ROG:
Not sure if the 3 hours that was not counted in the 12 hours off can be counted as daily rest for the next 24 hour period if it falls within that period… hmm… GURU needed…
No Way Rog, you cannot count rest taken before a shift starts and add it to a rest period after the shift ends, never have and never will
Your shift starts, your shift ends, Your Daily Rest begins which must be 9 hrs minimum, you cannot turn around and say, ahh but I was on holiday for a week and I have loads of extra hours spare
Theres nowhere in the legislation that says the Company can enforce a 15 hr shift on the driver, however, there is also nowhere in the regs that it says they cant.
Berewic It’s easy to keep track of, if you started at 6 am yesterday then your 9 or 11 hrs rest must be completed by 6am today, if you start at 7am today you still have only had a 9 hr rest but your next rest period must be completed before 7am tomorrow
If you took a 9 hr rest after working a 14 hrs shift you can start at 5am, but, your next daily rest must be completed before 5am the following day.
Basically it’s a case of using your starting time for the current shift, if you exceed 13 hrs work you cant complete an 11 hr rest if you work less than 13 hrs then you can complete 11 hrs rest without a problem.
The rules changed in 2007, there is no need to make a reduced rest up but as this is a truckers website, the description of a day is 24 hours.
Start time 05.30 finish 19.30 = 14 hours, that 10 hours rest will still only count as 9 and is therefore a reduced period. There are only 3 available between 2 weekly rest periods.
15hrs + 9 = 24 I know so that days 24hr period is legal but there is nothing that says you have to start your next shift at the end of the 24hr period. If your only 3hrs away from where you need to be but got 8hrs to get there after your 9hr rest, what’s the point of getting out of bed at 6am if you don’t need to start till 11am ? If you only take a 9, it’s going to count as a 9 and 2hrs will have to be made up later. If you take more than 11 but less than 24, it counts as an 11hr rest period.
ROG:
Not sure if the 3 hours that was not counted in the 12 hours off can be counted as daily rest for the next 24 hour period if it falls within that period… hmm… GURU needed…
Davey Driver:
No Way Rog, you cannot count rest taken before a shift starts and add it to a rest period after the shift ends, never have and never will
Your shift starts, your shift ends, Your Daily Rest begins which must be 9 hrs minimum, you cannot turn around and say, ahh but I was on holiday for a week and I have loads of extra hours spare
Thanks Davey - I could not think why that couldn’t be done in that way - had a SENIOR MOMENT - of course the 24 hour period starts from when the tacho is started for that shift - DOH !!
Wheel Nut:
The rules changed in 2007, there is no need to make a reduced rest up but as this is a truckers website, the description of a day is 24 hours.
Start time 05.30 finish 19.30 = 14 hours, that 10 hours rest will still only count as 9 and is therefore a reduced period. There are only 3 available between 2 weekly rest periods.
15hrs + 9 = 24 I know so that days 24hr period is legal but there is nothing that says you have to start your next shift at the end of the 24hr period. If your only 3hrs away from where you need to be but got 8hrs to get there after your 9hr rest, what’s the point of getting out of bed at 6am if you don’t need to start till 11am ? If you only take a 9, it’s going to count as a 9 and 2hrs will have to be made up later. If you take more than 11 but less than 24, it counts as an 11hr rest period.
Ye’ I realise that a 10hr break only counts as a 9 but what about a 13hr break, does that count as 9 or 11? As in, I park up at 21.00hrs after a 15hr shift and don’t start the next day until 10.00hrs.
As long as you show a minimum of 9hrs rest within a 24hr period, your within the law but it doesn’t count as a 9 if you don’t start again for 11 or more. The way I see it, if I’ve been parked up for 11hrs or more, I’ve had at least an 11hr rest period.
berewic:
I disagree. If you take your card out, the rest period would be counted from when you finished to when you started again the next day and if it’s 11 or over it counts as 11.
I made that mistake
Which is why I had a SENIOR MOMENT - see last post
It was then clearly pointed out to me that EVERY shift MUST fit into a 24 hour period from when the shift starts.
In EVERY 24 hour shift there MUST be at least an uninterrupted DAILY rest of 9 hours which then only leaves a maximum of 15 hours which can be worked.
There is not a rule that says the max shift is 15 hours - it is only that because of the MINIMUM daily rest requirement.
I used to think that I could do what hours I liked as long as at least 9 rest was had at the end of it - SILLY ME
Luckily, my day runs never got to this point so I never got to foul up
Start 6am finish 9pm - and take 12 hours off before starting next shift at 9am the next day will mean the first 9 hours of that rest counts as a reduced daily rest of 9 hours and the other 3 hours from 6am to 9am counts for NOTHING (exept for your own resting benefit)
berewic:
Ye’ I realise that a 10hr break only counts as a 9 but what about a 13hr break, does that count as 9 or 11? As in, I park up at 21.00hrs after a 15hr shift and don’t start the next day until 10.00hrs.
As long as you show a minimum of 9hrs rest within a 24hr period, your within the law but it doesn’t count as a 9 if you don’t start again for 11 or more. The way I see it, if I’ve been parked up for 11hrs or more, I’ve had at least an 11hr rest period.
To do as you say, a 15 hour shift and parking at 2100 means you started at 6am on day 1. so to be legal you must have taken 9 hours uninterupted rest before 6am on day 2. If you start again at 8am, you have only had a reduced 9 hour break. If you did this then you could only work until 2100 on day 2 to take a full rest period.
There’s a bit in there that says “a rest is an uninterrupted period where a driver my freely dispose of his time” (page 16). I’m interpreting that to say a rest is from when you switch off to when you start the next shift.
It says nothing about the 14hrs or whatever the driver freely spends disposing of his time, being interpreted as a 9 just becouse he worked a 15hr shift the day before. All the examples in here show minimums in a 24hr period and the assumption the driver will start the next 24hr period when the previous 24hr ended.
berewic:
There’s a bit in there that says “a rest is an uninterrupted period where a driver my freely dispose of his time” (page 16). I’m interpreting that to say a rest is from when you switch off to when you start the next shift.
It says nothing about the 14hrs or whatever the driver freely spends disposing of his time, being interpreted as a 9 just becouse he worked a 15hr shift the day before. All the examples in here show minimums in a 24hr period and the assumption the driver will start the next 24hr period when the previous 24hr ended.
It does actually. It is so clear that anyone who doesn’t understand it is maybe in the wrong job.
Article 8
A driver shall take daily and weekly rest periods.
Within each period of 24 hours after the end of the
previous daily rest period or weekly rest period a driver shall
have taken a new daily rest period.
If the portion of the daily rest period which falls within that
24 hour period is at least nine hours but less than 11 hours,
then the daily rest period in question shall be regarded as a
reduced daily rest period.
A daily rest period may be extended to make a regular
weekly rest period or a reduced weekly rest period.
A driver may have at most three reduced daily rest
periods between any two weekly rest periods.
When I first brought out the Driver Hour Guard you would be amazed at the number of drivers who called saying it was wrong because they had taken an 11 hour rest but the timer had stated it was only a 9 hr rest and removed a 9hr segment from the screen.
It was surprising how many drivers thought they could work 13 1\2 hrs and still get an 11 hr rest in
There are only 24 hrs in the day, and from you starting your shift the 24 hrs starts counting down, the simplest way to understand it is as follows:
If you work beyond 13:00:00 (hrs min sec) you cannot achieve a full 11 hrs rest within the 24 hr period, even if you took a rest of 19 hrs, the clock started counting down when you started your shift.
If you clock off before 13:00:00 then you can achieve 11 hrs rest
There’s no if’s or but’s, you either work less than 13:00 hrs or you work more than 13 hrs, if you go beyond 13 hrs its a reduction, unless you had a continuous break of 3 hrs or more during your shift, in which case you have had 12 hrs rest when added to the 9 hrs rest, and it therefore is classed as an 11 hr rest period.
berewic:
There’s a bit in there that says “a rest is an uninterrupted period where a driver my freely dispose of his time” (page 16). I’m interpreting that to say a rest is from when you switch off to when you start the next shift.
CORRECT - a rest is just that BUT only that part of the rest that falls within the 24 hour period from when you started the shift counts towards your LEGAL daily rest
berewic:
It says nothing about the 14hrs or whatever the driver freely spends disposing of his time, being interpreted as a 9 just becouse he worked a 15hr shift the day before. All the examples in here show minimums in a 24hr period and the assumption the driver will start the next 24hr period when the previous 24hr ended.
They cannot show all the senarios and the ones they do show lead the reader to assume just that assumption.
The only thing that is checked is what is actually on the tacho so for this purpose I am going to use discs.
Grab a couple of tacho discs and pen in a couple of 24 hours days, each to have a 15 hour shift - first one with a start time of 0600 and the second disc with a start time of 0800.
Now look at each chart and there will be a 9 hour continous rest period on each.
Thats it - as you cannot start a chart before you start a shift, you cannot put in a rest period before starting.
The fact that the first chart will show the shift ending at 9pm and the second showing that the next shift is starting at 8am is not relevant - which is, I believe, the bit where you are getting mixed up with - it is what is actually shown on each chart that is relevant.
2. Within each period of 24 hours after the end of the previous daily rest period or weekly rest period a driver shall have taken a new daily rest period. If the portion of the daily rest period which falls within that 24 hour period is at least nine hours but less than 11 hours, then the daily rest period in question shall be regarded as a reduced daily rest period.
The bit in blue refers to the rest period actually shown on the chart
berewic:
There’s a bit in there that says “a rest is an uninterrupted period where a driver my freely dispose of his time” (page 16). I’m interpreting that to say a rest is from when you switch off to when you start the next shift.
It says nothing about the 14hrs or whatever the driver freely spends disposing of his time, being interpreted as a 9 just becouse he worked a 15hr shift the day before. All the examples in here show minimums in a 24hr period and the assumption the driver will start the next 24hr period when the previous 24hr ended.
It does actually. It is so clear that anyone who doesn’t understand it is maybe in the wrong job.
Article 8
A driver shall take daily and weekly rest periods.
Within each period of 24 hours after the end of the
previous daily rest period or weekly rest period a driver shall
have taken a new daily rest period.
If the portion of the daily rest period which falls within that
24 hour period is at least nine hours but less than 11 hours,
then the daily rest period in question shall be regarded as a
reduced daily rest period.
A daily rest period may be extended to make a regular
weekly rest period or a reduced weekly rest period.
A driver may have at most three reduced daily rest
periods between any two weekly rest periods.
berewic:
There’s a bit in there that says “a rest is an uninterrupted period where a driver my freely dispose of his time” (page 16). I’m interpreting that to say a rest is from when you switch off to when you start the next shift.
CORRECT - a rest is just that BUT only that part of the rest that falls within the 24 hour period from when you started the shift counts towards your LEGAL daily rest
berewic:
It says nothing about the 14hrs or whatever the driver freely spends disposing of his time, being interpreted as a 9 just becouse he worked a 15hr shift the day before. All the examples in here show minimums in a 24hr period and the assumption the driver will start the next 24hr period when the previous 24hr ended.
They cannot show all the senarios and the ones they do show lead the reader to assume just that assumption.
The only thing that is checked is what is actually on the tacho so for this purpose I am going to use discs.
Grab a couple of tacho discs and pen in a couple of 24 hours days, each to have a 15 hour shift - first one with a start time of 0600 and the second disc with a start time of 0800.
Now look at each chart and there will be a 9 hour continous rest period on each.
Thats it - as you cannot start a chart before you start a shift, you cannot put in a rest period before starting.
The fact that the first chart will show the shift ending at 9pm and the second showing that the next shift is starting at 8am is not relevant - which is, I believe, the bit where you are getting mixed up with - it is what is actually shown on each chart that is relevant.
2. Within each period of 24 hours after the end of the previous daily rest period or weekly rest period a driver shall have taken a new daily rest period. If the portion of the daily rest period which falls within that 24 hour period is at least nine hours but less than 11 hours, then the daily rest period in question shall be regarded as a reduced daily rest period.
The bit in blue refers to the rest period actually shown on the chart
Every time I have been stopped the rest period has been counted from end of shift on one card to the start of shift on the next card. You show me that rest period can only be calculated from one card.
I say again, if I park up at 21.00hrs and don’t start again till 10.00hrs the next day, Ive had 13hrs uninterrupted rest to freely dispose of my time. That counts as an 11hr rest period. It’s got nothing to do with any 24hr period. It says a minimum of 9hrs must be taken within a 24hr period. It does not automatically apply that those nine hours are your rest period, only that you have only shown 9hrs in a 24hr period.
I think we will have to agree to disagree, you can’t show me anywhere a 14hr rest period is reduced to 9hr simply becouse it don’t conveniently fit into the same 24hr period. It’s the length of the “uninterrupted” rest that’s important, not the 24hr period it starts or finishes in.
berewic:
There’s a bit in there that says “a rest is an uninterrupted period where a driver my freely dispose of his time” (page 16). I’m interpreting that to say a rest is from when you switch off to when you start the next shift.
It says nothing about the 14hrs or whatever the driver freely spends disposing of his time, being interpreted as a 9 just becouse he worked a 15hr shift the day before. All the examples in here show minimums in a 24hr period and the assumption the driver will start the next 24hr period when the previous 24hr ended.
It does actually. It is so clear that anyone who doesn’t understand it is maybe in the wrong job.
Article 8
A driver shall take daily and weekly rest periods.
Within each period of 24 hours after the end of the
previous daily rest period or weekly rest period a driver shall
have taken a new daily rest period.
If the portion of the daily rest period which falls within that
24 hour period is at least nine hours but less than 11 hours,
then the daily rest period in question shall be regarded as a
reduced daily rest period.
A daily rest period may be extended to make a regular
weekly rest period or a reduced weekly rest period.
A driver may have at most three reduced daily rest
periods between any two weekly rest periods.
- as you cannot start a chart before you start a shift, you cannot put in a rest period before starting.
