12.2%, funny, but no mention on here yet?

The-Snowman:

Norfolkinclue1:
Even the members can’t be bothered, must have finally realised what actually happens to those subs and what the sacred leader actually cares about eh?

Norfolkinclue1:
Although to be fair, maybe the other 87.8% of the spineless brainwashed muppets just didn’t get this months email on what to think and say?

Make your mind up
They either didnt vote because they realise there’s no point or they didnt vote because they are brainwashed
If youre going to go off on a rant, at least be consistent
Although I like the way you spouted the cliche of anyone who doesnt follow your way of thinking as being brainwashed. Perish the thought people could freely make their own mind up and there viewpoint just happens to differ from yours.

Funny that, I also picked up on that point.
Also how exactly does the ‘spineless’ bit come into it?
How does not voting, especially as it’s anon/secret ballot, make them spineless exactly? :neutral_face:

ThrustMaster:

bobbya:

AndrewG:
Never have belonged to any union, all workshy layabouts intent in putting a spanner in the works at every opportunity…

Disappointed,you normally talk sense.

+1

I’m in a union because I’m disabled.
So when the management including the company owner, park their cars in the only disabled parking space, who is going to help me stop the disability discrimination in the workplace?

That’s not discrimination, it’s just plain ignorance

The-Snowman:

Norfolkinclue1:
Even the members can’t be bothered, must have finally realised what actually happens to those subs and what the sacred leader actually cares about eh?

Norfolkinclue1:
Although to be fair, maybe the other 87.8% of the spineless brainwashed muppets just didn’t get this months email on what to think and say?

Make your mind up
They either didnt vote because they realise there’s no point or they didnt vote because they are brainwashed
If youre going to go off on a rant, at least be consistent
Although I like the way you spouted the cliche of anyone who doesnt follow your way of thinking as being brainwashed. Perish the thought people could freely make their own mind up and there viewpoint just happens to differ from yours. That doesnt make you look like a tin foil hat wearing nutjob at all

Errrr?

In my world of English when I typed “Although to be fair, maybe” I would think that read as I was to offer up a second option to the first I suggested, not an opposite.
Please tell me where I posted “my way of thinking”, I didn’t, so I am not spouting cliches. My way of thinking is mine, no one else’s and thats it really. I can, last time I checked,have an opinion.
Thanks for trying to paint anyone who doesn’t follow the union code as a nutter, kind of says it all, sadly from someone who’s posts I find rather good normally. Union is as union does. The freedom of choice that you mention is massively ironic, yes you’re free to choose, I never mentioned you should think like me,however surely at the point when you exercise that very freedom to join a union your freedom of choices just evaporated?

Oh and Rob, to answer your two points…

  1. Always tried to work for decent small to medium outfits including on my own on vans around Europe and North Africa when the opportunity arose.Whenever I got the feeling things were going to change for the worse I would put things in place to change rather than leave it too late and jump into the unknown leaving me to have to take anything no matter what. Also because I have a family to support I want to be in a position where the money and job are consistent.

  2. Nope, never ever have been,all will be, one of those who says yes sir yes sir. Would never work for a company that expected it or treated drivers or any other staff like that.
    I thinks it’s those yes sir types that would go for a union, they pay the money for someone else to think for them as they can’t think for themselves and sort things out for themselves.

Yes my views are very strongly anti union, but that’s in the modern workplace. I do understand what they did when they first started, but that was needed back then.
I genuinely am astonished at the turn out and now more so by commments on here from members who didn’t even know about it, hope it’s a wake up call for them about what the union has been peddling to them and what they are actually bothered about.

As an aside can I say that I feel honoured that carryfast has contributed to a topic I began and can I suggest that in the light of the upcoming General Election we start a justgiving page for him to raise money for some spare keyboards as I fear he will need them…

Norfolkinclue1:
Errrr?In my world of English when I typed “Although to be fair, maybe” I would think that read as I was to offer up a second option to the first I suggested, not an opposite.
Please tell me where I posted “my way of thinking”, I didn’t, so I am not spouting cliches. My way of thinking is mine, no one else’s and thats it really. I can, last time I checked,have an opinion.
Thanks for trying to paint anyone who doesn’t follow the union code as a nutter, kind of says it all, sadly from someone who’s posts I find rather good normally. Union is as union does.

Calling everyone brainwashed muppets is kind of planting your flag on one side of the debate. And using name calling to demonstrate it is not the actions of someone who is simply spouting an opinion, nor is it the actions of someone who is simply offering a second option. Its the actions of someone who doesnt like unions and thinks only his view on them is the correct one and anyone who doesnt also think it is a sheep. Its a standard cliche of anyone who hates “the establishment”. Anyone can have an opinion but insults and name calling goes beyond that.
For what its worth, I agree with you re unions to a certain degree. I dont particularly like them either and I am of the opinion they are highly corrupt and a large envelope stuffed with money through the right letterbox is all thats needed for them to play ball with companies but thats just my opinion and I certainly dont feel the need to name call and insult anyone who feels different.
And I didnt paint anyone who doesnt follow the union line as a nutter. I didnt even call you a nutter. I said you came across as a conspiracy theorist nutter with your angry and aggressive original post and name calling anyone who does believe in the good of a union, for whatever reason they have. Twisting what I said doesnt help your case much

I’ll just leave this here! :wink:

Evil8Beezle:
I’ll just leave this here! :wink:

Twice in two days, offside :laughing:

Evil8Beezle:
I’ll just leave this here! :wink:

That’s brilliant! I wish I knew both how to post those and indeed where to find them.
No axe to grind, just a very strong opinion, never been in a union or needed one or left myself in a position to indeed need one. Maybe people’s poor choice of employer makes them feel like they need one, at which point my question would be " why are you even there?"
Clearly Snowman finds issue with my choice of language but hey ho, i won’t bite on the nutter issue, or tin foil hat wearing nut job as he said in his post, it will just go on and on and become tedious. We clearly are from very different sides of the fence.Suffice to say I have my view and indeed labels for those that need a union in there lives in place of what they feel they can’t do for themselves as a grown adult ( is that a little less offensive for you Snowman?)
Anyway, I’m off to enjoy the weekend as it’s sunny. I don’t want to get drawn into arguments about posting style and insults, I thought this was a place that could handle a rant or two with a bit of choice language, I was wrong. It’s becoming more like mumsnet everyday, your choice of elocution shouldn’t be used as reason to ignore or indeed dismiss your point in my world
My view will never change on this particular issue.

OVLOV JAY:
[Twice in two days, offside :laughing:

Different forum, so it’s allowed. :smiley:
And if the fits… :wink:

Norfolkinclue1:
No axe to grind, just a very strong opinion, never been in a union or needed one or left myself in a position to indeed need one. Maybe people’s poor choice of employer makes them feel like they need one, at which point my question would be " why are you even there?"
Clearly Snowman finds issue with my choice of language but hey ho, i won’t bite on the nutter issue, or tin foil hat wearing nut job as he said in his post, it will just go on and on and become tedious. We clearly are from very different sides of the fence.Suffice to say I have my view and indeed labels for those that need a union in there lives in place of what they feel they can’t do for themselves as a grown adult ( is that a little less offensive for you Snowman?)
Anyway, I’m off to enjoy the weekend as it’s sunny. I don’t want to get drawn into arguments about posting style and insults, I thought this was a place that could handle a rant or two with a bit of choice language, I was wrong. It’s becoming more like mumsnet everyday, your choice of elocution shouldn’t be used as reason to ignore or indeed dismiss your point in my world
My view will never change on this particular issue.

I must confess that I’m a little confused as to why you’re so anti union, when you say you’ve never needed one, or had any experience of one?

Myself I’m a little conflicted, as in principle I think they are a good thing, I just don’t think they work unfortunately for reasons George Orwell has made clear.

OVLOV JAY:

ThrustMaster:

bobbya:

AndrewG:
Never have belonged to any union, all workshy layabouts intent in putting a spanner in the works at every opportunity…

Disappointed,you normally talk sense.

+1

I’m in a union because I’m disabled.
So when the management including the company owner, park their cars in the only disabled parking space, who is going to help me stop the disability discrimination in the workplace?

That’s not discrimination, it’s just plain ignorance

or arrogance? :grimacing:

Norfolkinclue1:
So come on all you loud union boys, explain that?
12.2% turn out, a 6% of the vote for “victory” ?
Yeah, those unions are brilliant. We all look out for each other you know. One for all etc etc.
What a [zb] embarrassment. Even the members can’t be bothered, must have finally realised what actually happens to those subs and what the sacred leader actually cares about eh?
Although to be fair, maybe the other 87.8% of the spineless brainwashed muppets just didn’t get this months email on what to think and say?
UNITE my hairy arse ha ha…

Oh, and if you’re offended by my post, just pop along to your rep and report me, he will care, maybe take some time off to get over it, you know, cause your in the union so it’s ok. The less work the better.

yawn! :unamused: did McClusky " RIG " it again? Lol :open_mouth:

Evil8Beezle:

Norfolkinclue1:
No axe to grind, just a very strong opinion, never been in a union or needed one or left myself in a position to indeed need one. Maybe people’s poor choice of employer makes them feel like they need one, at which point my question would be " why are you even there?"
Clearly Snowman finds issue with my choice of language but hey ho, i won’t bite on the nutter issue, or tin foil hat wearing nut job as he said in his post, it will just go on and on and become tedious. We clearly are from very different sides of the fence.Suffice to say I have my view and indeed labels for those that need a union in there lives in place of what they feel they can’t do for themselves as a grown adult ( is that a little less offensive for you Snowman?)
Anyway, I’m off to enjoy the weekend as it’s sunny. I don’t want to get drawn into arguments about posting style and insults, I thought this was a place that could handle a rant or two with a bit of choice language, I was wrong. It’s becoming more like mumsnet everyday, your choice of elocution shouldn’t be used as reason to ignore or indeed dismiss your point in my world
My view will never change on this particular issue.

I must confess that I’m a little confused as to why you’re so anti union, when you say you’ve never needed one, or had any experience of one?

Myself I’m a little conflicted, as in principle I think they are a good thing, I just don’t think they work unfortunately for reasons George Orwell has made clear.

I was in unions for about 30 years and my experiences were that some people were reps for their own advancement and having achieved that status then contradicted everything that they had preached in their previous capacity.

Others were simply ensuring they got what they wanted and stuff everyone else and some just couldn’t be bothered to do what they were there do, look after the best interests of their members.

In a thin market it is possible to drastically alter a forthcoming “result” with a low number of “added” or “missing” ballots - especially when it’s for the candidate “expected” to finish second.

This particular election has “Fiddle” and “Bent” written all over it of course - but then again, I’m just a regular conspiracy theorist who happens to believe that McCluskey needs to be removed before he starts removing those workers “not on board” with his left-wing policy agenda. You’d only have to suspend the chasing candidate just before the ballot to then be able to legitimately declare all votes for that candidate “spoiled”, and then re-instate them in time for the result to be an easy and expected win for the leading candidate - but on extremely low, even laughable turnout. Hmm…

Strike Breakers, Overtime Workers, Weekend Workers, Night Workers, and any other kind of “Well Paid” worker ANYWHERE stand to lose out from his advance.

Don’t let him brand us all as “Scabs” just because that happens to be the thin end of the wedge when it comes to re-branding everyone currently “outside” of his spehere of (growing) influence.
I’ve never broken a strike in my life for example - but I consider myself a regular attendee of the rest of that grouping above.

I have no interest in Unions that only give political power to their union boss - and represent worker suicide for the regular members in the long run.
McCluskey is no better for the regular members than Scargill was for the miners.

Norfolkinclue1:
Oh and Rob, to answer your two points…

  1. Always tried to work for decent small to medium outfits including on my own on vans around Europe and North Africa when the opportunity arose.Whenever I got the feeling things were going to change for the worse I would put things in place to change rather than leave it too late and jump into the unknown leaving me to have to take anything no matter what. Also because I have a family to support I want to be in a position where the money and job are consistent.

  2. Nope, never ever have been,all will be, one of those who says yes sir yes sir. Would never work for a company that expected it or treated drivers or any other staff like that.
    I thinks it’s those yes sir types that would go for a union, they pay the money for someone else to think for them as they can’t think for themselves and sort things out for themselves.

Yes my views are very strongly anti union, but that’s in the modern workplace. I do understand what they did when they first started, but that was needed back then.

And you don’t think something is needed today? :open_mouth:

Things are very similar to then, all workers rights and benefits, (incidentally all gained by our forefathers in unions whether you like that or not) are being gradually eroded.
Just look around, zero hours contracts, bullying by employers, bank holidays being included in accrued holidays, same pay rate right through in place of 40 hours +.
The list goes on down to the small example I gave previously in my daughter’s office, which is commonplace all over.

I do think your obvious hate of unions is a bit disproportional to your work experiences,.and maybe something you aint telling us?
I also fail to see your point about ‘yes sir types’ making up the union membership, on the contrary I would say, it is those sorry arses that cause, or at least exacerbate the problem by bending over and just accepting everything.
All the unions in the country can’t help those guys, they are beyond help.

As a union member can i just mention i couldn’t give a tuppeny ■■■■ which arse is on the grand seat at the top of the union tree, nor do i give a tuppeny ■■■■ how much his or her pension will be, nor who he/she is married or partnered with, nor if their kids go to public school.

The head honcho isn’t the union as far as rank and file union members are concerned, they crawled up a greasy pole via the union instead of the usual corporate or civil service routes.
They aint Bob Crowe (RIP) because genuine working class leaders of unions like Bob Crowe (who never forgot who he was) don’t grow on trees, and the chances of finding another? probably about as much chance as i have of ■■■■■■■ in the queens handbag.

See for us common or garden union members, we are the union, our elected stewards discuss terms with management and then it gets put to a vote, and being a democracy unlike the EU (and seemingly a large minority of liberal lefties in this country) we abide by the majority decision.
The fact that those often loud mouths who trash the union have no problem trousering the pay awards we members attain for them, they fail entirely to see the irony.

Juddian:
As a union member can i just mention i couldn’t give a tuppeny [zb] which arse is on the grand seat at the top of the union tree, nor do i give a tuppeny [zb] how much his or her pension will be, nor who he/she is married or partnered with, nor if their kids go to public school.

The head honcho isn’t the union as far as rank and file union members are concerned, they crawled up a greasy pole via the union instead of the usual corporate or civil service routes.
They aint Bob Crowe (RIP) because genuine working class leaders of unions like Bob Crowe (who never forgot who he was) don’t grow on trees, and the chances of finding another? probably about as much chance as i have of ■■■■■■■ in the queens handbag.

See for us common or garden union members, we are the union, our elected stewards discuss terms with management and then it gets put to a vote, and being a democracy unlike the EU (and seemingly a large minority of liberal lefties in this country) we abide by the majority decision.
The fact that those often loud mouths who trash the union have no problem trousering the pay awards we members attain for them, they fail entirely to see the irony.

Good one Juddian.
Unfortunately those who only see the world through the lens of . . certain newspapers… will still believe that unions are run by “Red Robbos” calling wildcat strikes. Jimmy Hoffa never was a visitor to the TUC in Brighton, no matter what the Dirty Digger and others would have you them believe! :slight_smile:

Juddian:
See for us common or garden union members, we are the union, our elected stewards discuss terms with management and then it gets put to a vote, and being a democracy unlike the EU (and seemingly a large minority of liberal lefties in this country) we abide by the majority decision.
The fact that those often loud mouths who trash the union have no problem trousering the pay awards we members attain for them, they fail entirely to see the irony.

^This.

Although to be fair it isn’t unknown for a union to actually agree a retrograde deal for the members with management which then goes through without a ballot or even consultation but which is still binding.No surprise the management side doesn’t moan about balloting in that case.

Meanwhile for all their faults,( and no one ever said they are,or expects them to be,perfect because in many case it goes along the lines of having to break a few eggs to make an omelette,which is a reasonable description of Hoffa’s 1960’s US Teamsters ),does that mean the working class would be better off without strong unions.No.As we see in the difference between the terms and conditions enjoyed by train drivers v their truck driver counterparts for one example.

Having said that the result of the ballot in this case is probably just an indication of the working class rightly being sick of being told that Socialism is the solution to all their problems and that only people like McCluskey and Corbyn supposedly have the monopoly over working class solidarity and interests.

There’s not a lot any Union can do for individual members now that the very same individual member cannot do for themselves, with the right know-how obviously.

“You can’t get me 'cos I’m in the Union” works just as well as “You can’t get me 'cos I know my own rights” or even “You can’t get me 'cos I’ve actually read the T&Cs on my contract”.

Make the effort, and save yourselves from being held back to the speed of the slowest, like some kind of lethiathan convoy.

Unions are for groups. Individuals should be as a gas, free to roam where they will, knowing what they do is the best way to do it. As every trucker out there doing anything more than “local domestic runs” should know already of course.

The Labour party, and it’s supporting Unions have let more than one Trojan Horse in already. They show no signs of stopping as of yet.

Unchecked Immigration so that meaty beefing up of Tax Credits ends up not going to Mrs Mopp getting a job down the local factory - but to Agatha-■■■-lately instead.
Anyone British you know getting any jobs washing cars at those car wash places that proliferate?

A party that pushes what I’ve always called “Creeping Atheism” upon us all via the Political and Educational establishment pretty much the entire lives of those people active today.
A bit hypocritical though that this very irreligious-pushing bunch whilst happy to slag off Judeo-Christian Britain in all it’s forms, have instead made some kind of unholy alliance with Militant Islam, with only the occasional ■■■■-up causing the occasional “leaks” where they are not supposed to be in the form of Anti-Semitic remarks getting out from momentum activists in particular. I’m not talking about anything Ken Livingstone says, he’s on another planet compared to the venom I’ve already seen among Momentum activists when it comes to the re-branding where ‘everyone Jewish is a Phillip Green’ and ‘everyone Christian is a hippy arm-waving loon’.
All the while, the hard Left grows in strength until we end up being voted out of Law in our own countries, by which point Islamists can turn upon it’s allies, and discard them once they have finished serving their purpose.
It’s about time that those Labour supporters that are not of the Hard left and Not of Islam - WOKE UP and did what they can to stop this advance.

I wonder if the mass resignations of seats currently taking place in Westminster right now - is something along those lines. Let’s not end up leaving our Parliament to the Lefties though please, because all the moderates have chucked it in.

We’re not long away now from being banned from London, and it’s as if we stand like Charles De Gaulle with our beloved capital taken over by the worst enemy imaginable, whilst we’re expected to go into exile to try and fathom a way to win it all back again.

If I were wrong - we would be seeing evidence of Labour councils doing a lot more to crack down on “no go areas” for a start. Perhaps if one were Jewish, you might have enough money in the family to grab the opportunities that get out of here completely, which just leaves the increasingly disenfranchised Christian communities under ever more pressure. They, alas, - cannot quit! They’ve not got the money to go elsewhere.
They are the ones riddled with debts. Atheists riddled with debts don’t have the moral prerogative to pay what cannot be collected. With the increasing numbers of Islamists that don’t borrow at all, Christians feeling the pinch, Jewish getting ever less on their dwindling savings, and Atheists strategically defaulting debts on a nation-busting scale - the time will soon come for the real inquisition to begin. I reckon we’ve got until 2030 at best before it passes the point of no return.

Soap Box.jpg

The first signs that I’m right here will be Theresa May getting a lot LESS seats that what we’ve all led to expect. A lot MORE seats need to change hands in this forthcoming election to keep the rest of us safe as well!

The best result in the election from my point of view here is Labour’s surge comes at the expense of the SNP and the Libdems rather than takes Theresa May’s flimsy majority away from her, forcing a hung parliament which we already know would end up with Corbyn in bed with Krankie - perish the thought!

Conservative - Gain a handful of seats overall, but lose all their remainer MPs in Brexit-voting seats. That would mean losing about 50 MPs and gaining about 60. A total of 340, for an increased majority of 10.
Labour - Far from collapsing, they would win previously safe Tory seats in areas with large numbers of NHS workers in them in particular. Whilst not advancing enough at this stage to win the election - they WOULD gain enough to keep Corbyn at the helm POST election, despite Labour losing. Labour’s tally I can see as them losing around 40 seats, but gaining 100, for a total of 289. The wheels come off Labour’s wagon though, because that impressive rally in Labour’s total comes at the expense of the SNP who I see as collapsing from 54 to 3 seats, and the Libdems would be wiped out if it were not for Vince Cable winning his old seat back making him the only Libdem MP in the house. Expect a lot of newly minted Independent MPs too, but don’t look to UKIP for any. :frowning:

SHHHhhhhhhh.
Let’s all just sneak away and leave them to it.
:bulb:
We’ll come back when they have both bored the arse off each other into oblivion.
:smiley:

Nice one Rob, just thinking something similar when I got to your post.