Winseer:
If you’re a night driver - you can try refusing on the grounds of not having opted out of the 10 hour WTD limit on working night shift.
That’s usually on a hiding to nowhere as the opt out is done by agreement of the workforce, not individual employees, and that has been done long before you first set foot in the place.
If you want to work no more than 10 hour shifts on nights - you might like to try firms that have a union prescence, where you can be sure that the 10 hour limit - will be rigidly enforced.
They’re the most likely NOT to have the 10hr limit as they’ll have been badgered by the “we want to opt out because I want to continue to be able to work 80hrs a week” brigade the moment the 10hr limit was first announced.
Depends what your contract says. If it’s something along the lines of 8,9 or 10 hours basic, so 40-50 hours per week contract and the contract says some overtime is expected then no you can’t be made to work 15 hours. Only if your contract that you’ve signed and agreed to actually says in black and white that you agree to work 15 hours. 5 hours over your basic isn’t a reasonable amount of overtime to be forced into doing if you don’t want it. This industry just seems to expect it. Imagine saying to someone sat in an office half way into their shift, oh by the way your staying 5 hours longer tonight working 50% longer than your basic. Erm no it wouldn’t happen would it. Why should that be different for drivers? Just because it’s legal doesn’t mean there should be any obligation to do it.
when they ordered me to take a 9 off after a 15, i always told them NO, cos the law says a driver must have 11 hrs off…there is a BUT…and i never adhered to that.
Winseer:
If you’re a night driver - you can try refusing on the grounds of not having opted out of the 10 hour WTD limit on working night shift.
That’s usually on a hiding to nowhere as the opt out is done by agreement of the workforce, not individual employees, and that has been done long before you first set foot in the place.
If you want to work no more than 10 hour shifts on nights - you might like to try firms that have a union prescence, where you can be sure that the 10 hour limit - will be rigidly enforced.
They’re the most likely NOT to have the 10hr limit as they’ll have been badgered by the “we want to opt out because I want to continue to be able to work 80hrs a week” brigade the moment the 10hr limit was first announced.
Reminds me of a test drive I did for Goldstar coupla years ago.It went well,though I say it myself,even a few auxillary events occuring during the test that put me in a good light on the day.The test driver even hands me a pair of work gloves as if cofirming a shoe,-in scenario…up until I mentioned my reservations at rising before 4am.Email next day…“we had some concerns with your test drive,please try in the future”
Noremac:
I would be inclined to think after a 15, more rest would be required rather than less, so tiredness is the result, it is just a question of if the driver is too tired the next day or not. By the end of two back to back fifteens maybe with 5-6 hours sleep, it is not a question of if the driver will be too tired anymore, the driver will be too tired.
Absolutely agree, it just goes to prove that all this H&S bullcrap is just a pretence.
On one hand you have the pointys actually planning for 9s off,.and on the flip side you have the teararse dicks saying ‘‘I only need 5 hours sleep me, just give me the hours I’m a hero’’. …and so the ridiculous hours some are expected to work with short rests in between, just carrys on being ignored.
The rest of us can see the job for what it really is.
I do 15 hours on a regular basis.
I like to have that shift either the first of the week, with a day off following OR the last shift of a week (with my weekly rest following)
Thus, I look to using 2 out of the 3 I am permitted legally, and like to always keep “one in hand” just in case of an emergency.
Trouble is, if you are due in the following night after what turned out to be an “unplanned” 15 hour shift, - then don’t want the next shift to be another long one as well, whilst not wanting to lose it outright…
A good balance for a week for me would be something like 15-day off-10-10-15-weekly rest because I’d be fully-rested going into each long shift, and can sleep it off on the day off immediately following…
A good balance for a week for me would be something like 15-day off-10-10-15-weekly rest because I’d be fully-rested going into each long shift, and can sleep it off on the day off immediately following…
that looks like a well planned week to me… if I am correct winseer you do agency so is that always available or is it just wishful thinking ?
Winseer:
If you’re a night driver - you can try refusing on the grounds of not having opted out of the 10 hour WTD limit on working night shift.
That’s usually on a hiding to nowhere as the opt out is done by agreement of the workforce, not individual employees, and that has been done long before you first set foot in the place.
If you want to work no more than 10 hour shifts on nights - you might like to try firms that have a union prescence, where you can be sure that the 10 hour limit - will be rigidly enforced.
They’re the most likely NOT to have the 10hr limit as they’ll have been badgered by the “we want to opt out because I want to continue to be able to work 80hrs a week” brigade the moment the 10hr limit was first announced.
Or you could grow a pair of balls
The only way I have ever did 15 is if I was serious delayed
You just have to read some of the posts no wonder we are treated like dirt, doing it for your own benefit every now and then is ok but some thicks look for it every day don’t mind evey week
FFS… i’ve never done a 15, back in the day, I KNOW SIT DOWN YOU YOUNGUNS, double shifts for the right cash were regular. you had to judge for yourself what was safe , I and many others done it . bourdeaux to Gloucester one hit was a weekly regular for me. just the ferry for a break. still alive and kicking. would I do it in todays ■■■■■■■■ world … no. but them days allowed me to retire at 55…
stevieboy308:
There’s absolutely no difference in the legislation to the 2 X extended drives and the 3 X reduced daily rests (that allows the 15 hour shift) there’s 100% nothing in there about either of them being at the driver’s discretion. So you either believe you can’t be planned anything or you can be planned and therefore planned a 15.
The tired thing is a separate argument that applies at any point in the shift, but if you were employing a driver would you think they were suitable if they’re always saying they’re tired?
That said it always works better when there’s a good understanding between you and the employer between what you want and expect and what they want and expect and it’s always gonna work best when those wants and expectations are roughly aligned, but the above is the legal position.
You say planned, but the driver often finds out his run on pitching up in the morning.
I would be inclined to think after a 15, more rest would be required rather than less, so tiredness is the result, it is just a question of if the driver is too tired the next day or not. By the end of two back to back fifteens maybe with 5-6 hours sleep, it is not a question of if the driver will be too tired anymore, the driver will be too tired. If you throw in some heavy handball, I would be seriously worrying about the driver’s welfare.
I think the thinking is it’s better to keep the same starting time as opposed to pushing it back by 2 hours.
It all depends, plenty of driving jobs give plenty of opportunities for sleeping in the shift, and everyone is different, some require less sleep than others.
AdamG21:
I’ve asked a DVSA officer this exact question after a lot of RDC bull**** around this question,
His answer was quite simply…
“They pay your wages so yes”
DVSA officers aren’t trained in employment law and it’s not within his remit so that just his opinion. Yes you can legally do 15s and that all he’s interested in. Whether you have to or not is whether contract says you have to or not. I think most are worded along the lines of some overtime being expected. Some being the key word which at an employment tribunal would be too woolly for them to say they can make you do 15s against your will. Unless the contract that has your signature on it actually says you are expected to work anything up to 3 15 hour shifts and 2 13 hours then you don’t have to. To be honest if anyone signed a contract worded like that your a mug anyway.
DickyNick:
Unless the contract that has your signature on it actually says you are expected to work anything up to 3 15 hour shifts and 2 13 hours then you don’t have to. To be honest if anyone signed a contract worded like that your a mug anyway.
I was loading with one of ours the other night, he says …‘‘■■■■ I was gonna go home and have 11 off, but I’ll be 10 mins over my 13 when I get back to yard,.I’ll just carry on I think, cos I ain’t having 9 off at home’’
I said ‘‘So just go home and still have 11 off’’, he looked at me in disbelief and disgust…and this is how they think, and interpret the rule.
A mixture of brainwash and misguidance. …and I’m convinced this is how firms WANT them to think.
robroy:
A mixture of brainwash and misguidance. …and I’m convinced this is how firms WANT them to think.
I don’t get the economics of it.They want to pay a driver for loads of extra time over the 9-10 hour driving limit to go nowhere.While logically if the wheels ain’t turning the truck isn’t earning.
…and so the ridiculous hours some are expected to work with short rests in between, just carrys on being ignored.
…and I’m convinced this is how firms WANT them to think.