Recording 2nd job hours

[ManFlexSrs]

Hi

Just passed my Class 1 license and have an agency who I can get some work through. I work another job which is my main job 3/4 days a week and want to drive around this. My question is how would I go about recording my hours in my other job, so these Ned to be entered onto the tacho or just kept say on a spreadsheet to track working hours etc?

Thanks

[Acorn]

Is the 2nd job also driving within EU if so all will
Be on your card, if not then it’s other work and needs to bevrevirddd as per the 28 days rules

[Road2ruin]

For the WTD you need to record the hours in writing and give them to EACH employer.

For the EU driver's hours, whenever you are driving, you need to make sure you are carrying 28 days of records. The records must show each minute of each days, there are not allowed to be any gaps. The way this is recorded depends on when you drive. Ideally all hours should be recorded via you tacho using manual entries. However, that would be difficult if you didn't drive for several days. You may then be able to record the hours on the back of the tacho paper by the means of a manual trace. Lastly, if you are off for more than a week, you could possible use a letter or letters of attestation.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... other-work

best to do some read or get yourself on a GOOD drivers hours and record Driver CPC course.

[ManFlexSrs]

Thanks for the replies, my main job is not driving related and only counts towards WTD. I plan to drive maybe once a week but if I can’t get work could be 2/3 weeks apart etc so putting in 2/3 weeks of work into the Tacho could be a bit tedious which is why I was looking towards paper records but if needs be I’ll record them on paper then just sit there and enter them in when I drive.

[Acorn]

Then looks like you need to get real familiar with manual entries. And maintaining those 28 day records for every occasion driving under EU rules

[ROG]

Non driving job WTD and driving job WTD do not get added together

The non driving job cannot be counted as rest

[ROG]

For the non driving job a diary of your hours seems to be the way to go

[stu675]

Hopefully @Goff118 will say what he does, in a similar situation to you.

[Goff118]

Hey, well done on the pass and getting agency work so quickly!

As Stu mentions, I currently work 5 days Monday - Friday in an office, then every other Sunday driving. I started off by recording it all via manual entries, but as you say, this is tedious.

The last time I tried recording the non-driving work was an occasion when I hadn't driven for a month or 6 weeks. I found out there and then that there is a limit to the number of entries you can actually make on a manual entry.

Now I just make a manual entry with my working time up until the end of my last shift, followed by a period of "?", then back to working time for the first few minutes of the current shift before the card has gone in. I then fill in the back of tachograph paper with my details along with a description of my working time + breaks for the days between the two shifts.

See below the DVSA response when I checked it with them.

The record of other work must be either:

•             written manually on a chart; or

•             written manually on printout paper a digital or smart tachograph; or

•             made by using the manual input facility of a digital or smart tachograph

It is not acceptable to use a logbook, timesheet or any other method to record other work and rest, the only 3 acceptable methods are those I have listed above. Training requirements relating to the operation of tachograph units can be sought from your operator/employer.

Hope this helps you!


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[ManFlexSrs]

Hey, well done on the pass and getting agency work so quickly!

As Stu mentions, I currently work 5 days Monday - Friday in an office, then every other Sunday driving. I started off by recording it all via manual entries, but as you say, this is tedious.

The last time I tried recording the non-driving work was an occasion when I hadn't driven for a month or 6 weeks. I found out there and then that there is a limit to the number of entries you can actually make on a manual entry.

Now I just make a manual entry with my working time up until the end of my last shift, followed by a period of "?", then back to working time for the first few minutes of the current shift before the card has gone in. I then fill in the back of tachograph paper with my details along with a description of my working time + breaks for the days between the two shifts.

See below the DVSA response when I checked it with them.

The record of other work must be either:

•             written manually on a chart; or

•             written manually on printout paper a digital or smart tachograph; or

•             made by using the manual input facility of a digital or smart tachograph

It is not acceptable to use a logbook, timesheet or any other method to record other work and rest, the only 3 acceptable methods are those I have listed above. Training requirements relating to the operation of tachograph units can be sought from your operator/employer.

Hope this helps you!


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Thanks makes sense, do you print out end of driving shift and then write on the back or at the start? And what do you record as in the between or just not do a manual entry and continue from there?

[Goff118]

Thanks makes sense, do you print out end of driving shift and then write on the back or at the start? And what do you record as in the between or just not do a manual entry and continue from there?

I use paper from a spare tacho roll instead of doing any printouts. I do this straight after the manual entry so I don't forget.

What do you mean by in the between sorry?



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[ManFlexSrs]

Thanks makes sense, do you print out end of driving shift and then write on the back or at the start? And what do you record as in the between or just not do a manual entry and continue from there?

I use paper from a spare tacho roll instead of doing any printouts. I do this straight after the manual entry so I don't forget.

What do you mean by in the between sorry?



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Ah ok I’ve got a spare roll so that’s no issue. I read it as you drive then don’t put anything on your tacho till your next drive and only record driving on your tacho and your main job is recorded manually on paper? If this is the case then when you insert your card do you just skip a manual entry and leave it as unrecorded?

[Goff118]

So when I finish my shift, I take the card out, then when I put it back in at the start of the next shift, I do a manual entry as below.

1. Other work - recording the time from when I ejected the card on the previous shift until the end of the shift (allowing time for me to hand paperwork in etc)

2. "?" on the tacho - which is basically time that's not accounted for on the digicard. I use the "?" Symbol to cover the period from the end of the last shift until the beginning of the current one (the time that's accounted for on my written record on the tacho paper).

3. Other work - recording the time from the start of the shift until the time the card is entered.

I've not ever been pulled by DVSA so haven't got practical experience on how they'd view it, but from my email correspondence with them, it is the best way I can manage it at the moment, although it should soon become far more straightforward for me as I'll have a lot less non-driving work to record!

Hope this helps explain it more clearly!

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[ManFlexSrs]

So when I finish my shift, I take the card out, then when I put it back in at the start of the next shift, I do a manual entry as below.

1. Other work - recording the time from when I ejected the card on the previous shift until the end of the shift (allowing time for me to hand paperwork in etc)

2. "?" on the tacho - which is basically time that's not accounted for on the digicard. I use the "?" Symbol to cover the period from the end of the last shift until the beginning of the current one (the time that's accounted for on my written record on the tacho paper).

3. Other work - recording the time from the start of the shift until the time the card is entered.

I've not ever been pulled by DVSA so haven't got practical experience on how they'd view it, but from my email correspondence with them, it is the best way I can manage it at the moment, although it should soon become far more straightforward for me as I'll have a lot less non-driving work to record!

Hope this helps explain it more clearly!

Sent from my DUB-LX1 using Tapatalk

Perfect thanks for the explanation!

[Zac_A]

Due to input of RHA, DVSA conceded a fourth option to record non-driving activities: a DVSA-standard Attestation Letter.

Any savvy TM who is up to date with their refresher training and the current legislation should have a copy of a DVSA-standard template document, which needs to be completed on a computer, printed out and signed. But on the assumption that you're not dealing with a savvy TM, you can get your own copy from the link below.

FYI, this is about recording your activities for the purposes of being in the clear if you're stopped by DVSA, who are not interested in WTD/RTD, so talking about that is just muddying the waters. You're obliged to tell your main employer in writing about your second job; if they then want evidence of hours worked in the second job, then that is up to them to request it.

Also, recording on a printout should be done on paper that has the tacho card details on it, so: card in, do printout of last driving shift, pull out some extra paper if you need to, and and then write the missing info on the back of that so it is absolutely clear to DVSA whose card the written activities refers to.

https://news.rha.uk.net/2022/08/30/rha- ... ntent.html

[Goff118]

Due to input of RHA, DVSA conceded a fourth option to record non-driving activities: a DVSA-standard Attestation Letter.

Any savvy TM who is up to date with their refresher training and the current legislation should have a copy of a DVSA-standard template document, which needs to be completed on a computer, printed out and signed. But on the assumption that you're not dealing with a savvy TM, you can get your own copy from the link below.

FYI, this is about recording your activities for the purposes of being in the clear if you're stopped by DVSA, who are not interested in WTD/RTD, so talking about that is just muddying the waters. You're obliged to tell your main employer in writing about your second job; if they then want evidence of hours worked in the second job, then that is up to them to request it.

Also, recording on a printout should be done on paper that has the tacho card details on it, so: card in, do printout of last driving shift, pull out some extra paper if you need to, and and then write the missing info on the back of that so it is absolutely clear to DVSA whose card the written activities refers to.

https://news.rha.uk.net/2022/08/30/rha- ... ntent.html

Amazing, thanks Zac. I will stick with the tacho paper option. At the moment I write my name, card number etc. on the paper, but I guess it is easier to just do a printout of the last shift. Thanks again!

[Noremac]

Non driving job WTD and driving job WTD do not get added together

The employer you are working for under EU drivers' hours rules should request all the hours you work elsewhere. In practical terms they may put this in the contract obligating you to inform them, or on a timesheet.

ROG frequently posts that the two don't get added together, but I have no source for this, so the legislation would seem to be foremost.

The legislation says the following under Regulation 11:

[ROG]

Non driving job WTD and driving job WTD do not get added together

The employer you are working for under EU drivers' hours rules should request all the hours you work elsewhere. In practical terms they may put this in the contract obligating you to inform them, or on a timesheet.

ROG frequently posts that the two don't get added together, but I have no source for this, so the legislation would seem to be foremost.

The legislation says the following under Regulation 11:

Member tachograph found the legislation regarding the 2 WTD issues

If I remember correctly it has something to with being able to fully opt out of the non driving WTD - not certain that was the finding

[Zac_A]

The devil is in the detail with Rog's statement (as it is with all interpretation of legislation) - whilst the two might not get added together, as Rog has already stated "time working in a non-driving job can't be counted as rest for a driving job". So, in practice it amounts to the same thing, despite the wording.

Bottom line, If you're on the road and not properly rested, you'll be at risk, and where there's an accident, the "my mate reckons..." online post, whether from TN or elsewhere, will not help you under questioning from the CPS Barrister. If someone has died as a result of the incident, the Barrister will be on a mission to make you look like Peter Sutcliffe's best mate.

[Noremac]

Non driving job WTD and driving job WTD do not get added together

The employer you are working for under EU drivers' hours rules should request all the hours you work elsewhere. In practical terms they may put this in the contract obligating you to inform them, or on a timesheet.

ROG frequently posts that the two don't get added together, but I have no source for this, so the legislation would seem to be foremost.

The legislation says the following under Regulation 11:

Member tachograph found the legislation regarding the 2 WTD issues

If I remember correctly it has something to with being able to fully opt out of the non driving WTD - not certain that was the finding

I think I remember something vaguely, I think it was along the lines of the hours don't count towards the 48 hour average or the 60 hour max if the other employer isn't involved in transport (or the activities of the mobile worker are totally non-transport related).

If the above is the case, which it may well be, Regulation 11 could be clearer.

[Noremac]

Thanks for the replies, my main job is not driving related and only counts towards WTD. I plan to drive maybe once a week but if I can’t get work could be 2/3 weeks apart etc so putting in 2/3 weeks of work into the Tacho could be a bit tedious which is why I was looking towards paper records but if needs be I’ll record them on paper then just sit there and enter them in when I drive.

The amount of information required is slightly different if a fixed week passes without any in-scope driving contained within it. The fixed week is Monday 00:00 to Sunday 24:00.

In a week with in-scope driving, a full record should be kept. This is a full breakdown of every day and including work, breaks, rest etc.

In a week without in-scope driving (without getting too in-depth and complicated about it), you definitely need to record your weekly rest and your final daily rest if you are going direct from that into EU driving the following week.

Make sure your name is on the tachograph paper and write the blocks as necessary.