15 points on licence and traffic commissioner

I worked with a Dutch driver who was banned from driving on a weekend, he drove an ADR tanker all week but could not drive a car for leisure purposes.

I know a German guy who used to come home from prison every weekend but had to be back inside by 7am Monday morning. :smiley:

WheelsofCardiff:
Licence will be revoked by the Traffic Commissioner. No matter what he says it wont wash. Always reply a NIP. He probably fobbed them off. 15 points is as good as a 5year ban

Even if it was revoked by the traffic commissioner, the driver can appeal that in the magistrates court, and since the prosecuting judge allowed him to keep it, the magistrate court would likely overrule the commissioner.

Some big misunderstanding shown here over the TCā€™s powers:
The TC is answerable only to the Home Secretary
They deal only with vocational driving issues
The TC cannot act against a drivers licence, but is free to do as they wish with an entitlement
An HGV entitlement is granted and can be taken away by the TC as he/she sees fit.
A non-vocational driver would not automatically lose their driving licence for one instance of being caught using a mobile behind the wheel, but a vocational driver in front of the TC could easily lose their HGV entitlement - the starting point is four weeks but can be higher.
The TC will see a speeding driver as someone that cannot be trusted with the extra responsibilities of driving an HGV and will act against their entitlement in a serious way.

assets.publishing.service.gov.u ā€¦ on_7.0.pdf

Wheel Nut:
I worked with a Dutch driver who was banned from driving on a weekend, he drove an ADR tanker all week but could not drive a car for leisure purposes.

I know a German guy who used to come home from prison every weekend but had to be back inside by 7am Monday morning. :smiley:

I email with a friend on a music forum in the USA who is a traffic cop in Chicago, He has three DUIā€™s in his past but still drives police cruisers :open_mouth:

Zac_A:
Some big misunderstanding shown here over the TCā€™s powers:
The TC is answerable only to the Home Secretary
They deal only with vocational driving issues
The TC cannot act against a drivers licence, but is free to do as they wish with an entitlement
An HGV entitlement is granted and can be taken away by the TC as he/she sees fit.
A non-vocational driver would not automatically lose their driving licence for one instance of being caught using a mobile behind the wheel, but a vocational driver in front of the TC could easily lose their HGV entitlement - the starting point is four weeks but can be higher.
The TC will see a speeding driver as someone that cannot be trusted with the extra responsibilities of driving an HGV and will act against their entitlement in a serious way.

assets.publishing.service.gov.u ā€¦ on_7.0.pdf

If you are referring to my comment, I will add this.

Part IV of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (as amended) gives traffic commissioners the responsibility to consider, based on their conduct, the suitability of drivers who hold, or apply to hold, LGV and/or PCV licences. In the case of LGV holders or applicants ā€œconductā€ refers only to conduct as a driver of a motor vehicle, whilst for PCV holders or applicants it also refers to any other matter relevant to the holding of a PCV licence.
ļ‚· a refusal or failure to grant such a licence; or
ļ‚· the imposition of any limitation on such a licence; or
ļ‚· the suspension or revocation of such a licence; or
ļ‚· an order of disqualification under section 114 (1) of the Act.
27. The Road Traffic Act 1988 gives the holder or an applicant for a heavy goods vehicle or passenger carrying vehicle driverā€™s licence the right to be heard at a conduct hearing before a traffic commissioner who acts on behalf of the Secretary of State.
28. There is a subsequent right of appeal against the following decisions of the traffic commissioner:
29. The appeal is to a Magistratesā€™ or Sheriffā€™s Court depending on where the appellant lives. On considering that appeal the court or sheriff may make such order as it or s/he thinks fit.
30. There are no specific provisions for a stay in relation to vocational drivers. If a driver lodges a complaint in the magistratesā€™ or Sheriff Court by way of appeal then any stay application must in the first instance be directed to them and not
the traffic commissioner. A right of appeal is provided by section 119 of the Road Traffic Act 1988. There is no equivalent power in the Road Traffic Act 1988 to that provided for by section 29(2) of the Goods Vehicle (Licensing of Operatorā€™s) Act 1995 to stay decisions pending appeal but the Magistrates or Sheriff are given power to make ā€œsuch order as it thinks fitā€ā€¦ ā€œon any appealā€ in section 119(3).6

weeto:
If you are referring to my comment, I will add thisā€¦

I wasnā€™t specifically referring to your post, but as youā€™ve taken it that context: Do you honestly believe a magistrate or sherrifā€™s court would ā€œsee fitā€ to give the person under discussion their HGV entitlement back when removed by the TC? If so we will have to agree to differ.

Iā€™d say itā€™s a moot point anyway, even if they did find an employer prepared to give them a chance, which is highly unlikely, I canā€™t see any HGV insurer agreeing to take a chance on the person under discussion.

From an insurance point of view,will he or any Boss be able to get him covered. 15 points is a lot to be putting on an insurance application.
My guess is someone has been keeping silent about having 15 points on his licence,hoping all will blow over with nobody knowing any different.

Sorry - I forgot I asked this.

I agree that the ā€œtotting upā€ system should result in an automatic ban at 12, but thereā€™s no chance of him losing his job - the work we do is rather difficult to recruit for. Unless of course he has his vocational suspended by the TC in which case heā€™ll have to take a break and the boss get his driving gloves out. I believe his ā€œtea and bicciesā€ is this week and itā€™s happening as a ā€œzoomā€ meeting set up by the gaffer in his office as the bloke is not very ā€œtech savvyā€.

He didnā€™t respond to the NIP and later claimed not to have received it due to not living at his address :unamused: , otherwise he would presumably have just got the usual 3 points and Ā£60 or whatever the going rate is. Some people like to make life a little more, er, interesting, I guess.

dekka:
but thereā€™s no chance of him losing his job - the work we do is rather difficult to recruit for.

Stretching the imagination and assuming the decision isnā€™t taken out of the gafferā€™s hands (and that is a big stretch) whatā€™s this work thatā€™s so difficult to recruit for?

Just tell the TC, that just like Prince Andrewā€¦doing that speed was no sweat!

Zac_A:

dekka:
but thereā€™s no chance of him losing his job - the work we do is rather difficult to recruit for.

Stretching the imagination and assuming the decision isnā€™t taken out of the gafferā€™s hands (and that is a big stretch) whatā€™s this work thatā€™s so difficult to recruit for?

Really! - I thought that the worst he would get would be a short temporary suspension rather than have it revoked or even a 3 month or more ban.

And I know that any difficulty in recruitment can be easily solved with more Ā£Ā£ - itā€™s not a big deal job, just a bit niche and low paid.

Can I have his contact number?

Iā€™m in the market for a motorcycleā€¦

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

dekka:
Really! - I thought that the worst he would get would be a short temporary suspension rather than have it revoked or even a 3 month or more ban.

And I know that any difficulty in recruitment can be easily solved with more Ā£Ā£ - itā€™s not a big deal job, just a bit niche and low paid.

More than 12 points equals a disqualification from the courts; minimum 6 months, but can be 12 months. Just saying ā€œDonā€™t ban me, Iā€™ll lose my jobā€ isnā€™t enough (see link) The last driver I knew who brought that situation to me was disqualified for 12 months and (obviously) lost his job - legal prohibition is one of the six reasons for dismissal.
majlaw.co.uk/offences/9-12- ā€¦ conviction.

In addition to the regular (magistrateā€™s) court, the TC can independently act against an HGV drivers entitlement. So if he gets banned by the court, heā€™ll have to apply to the TC to have his HGV entitlement returned when the ban is expired.

If his solicitor somehow persuades the magistrate not to ban him, the TC can still call him to a Driver Conduct Hearing and if he choses to do so, remove his HGV entitlement for whatever period he chooses.

Either way, the driver will need professional legal representation.

For clarification - heā€™s already been through the regular court, they gave him 12 points in addition to his existing 3 and a large fine but did not ban him. His bike and car licence is still his to keep, whether thatā€™s right or not is a separate issue but thatā€™s the way it is.
As others have said the TC decides whether he keeps his vocational licence or whether it is suspended or revoked and for what length of time and thatā€™s what the question was about, as far as I know the TC does not have authority to act against other non LGV or PSV categories on his licence - correct me if Iā€™m wrong.

dekka:
, as far as I know the TC does not have authority to act against other non LGV or PSV categories on his licence - correct me if Iā€™m wrong.

Thatā€™s correct. Iā€™d suggest if he wants the best possible outcome, he pays for a specialist transport solicitor to represent him at the TCs Driver Conduct Hearing.

Well the results are in and he got a 1 week suspension of his vocational licence which i believe has been timed to coincide with a planned week off, presumably so the TC can be seen to be doing something about this heinous crime without actually doing anything.