’t count on it.
If you get a fixed penalty for drivers hours etc carry the paperwork with you, it is a legal requirement in that if you don’t and you get stopped again, you are quite likely to get another FPN dealing with the same matter.
OK peeps, I’ve now seen the tickets and the info on them is as follows;
The two offences TR68175 ‘exceding 6.5hrs driving’ both with fixed penalty of £200.
One offence, TR68174 the copper has written “drive over 5.2hrs without break” This is the one where he was told he’d only had 29mins break so the actual offence is being 1 min short of his 45, I can only assume he’d had a 15min & the 30min was one min short.
Whatever the discs ‘said’ if (as written by the copper) he’s exceded 5.2hrs (but less than 5.5hrs) without sufficient break it should be TR68173 & only a £60 fine rather than £120■■
The only thing I can assume from all this is that the dipstick must’ve left his mode switch on other work when he’s been sitting waiting to tip so not registered sufficient breaks, or moved along a queue with the mode on break so interupting a break which must start again?? In theory, you could have 5 or 6 x 15min breaks and only the first 15 counts as the second break MUST be 30 mins??
bigr250:
OK peeps, I’ve now seen the tickets and the info on them is as follows;
The two offences TR68175 ‘exceding 6.5hrs driving’ both with fixed penalty of £200.
One offence, TR68174 the copper has written “drive over 5.2hrs without break” This is the one where he was told he’d only had 29mins break so the actual offence is being 1 min short of his 45, I can only assume he’d had a 15min & the 30min was one min short.
Whatever the discs ‘said’ if (as written by the copper) he’s exceded 5.2hrs (but less than 5.5hrs) without sufficient break it should be TR68173 & only a £60 fine rather than £120■■
The only thing I can assume from all this is that the dipstick must’ve left his mode switch on other work when he’s been sitting waiting to tip so not registered sufficient breaks, or moved along a queue with the mode on break so interupting a break which must start again??
they pointed out some infringements from over 2yrs earlier but then said I’d been pretty clean since,
you keep over 2 years worth of records in the cab?
I used to wen I was an owner driver, the VOSA bloke would say, “do you use your cab as an office”? erm, let me think, I answer no & I get knicked, answer yes & it’s OK, “yes mr VOSA man, I do”!!!
they pointed out some infringements from over 2yrs earlier but then said I’d been pretty clean since,
you keep over 2 years worth of records in the cab?
If you’re on digital then there’s a good chance you do, it depends how much data your driving generates, but it’s not impossible for your digicard or the tacho head to hold that much data in some circumstances.
waynedl:
they pointed out some infringements from over 2yrs earlier but then said I’d been pretty clean since,
you keep over 2 years worth of records in the cab?
It was on my digi card, it’s a discussion that we’ve had on here before when people have claimed they store 28 days, my card went down so I’m on a replacement card, but my previous card was still showing and able to print out the very first time I’d used it which was back in 2007
Digi cards store different amounts of information depending on the actual chip, what type of work you do - town driving in rush hour takes more room to store than 4.5hrs of 55mph motorway driving, and they must store a MINIMUM of 28 days but will store a damned site more.
This was the first time I realised this and after that I put the card into a truck tacho and went back to see how far back I could do a printout. Try it next time you’re in a truck with a digi tacho, just go to printout driver 1, and then change the date as far back as it’ll go, bet you get bored before you find the start
bigr250:
OK peeps, I’ve now seen the tickets and the info on them is as follows;
The two offences TR68175 ‘exceding 6.5hrs driving’ both with fixed penalty of £200.
One offence, TR68174 the copper has written “drive over 5.2hrs without break” This is the one where he was told he’d only had 29mins break so the actual offence is being 1 min short of his 45, I can only assume he’d had a 15min & the 30min was one min short.
Whatever the discs ‘said’ if (as written by the copper) he’s exceded 5.2hrs (but less than 5.5hrs) without sufficient break it should be TR68173 & only a £60 fine rather than £120■■
The only thing I can assume from all this is that the dipstick must’ve left his mode switch on other work when he’s been sitting waiting to tip so not registered sufficient breaks, or moved along a queue with the mode on break so interupting a break which must start again?? In theory, you could have 5 or 6 x 15min breaks and only the first 15 counts as the second break MUST be 30 mins??
Ross.
PS, or I could’ve made all that up
MADBAZ:
I’m very tempted to call bs on this, unless we can see the paperwork, on the face of it (I may well be wrong) but it sounds like your mate and the copper haven’t understood the wtd, you only need 15 minutes rest at the 6 hour point, getting 29 minutes in exceeds this. If he’s trying to get a 30 in for the eu regs that means he’s probably already had a 15 at some point.
I can’t see any offence for not taking a full 15/30/45 minute break, I can see offences for exceeding 4.5 hours (between 5.5 & 6.5 hours = £120 gfp) and exceeding 6.5 hours = £200 gfp. There’s nothing for WTD offences (breaks or hours) in the GFP guide.
You quite rightly say that between 4.5 & 5.5 hours is a £60 gfp not £120.
kr79:
I’m always dubious when I hear of fines like these for what are minor indiscretions as my dealings with vosa even when working for dodgy operators have always been a but of friendly advice and it’s not the end of the world as its the odd silly thing over a period of time.
I’ve heard story’s like it and when you get to the bottom of it there was loads more problems and a big attitude problem. I’ve never been one to now and scrape to old bill or vosa but a bit of speak as you like to be spoken to goes a long way.
Try it next time you’re in a truck with a digi tacho, just go to printout driver 1, and then change the date as far back as it’ll go, bet you get bored before you find the start
I’ll take your word for it!
besides only ever used my digicard 6 times so not much on it!
kr79:
I’m just speaking from experience of my dealings with them.
I wasn’t ‘having a go’ at you, over the years I’ve met plenty of decent ones but the latest generation of VOSA people are no longer ex-mechanic’s, most are direct from the classroom & ALWAYS ‘of a type’!!! You know the sort, a shrug of the shoulders with an “I’m sorry but…”
They’re always the type of people who like to say NO!!!
I’ve found in life that all people fall into one of two catagories, those that like to say YES, & those who prefer to say NO!!! & I can tell you that VOSA must have a questionair that picks out these people with a very good avarage because even the most gregarious & friendly of the current crop of young ‘examiners’ LIKE TO SAY NO!!
Any electronic type of log, Digicard over there or Elog over here requires tye driver to go at least one minute over the legal break because they alway show one minute bellow the time displayed.
