15 hour spread

[carryfast]

kr79:
65 mph at night maybe but what about the day driver who has to contend with the m25 or m6 round Birmingham. That’s where the 15 hour day wins the driver can ever stop and have a break for a bit to let the traffic die down or sit in it your way and lose time.
If running further afield in Europe you may cover a bit more ground on drive only days but will lose it and more due to the French liking a two hour lunch break and our Spanish freinds buggering off for a siesta every afternoon.
And that’s before we get on to having a few collections. Oh I forgot you will sit there waiting for a full load.

So in your world everytime there’s a hold up,regardless of how long it is,just park up and sit there on break until it all starts moving again and then add that to the overall day.It would be interesting to see how that logic will work when you get caught in a zb big jam between service areas with a 9-10 hour driving time limit.Whereas having more driving time and the ability to run at higher speeds would be more useful in that case when you eventually get moving again.

The whole issue of 15 hour days is just mainly one of providing the guvnors,with a way of extending the day,to try to compensate for time lost to unproductive multiple loading and unloading operations etc etc,and the fact remains that driving during the last hours of a 15 hour overall day/spread is more of a risk than driving during the last hours of a 12 hour one.

Although the combination of a 65 mph motorway limit and longer permitted driving time and a max 12 hour overall day would be less of a risk and more productive than what we’ve got now,especially for those who are clever enough to only be doing full load direct long distance work.In which case you can bet that such regs would allow a lot more ground to be covered,on those ‘drive only’ days,than just ‘a bit’.

But there’s no logic in having a 9-10 hour driving time limit if you can still be driving during the last hours of a 15 hour shift.

[carryfast]

taffytrucker:
ok then here was my run on Friday night. Bridgend - Newport pick up trailer - tip at tesco Weybridge round to TDG @ northfleet for reload back to Newport change trailers and back to Bridgend to clock off just under 10 hrs drive and a 14 hour night. Going by CF’s plan i would have stuck in Clacket for a 9 hour break rather then back home therefore costing my boss more money!!! Great Plan CF

So that wouldn’t have been closer to a 12 hour night if you’d have been able to run with a 65 mph motorway limit.The fact is mixing multiple drop/collections loading/unloading operations with a 55 mph speed limit just makes the overall day longer than it needs to be.It’s surprising though that drivers seem to be more interested in the costs to the guvnor than their own responsibilities if/when the idea of 12 hour + shifts goes wrong in the form of the fatigue angle.

[switchlogic]

Carryfast:
Although the combination of a 65 mph motorway limit and longer permitted driving time and a max 12 hour overall day would be less of a risk

especially for those who are clever enough to only be doing full load direct long distance work…

So, faster speed and more driving makes for less risk? Your lack of logic is startling.

As for clever enough eh? If clever means having a driving career as dull and boring as yours then I’ll happily remain stupid. Not all of us aspire to the dull life you seem to want and have had.

[switchlogic]

Carryfast:
.It’s surprising though that drivers seem to be more interested in the costs to the guvnor than their own responsibilities if/when the idea of 12 hour + shifts goes wrong in the form of the fatigue angle.

If we all had your attitude to costs none of us would have any work as everyone would have gone under and also as has been pointed out time and time and time again most of us can cope with 15 hours. I know you can’t but then I reckon there’s not much you could cope with. As has been pointed out in many cases a 15 hour day can actually be much less stressful. I don’t want to do an hours more driving thanks. Or 65. Both actually would increase the risk, not lower it and I find it so hard to believe that you just can’t see that.

[wheel_nut]

there are as many pages as there are hours in three extended days, what the main proponent of his ideals is missing are how flexible the current drivers hours regulations are.

The five year old rules allow a driver to split a shift so he can use a ferry, they allow him to stop long enough for a meal and a shower in the heat of the day. They allow a driver to get home after a few weeks away from his family, or they allow a planner to ensure an urgent delivery can be there on time. I don’t mean a late delivery of baked beans, but a broken engine on a ship has to have urgent spare parts available in a far away port when the ship arrives.

In this post his blessed unions don’t agree with carrycot, neither do the majority of the replies on this thread.

what has come out of this thread is the times he has been proven wrong, the times he has argued with his guvnors and the times he has never got past interview stage of any decent job and still puts it down to bad luck.

I think the lucky ones were these guvnors and gaffers he has told how to do the job in the past.

[davepenn54]

And what have we learnt from this 15 page thread :-

1. Yes you can be planned a 15hr day and that the majority of us drivers can cope with it quite easily.

2. The current hours & tacho regs; aren’t ideal but they are flexible and a lot less demanding or restrictive than they were in the 70/80’s with 12.5 spreadovers and limited time off.

3. It is only dodgy company’s and drivers that risk doing too much these day’s because the penalty’s are just too severe for the actual ‘crime’ committed.

4. And finally any thread that Carryfast gets involved in turns into a marathon of tooing and froing with him totally not willing to concede any point when he is clearly wrong in his thinking.

Really haven’t got the patience to contribute to this one anymore so that’s me outta here, I’m looking for another job Oh god no my 15hr shifts are easier

Stay safe guys
Regards
Dave Penn;

[longman5978]

Carryfast:

taffytrucker:
ok then here was my run on Friday night. Bridgend - Newport pick up trailer - tip at tesco Weybridge round to TDG @ northfleet for reload back to Newport change trailers and back to Bridgend to clock off just under 10 hrs drive and a 14 hour night. Going by CF’s plan i would have stuck in Clacket for a 9 hour break rather then back home therefore costing my boss more money!!! Great Plan CF

So that wouldn’t have been closer to a 12 hour night if you’d have been able to run with a 65 mph motorway limit.The fact is mixing multiple drop/collections loading/unloading operations with a 55 mph speed limit just makes the overall day longer than it needs to be.It’s surprising though that drivers seem to be more interested in the costs to the guvnor than their own responsibilities if/when the idea of 12 hour + shifts goes wrong in the form of the fatigue angle.

To be interested in the costs of the boss does not make us bad drivers, understanding of costs incurred after my stint in a traffic office actually made me a better driver, i understand that if a driver does give a toss about covering another little collection after being on shift for 11 hours which then saves the boss hiring an agency driver for example and having to pay him std 8 hours for 2/3 hours work, keeping the customer happy and willing to come back again for bigger and better paying jobs all resulting in the boss making more money which then in turn safe guards his drivers and their jobs!!! People like u cf and your constant ‘no I won’t do it cus I’ve done 10 hours already’ results in your bosses turning down work or hiring expensive agency staff to cover 4 hours for the price of 8 at an extra hourly pay is what helps people give up or lose business’s! It’s not rocket science but then again if u have worked for the council am I really not surprised that u would like 4 people to do the job of 1 ‘real worker’ !! Oh and by travelling at 65 mph in an hour u only cover an extra 9/10 miles than me, not exactly a great distance is it and that’s all hoping that u have a clear run and that probably happens every time u get behind the wheel in your little world!

Longman.

[carryfast]

switchlogic:

Carryfast:
.It’s surprising though that drivers seem to be more interested in the costs to the guvnor than their own responsibilities if/when the idea of 12 hour + shifts goes wrong in the form of the fatigue angle.

If we all had your attitude to costs none of us would have any work as everyone would have gone under and also as has been pointed out time and time and time again most of us can cope with 15 hours. I know you can’t but then I reckon there’s not much you could cope with. As has been pointed out in many cases a 15 hour day can actually be much less stressful. I don’t want to do an hours more driving thanks. Or 65. Both actually would increase the risk, not lower it and I find it so hard to believe that you just can’t see that.

It’s not really surprising that you seem to think it’s all about can and can’t rather than just one of risk calculations.It’s obvious that you’re probably not best qualified in making a reasoned judgement,as to the potential risks involved,concerning the question of driving over the course of longer hours,compared to running a bit faster than the ridiculous eu speed limiter setting,to get the job done sooner,with a bit of extra driving time if it’s needed,over the course of a 12 hour shift.

Although it’s not surprising that the eu would be following your logic and advice on the subject.

[carryfast]

Longman5978:

Carryfast:

taffytrucker:
ok then here was my run on Friday night. Bridgend - Newport pick up trailer - tip at tesco Weybridge round to TDG @ northfleet for reload back to Newport change trailers and back to Bridgend to clock off just under 10 hrs drive and a 14 hour night. Going by CF’s plan i would have stuck in Clacket for a 9 hour break rather then back home therefore costing my boss more money!!! Great Plan CF

So that wouldn’t have been closer to a 12 hour night if you’d have been able to run with a 65 mph motorway limit.The fact is mixing multiple drop/collections loading/unloading operations with a 55 mph speed limit just makes the overall day longer than it needs to be.It’s surprising though that drivers seem to be more interested in the costs to the guvnor than their own responsibilities if/when the idea of 12 hour + shifts goes wrong in the form of the fatigue angle.

To be interested in the costs of the boss does not make us bad drivers, understanding of costs incurred after my stint in a traffic office actually made me a better driver, i understand that if a driver does give a toss about covering another little collection after being on shift for 11 hours which then saves the boss hiring an agency driver for example and having to pay him std 8 hours for 2/3 hours work, keeping the customer happy and willing to come back again for bigger and better paying jobs all resulting in the boss making more money which then in turn safe guards his drivers and their jobs!!! People like u cf and your constant ‘no I won’t do it cus I’ve done 10 hours already’ results in your bosses turning down work or hiring expensive agency staff to cover 4 hours for the price of 8 at an extra hourly pay is what helps people give up or lose business’s! It’s not rocket science but then again if u have worked for the council am I really not surprised that u would like 4 people to do the job of 1 ‘real worker’ !! Oh and by travelling at 65 mph in an hour u only cover an extra 9/10 miles than me, not exactly a great distance is it and that’s all hoping that u have a clear run and that probably happens every time u get behind the wheel in your little world!

Longman.

By travelling at 65 mph over the course of a shift wherever possible it will work out at a lot more than 9-10 miles at the end of a 12 hour shift with more than the current driving time limit on top of that and a lot more when that’s multiplied over the course of a week.

However it’s surprising that in the rush to do enough for the guvnor that drivers seem to forget that if/when driving during the last hours of a 15 hour shift all goes wrong it’s the driver who goes to jail,if he survives uninjured,not the guvnor.

[switchlogic]

Carryfast:
It’s obvious that you’re probably not best qualified in making a reasoned judgement

Great example of the pot calling the kettle black there. You wouldn’t know a reasoned judgement if it came and slapped you in the face. Your a kneejerk reactionary. Besides I’m better qualified than you. Least my career had had enough variety to have some idea of what I’m talking about, unlike your misinformed crap stemming from a dull and boring life doing ‘long distance’ back and forth to Leeds

Carryfast:
Although it’s not surprising that the eu would be following your logic and advice on the subject.

Errrr no. I think you’ll find they aren’t following my logic. Despite what your confused mind may tell you I personally have no sway over the EU legislators so am certainly not ‘advising’ them.

[switchlogic]

Carryfast:
By travelling at 65 mph over the course of a shift wherever possible it will work out at a lot more than 9-10 miles at the end of a 12 hour shift with more than the current driving time limit on top of that and a lot more when that’s multiplied over the course of a week.

Come on then you still haven’t explained your logic here, or lack of. More driving hours at faster speeds and a ‘lot more’ driving and miles ‘over the course of a week’ makes it safer how exactly? Surely you must see how nuts you sound. If you were just arguing for a shorter day then you could use the safety card but not with your current hair brained idea. Your so nuts it’s hilarious.

[carryfast]

Wheel Nut:
there are as many pages as there are hours in three extended days, what the main proponent of his ideals is missing are how flexible the current drivers hours regulations are.

The five year old rules allow a driver to split a shift so he can use a ferry, they allow him to stop long enough for a meal and a shower in the heat of the day. They allow a driver to get home after a few weeks away from his family, or they allow a planner to ensure an urgent delivery can be there on time. I don’t mean a late delivery of baked beans, but a broken engine on a ship has to have urgent spare parts available in a far away port when the ship arrives.

In this post his blessed unions don’t agree with carrycot, neither do the majority of the replies on this thread.

what has come out of this thread is the times he has been proven wrong, the times he has argued with his guvnors and the times he has never got past interview stage of any decent job and still puts it down to bad luck.

I think the lucky ones were these guvnors and gaffers he has told how to do the job in the past.

I think that in regards to the issue of knowing the risks involved,in driving during the course of long hours,all (except the example related to the general haulage job that was the subject of the similar argument to the one here as previously referred to in the discussion ) of the jobs I had were ‘decent’ ones and even that example agreed with my point of view eventually although by then I decided that I was better off out of there.

On the issue of unions,their position,in relation to the issues of the tanker drivers,concerning working hours,terms,and conditions,makes no sense,assuming that the union also supports the idea of enforced 15 hour spreads.Which seems to be the same logic as the eu is using to justify a 9-10 hour driving limit while also allowing a situation in which drivers can be instructed to drive during the last hours of a 15 hour shift.

[carryfast]

switchlogic:

Carryfast:
By travelling at 65 mph over the course of a shift wherever possible it will work out at a lot more than 9-10 miles at the end of a 12 hour shift with more than the current driving time limit on top of that and a lot more when that’s multiplied over the course of a week.

Come on then you still haven’t explained your logic here, or lack of. More driving hours at faster speeds and a ‘lot more’ driving and miles ‘over the course of a week’ makes it safer how exactly? Surely you must see how nuts you sound. If you were just arguing for a shorter day then you could use the safety card but not with your current hair brained idea. Your so nuts it’s hilarious.

I think you’ve missed the point that in my view driving time limits are just that not targets although it all seems to be a difference in view between the issue of wether fatigue is all about hours spent actually driving or the hours actually spent in the course of an overall working day.In which case as I’ve said let the eu officials and the union leaders drive a truck over the last 4.5 hours of a 30 hour shift during which around 24 hours of that time was spent playing cards.

However assuming that you’ve been educated to at least a junior school level of maths it’s obvious that a 12 hour overall working day/spread would be shorter than a 15 hour one.However if a change from 55 mph to 65 mph would be as dangerous as you seem to think it is it’s surprising how many drivers actually survived all those years when trucks were regularly driven here at around that speed on motorways and bearing in mind that the actual domestic motorway speed limit is still 60 mph.

[switchlogic]

Carryfast:

switchlogic:

Carryfast:
By travelling at 65 mph over the course of a shift wherever possible it will work out at a lot more than 9-10 miles at the end of a 12 hour shift with more than the current driving time limit on top of that and a lot more when that’s multiplied over the course of a week.

Come on then you still haven’t explained your logic here, or lack of. More driving hours at faster speeds and a ‘lot more’ driving and miles ‘over the course of a week’ makes it safer how exactly? Surely you must see how nuts you sound. If you were just arguing for a shorter day then you could use the safety card but not with your current hair brained idea. Your so nuts it’s hilarious.

I think you’ve missed the point that in my view driving time limits are just that not targets although it all seems to be a difference in view between the issue of wether fatigue is all about hours spent actually driving or the hours actually spent in the course of an overall working day.In which case as I’ve said let the eu officials and the union leaders drive a truck over the last 4.5 hours of a 30 hour shift during which around 24 hours of that time was spent playing cards.

However assuming that you’ve been educated to at least a junior school level of maths it’s obvious that a 12 hour overall working day/spread would be shorter than a 15 hour one.However if a change from 55 mph to 65 mph would be as dangerous as you seem to think it is it’s surprising how many drivers actually survived all those years when trucks were regularly driven here at around that speed on motorways and bearing in mind that the actual domestic motorway speed limit is still 60 mph.

So why were you arguing that more driving and more miles and more hours will be driven then if you don’t consider it a target? And yes a 12 hour working day is shorter than 15 but time and time and time again you’ve missed multiple posters saying your way would make for a more stressful working day. The most tiring part of a working day is the driving yet you seem to disagree for some bonkers reason. I don’t find eating lunch or reading or having a nap particularly tiring. Another hours driving is obviously more tiring than a couple of hours on the bunk having a nap. You also seem to miss the point that drivers driving for longer hours at higher speeds doing more miles will quite logically have more accidents. It’s hard to have an accident while napping on the bunk or eating lunch. You just don’t understand because you don’t live in the real world that doing it your way would lead to a much more stressful day and a lot less breaks during the day, because in the real world doing real jobs people are put under pressure to use their available driving hours. Either by their employer or themselves trying to get home or somewhere nice to park up, both of which would become a lot harder under your rules. As it is now if I’m feeling a little tired on the way to the ferry I can stop for a nap or a coffee break. Under your ideas this would become much less likely. As for telling the boss where to go you forget some of us live in the real world with real jobs, ferries to catch, delivery times, homes and families to get to. It’s not going faster that will help, it’s flexibility in hours. I mean did you ever load or unload trailers? We dont all trunk ‘long distance’ between depots swapping trailers. As for 65 I think you’ll find the roads are massively busier now that when you were a driver. I find slower a lot less stressful.

Your like a rubbish politician, you engage in the politics of opposition. You disagree with people all the time and think you know best but you never have any reasonable ideas as to how problems could be overcome. Your like a stuck record, 12 hours/65 mph. Well maybe not so much like a stuck record as your very inconsistent in places. Come up with some reasonable ideas about how to overcome the problems encountered when the flexibility in hours is removed and people may listen. But you’ll just come back like that stuck record, boring and repetitive, just like your driving carreer.

[longman5978]

If driving at the end of a 15 hour shift I would know if it was all going wrong and would not keep driving to the point of it all going wrong I.e tiredness/fatigue was setting in. U keep plodding on at 65 as day in day out and I will watch u or cars/vans doing the same, lane jumping etc and when I come to a stand still or come off at a jcn and catch them up at a set of red lights I will laugh, as where did all the rushing get any1, when wagons could drive round at 60/65mph and it didn’t cause a problem there was of course a lot less traffic on the roads!

Longman.

[longman5978]

Carryfast:

Longman5978:

Carryfast:

taffytrucker:
ok then here was my run on Friday night. Bridgend - Newport pick up trailer - tip at tesco Weybridge round to TDG @ northfleet for reload back to Newport change trailers and back to Bridgend to clock off just under 10 hrs drive and a 14 hour night. Going by CF’s plan i would have stuck in Clacket for a 9 hour break rather then back home therefore costing my boss more money!!! Great Plan CF

So that wouldn’t have been closer to a 12 hour night if you’d have been able to run with a 65 mph motorway limit.The fact is mixing multiple drop/collections loading/unloading operations with a 55 mph speed limit just makes the overall day longer than it needs to be.It’s surprising though that drivers seem to be more interested in the costs to the guvnor than their own responsibilities if/when the idea of 12 hour + shifts goes wrong in the form of the fatigue angle.

To be interested in the costs of the boss does not make us bad drivers, understanding of costs incurred after my stint in a traffic office actually made me a better driver, i understand that if a driver does give a toss about covering another little collection after being on shift for 11 hours which then saves the boss hiring an agency driver for example and having to pay him std 8 hours for 2/3 hours work, keeping the customer happy and willing to come back again for bigger and better paying jobs all resulting in the boss making more money which then in turn safe guards his drivers and their jobs!!! People like u cf and your constant ‘no I won’t do it cus I’ve done 10 hours already’ results in your bosses turning down work or hiring expensive agency staff to cover 4 hours for the price of 8 at an extra hourly pay is what helps people give up or lose business’s! It’s not rocket science but then again if u have worked for the council am I really not surprised that u would like 4 people to do the job of 1 ‘real worker’ !! Oh and by travelling at 65 mph in an hour u only cover an extra 9/10 miles than me, not exactly a great distance is it and that’s all hoping that u have a clear run and that probably happens every time u get behind the wheel in your little world!

Longman.

By travelling at 65 mph over the course of a shift wherever possible it will work out at a lot more than 9-10 miles at the end of a 12 hour shift with more than the current driving time limit on top of that and a lot more when that’s multiplied over the course of a week.

However it’s surprising that in the rush to do enough for the guvnor that drivers seem to forget that if/when driving during the last hours of a 15 hour shift all goes wrong it’s the driver who goes to jail,if he survives uninjured,not the guvnor.

my line reads at travelling at 65mph in an hour not a shift or a week or a month or a year ‘IN AN HOUR’ you would only cover 9/10 miles extra all depending on traffic. Sorry but I will try and keep it a bit more simple for you!!!

Longman.

[billybigrig]

Carryfast:
I think you’ve missed the point that in my view driving time limits are just that not targets although it all seems to be a difference in view between the issue of wether fatigue is all about hours spent actually driving or the hours actually spent in the course of an overall working day.In which case as I’ve said let the eu officials and the union leaders drive a truck over the last 4.5 hours of a 30 hour shift during which around 24 hours of that time was spent playing cards.

so we’re talking about a 30 hour day now or is that just more extrapolated bull[zb] from you as try to find some way to prove the world wrong

However assuming that you’ve been educated to at least a junior school level of maths it’s obvious that a 12 hour overall working day/spread would be shorter than a 15 hour one.However if a change from 55 mph to 65 mph would be as dangerous as you seem to think it is it’s surprising how many drivers actually survived all those years when trucks were regularly driven here at around that speed on motorways and bearing in mind that the actual domestic motorway speed limit is still 60 mph.

Which is all well and good if you spend your life on motorways and they have no traffic on them, unfortunately that’s not an average drivers day now is it ?.
So please tell me what exactly is so dangerous about driving the last 4.5 hours of a 15 hour shift ? Am I missing the mass crashing of drivers who simply collapse at the wheel after 10.5 hours ?.

Here’s an example of mine from last week …

Having a 9:30 load in Hull I started at 5:45, starting my drive at 06:00 in order to miss the Leeds rush and inevitable stressful/tiring stop start crawl.
Knowing the last couple of miles into Hull are congested in the rush hour I stopped short at 08:30 for breakfast.
09:15 I run the last 15 mins into the loading point.
loading takes some time but it’s nothing to do with me so after 15 mins of chatting and setting up I retire to the cab for a read and snooze.
12:15 - 12:30 is taken with securing it, then it’s off I go to South Wales
14:00 - 14:30 I take a break for snacks, bathroom, coffee and a quick load check.
I push on to miss the Birmingham rush.
16:45 - 17:45 another break for Tea, I’m in no rush as I want to ensure the M4 rush is gone when I get there

In Crazy fast land I could only have got further if I had cut my breaks back and started later(incurring the Leeds rush)
However in the real world a clear run now into Pont Abraham services for about 20:15 and after post trip/load check etc I book off at 20:30

No sweat, no hassle, well rested from a well executed 14:45 day. Feeling like I’d barely done half a day by missing all the truly tiring aspects of a driving day

A 12 hour day would of been less productive and infinitely more tiring

The next day was 11 hours long and included 7 hours driving. None on motorways and at most an hours worth of duals, so exactly how would 65 mph have helped that day ■■?

In simple maths, 11 hours at 65mph = 715 miles and 10 at 56mph = 560 miles.
In the real world nobody actually spends all day at top speed. The majority of roads are not motorways and so your increase offers no such advantage. At best you may be an hour further up the road but you will of burned way more fuel than it was worth for the privilege. Of course if you’re on your 12th hour then potentially the 56mph truck may well be an hour or 2 even further up the road by utilising the flexibility to maximise your day as exampled above

Now here’s the challenge >> Try and answer this by providing evidence, not opinion. Back up your argument with examples, facts and experience. If you must, and most likely will, rehash the same old tripe about how dangerous it is to drive the last 4.5 of a 15 then back that up with something.

[carryfast]

switchlogic:

Carryfast:

switchlogic:

Carryfast:
By travelling at 65 mph over the course of a shift wherever possible it will work out at a lot more than 9-10 miles at the end of a 12 hour shift with more than the current driving time limit on top of that and a lot more when that’s multiplied over the course of a week.

Come on then you still haven’t explained your logic here, or lack of. More driving hours at faster speeds and a ‘lot more’ driving and miles ‘over the course of a week’ makes it safer how exactly? Surely you must see how nuts you sound. If you were just arguing for a shorter day then you could use the safety card but not with your current hair brained idea. Your so nuts it’s hilarious.

I think you’ve missed the point that in my view driving time limits are just that not targets although it all seems to be a difference in view between the issue of wether fatigue is all about hours spent actually driving or the hours actually spent in the course of an overall working day.In which case as I’ve said let the eu officials and the union leaders drive a truck over the last 4.5 hours of a 30 hour shift during which around 24 hours of that time was spent playing cards.

However assuming that you’ve been educated to at least a junior school level of maths it’s obvious that a 12 hour overall working day/spread would be shorter than a 15 hour one.However if a change from 55 mph to 65 mph would be as dangerous as you seem to think it is it’s surprising how many drivers actually survived all those years when trucks were regularly driven here at around that speed on motorways and bearing in mind that the actual domestic motorway speed limit is still 60 mph.

So why were you arguing that more driving and more miles and more hours will be driven then of you don’t consider it a target? And yes a 12 hour working day is shorter than 15 but time and time and time again you’ve missed multiple posters saying your way would make for a more stressful working day. The most tiring part of a working day is the driving yet you seem to disagree for some bonkers reason. I don’t find eating lunch or reading or having a nap particularly tiring. Another hours driving is obviously more tiring than a couple of hours on the bunk having a nap. You also seem to miss the point that drivers driving for longer hours at higher speeds doing more miles will quite logically have more accidents.

So in your world the overall hours involved in a shift don’t matter a zb it’s all about the driving time therefore driving during the last 4.5 hours of a 15 hour overall shift doesn’t matter and is less of a risk than driving for more hours during the course of a shorter 12 hour overall shift,just so long as the driving time fits into the ridiculous eu driving time limits and the rest of the time was spent doing other work,eating,reading etc etc.

Although that’s not surprising considering your ideas and attitudes,to the issues of the risks regarding long hours when ‘mixed’ with driving,according to your previous posts and taken to their logical conclusion.Therefore it’s not surprising that also didn’t see any risk in mixing driving with even longer overall hours.

As I’ve said maybe the eu officials would like to take the idea to it’s logical conclusion by driving a truck for the last 4.5 hours of a 30 hour shift in which at least 24 hours of that shift involved nothing more than playing cards,reading,eating etc etc.

[carryfast]

billybigrig:

Carryfast:
I think you’ve missed the point that in my view driving time limits are just that not targets although it all seems to be a difference in view between the issue of wether fatigue is all about hours spent actually driving or the hours actually spent in the course of an overall working day.In which case as I’ve said let the eu officials and the union leaders drive a truck over the last 4.5 hours of a 30 hour shift during which around 24 hours of that time was spent playing cards.

so we’re talking about a 30 hour day now or is that just more extrapolated bull[zb] from you as try to find some way to prove the world wrong

No it’s just the idea,of it only being driving time that matters and the overall time spent during the day won’t make any difference to the issues of the risk of fatigue,taken to it’s logical conclusion.

[switchlogic]

Carryfast:

billybigrig:

Carryfast:
I think you’ve missed the point that in my view driving time limits are just that not targets although it all seems to be a difference in view between the issue of wether fatigue is all about hours spent actually driving or the hours actually spent in the course of an overall working day.In which case as I’ve said let the eu officials and the union leaders drive a truck over the last 4.5 hours of a 30 hour shift during which around 24 hours of that time was spent playing cards.

so we’re talking about a 30 hour day now or is that just more extrapolated bull[zb] from you as try to find some way to prove the world wrong

No it’s just the idea,of it only being driving time that matters and the overall time spent during the day won’t make any difference to the issues of the risk of fatigue,taken to it’s logical conclusion.

Jesus that’s a perfect bit of politician speak. You’ve literally said absolutely nothing there.