Operational lifespan of 60's and 70's trucks

[Dennis Javelin]

I've just driven from Devon to Glasgow and (the things you do on a boring motorway journey) I took a mental note of the ages of the trucks that were using the motorways. I struck me how many trucks were over 5 years old with quite a few 12 years old. There was even an ERF on a N plate pulling a 40' trailer. Now the first time I ever did this journey was when I was based at Plymouth dockyard in 1976 so it got me thinking - when I did this journey in 1976 how many trucks over 5 years old would I have seen. Would it have been around the same % as today?

So my question is, what was the average lifespan of trucks built in the 60's and 70's?

[Kempston]

I've just driven from Devon to Glasgow and (the things you do on a boring motorway journey) I took a mental note of the ages of the trucks that were using the motorways. I struck me how many trucks were over 5 years old with quite a few 12 years old. There was even an ERF on a N plate pulling a 40' trailer. Now the first time I ever did this journey was when I was based at Plymouth dockyard in 1976 so it got me thinking - when I did this journey in 1976 how many trucks over 5 years old would I have seen. Would it have been around the same % as today?

So my question is, what was the average lifespan of trucks built in the 60's and 70's?

Just as a gut feeling and nothing more than that I would say lorries were kept for longer years ago, lots of the bigger operators have a renewal policy, 2 years, 3, 4 etc whereas years ago vehicles were pretty much run until they were scrapped or virtually worthless, I also think they were easier to maintain years ago, far less technical stuff and more just mechanical. My dad was a HGV Mechanic but I have no idea how he would’ve coped with all the technology nowadays. We live in a throwaway society nowadays.

[Buzzer]

Kempston I think you are bang on as back in the day vehicles were run till they could no longer do the job and there were no DVLA to worry about either, when I started buying new vehicles in numbers in the early 90's I had a 3 year replacement policy with all trucks under warranty for the duration but nowadays my boys have kept them 8 years but contract maintained which covers all failures and they have ten new Scanias on order but slow to arrive, infact the salesman said he cannot take any orders next year as no availability, Buzzer

[Dipster]

So much has changed that leads (or led until supply problems obliged owners to retain older vehicles to get the job done) modern fleets to be renewed rather more regularly than before. Technical advances, pollution rules, the many attractive financing options of the vehicles, all lead to a change of vehicle sooner than in the past.

The downside of all this is that whereas older vehicles would finish their life in Europe and then move on for another in Africa or South America that is much less likely due to their technical complexity. Thus their resale value is reduced. I used to see many older trucks in Africa a decade ago. Now I see modern Chinese built vehicles built with local "maintenance" and repair in mind.

[Chris Webb]

Firms like A E Evans who I worked for hung on to AEC MK3s until 1972 and MK5s a couple of years later.They were buying ex LPG Transport tilt cab Mammoth Majors that were on a D 1966 plate in 1971.We had a MK3 MM at Sheffield that was still on road in 1971 that was registered in 1955 - PYO *** it was.I inherited an ex LPG Mandator JWW 896D in 1972,when they bought it they took the AV691 engine out and put a AV760 in.VWW 892F was bought ex LPG in 1974 IIRC.
When MOT time came around the vehicles were in VMU for days and I can't recall one ever failing test.
When I went to Multiple Fruit Supplies at Maltby in 1978 they kept their tractor units,nearly all Scanias,for only two years as they were all double shifted and accumulated high mileages.

[tonyj105]

Kempston I think you are bang on as back in the day vehicles were run till they could no longer do the job and there were no DVLA to worry about either, when I started buying new vehicles in numbers in the early 90's I had a 3 year replacement policy with all trucks under warranty for the duration but nowadays my boys have kept them 8 years but contract maintained which covers all failures and they have ten new Scanias on order but slow to arrive, infact the salesman said he cannot take any orders next year as no availability, Buzzer

our site dumper build slots are all taken up until end of next year, order 1 now and it'll be 2023 before you see it.
tony

[[zb] anorak]

Modern vehicles are far more durable. When Leyland was testing the water with the Gas Turbine, they were touting an engine life of 400,000 miles, IIRC; modern engines last double that distance, and more. 20th Century cabs would be full of rust after 5 years; 2010-model trucks look like new on the road today.

Of course, the modern vehicles cannot be repaired as easily. The crap that kills them- control systems mainly, are foisted upon us by legislation. The motor industry loves it, because it means they can sell the extra hardware, and keep selling it. The banks love it, because they know what design engineers are up to- preparing for the next round of emissions/safety/security nonsense. They don't want maverick firms putting others out of business, with clever ideas. Those [zb] like their 10% guaranteed.

The technology exists to make vehicles which last 20 years then, with an ordinary overhaul, do the same again.

[ParkRoyal2100]

So my question is, what was the average lifespan of trucks built in the 60's and 70's?

Perhaps the answer to that question is, in part, what do you call a lorry? Is it its chassis? Its engine and gearbox? Its cab? If you change one or more of its parts, is it still the same wagon?

I suppose what I'm suggesting is that in previous times, engines/ axles/ gearboxes/ cabs were easier to remove/ recondition/ replace than is the case now.

I'm not sure I've answered your question, so I should probably shut up.

[Kempston]

So my question is, what was the average lifespan of trucks built in the 60's and 70's?

Perhaps the answer to that question is, in part, what do you call a lorry? Is it its chassis? Its engine and gearbox? Its cab? If you change one or more of its parts, is it still the same wagon?

I suppose what I'm suggesting is that in previous times, engines/ axles/ gearboxes/ cabs were easier to remove/ recondition/ replace than is the case now.

I'm not sure I've answered your question, so I should probably shut up.

Sounds like Trigger

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAh8HryVaeY

[ParkRoyal2100]

So my question is, what was the average lifespan of trucks built in the 60's and 70's?

Perhaps the answer to that question is, in part, what do you call a lorry? Is it its chassis? Its engine and gearbox? Its cab? If you change one or more of its parts, is it still the same wagon?

I suppose what I'm suggesting is that in previous times, engines/ axles/ gearboxes/ cabs were easier to remove/ recondition/ replace than is the case now.

I'm not sure I've answered your question, so I should probably shut up.

Sounds like Trigger

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAh8HryVaeY

Perfick

[ramone]

I thought but could be wrong that years ago hauliers refurbished older motors and put them back out. A bit like LT did with the Routemasters but probably not to the same extent

[ERF-NGC-European]

I thought but could be wrong that years ago hauliers refurbished older motors and put them back out. A bit like LT did with the Routemasters but probably not to the same extent

The introduction of Euro 1 to 6 has rather distorted the picture by creating premature obsoleteness.

[windrush]

Tilcon had a six year replacement policy, however when they sold the fleet off I had my Foden for over ten years and then it was sold to an OD for further service. In the sixties I worked on many early post war Morris Commercials, vehicles went on until they literally rotted away! When I worked for a Bedford dealer in 1974 we had a customer who ran an O Type that he bought new in 1949, every year we went to his yard with our breakdown and lifted the front end onto a chain stretched between two trees where he then cleaned it underneath with paraffin and a brush for its annual test.

Pete.

[Suedehead]

Harrisons from Sheffield and Spiers of Melksham spring to mind. They certainly got their moneys worth out the motors they ran.

[ramone]

I thought but could be wrong that years ago hauliers refurbished older motors and put them back out. A bit like LT did with the Routemasters but probably not to the same extent

The introduction of Euro 1 to 6 has rather distorted the picture by creating premature obsoleteness.

True , there will be lots of very good lorries going for a song which are perfectly fine , no doubt they will end up in Africa , which makes a mockery of it all . I drive a Daf approaching 12 years old which will cost our company £50 a time to go to one of our sites in Bradford from January. Suedehead makes a good point about Harrisons and Speirs who ran their lorries well past their sell by date. Chris Webb posted photos of an Evans 6 wheeler mkv unit which was originally an 8 wheeler , it doesn't happen now probably because nothings made to last anymore

[Kempston]

Harrisons from Sheffield and Spiers of Melksham spring to mind. They certainly got their moneys worth out the motors they ran.

You can add London Brick to that list.

[Rustler]

I run a 24 year old Daf drawbar on straw so no problem with low emission zones. Manual box with no electronics, can always get home without help from man with a laptop . Will keep running it until i eventually retire.

[JIMBO47]

I was driving 1969 and 70s and early 80s Mack trucks in 2010 in rural Canada not huge mileages daily but they did a lot . Drove a 99 Mack 3thousand mile a week in the season 2010-16

[JIMBO47]

Bit old fashioned 99 bu

t still practical .

[kmills]

Chaps, Harrison's & Spiers of Melksham were mere amateurs - Rosser's of Pontlliw really knew how to make a wagon last....

[ramone]

Another thing to look at now is that with the job market the way it is many drivers will go to where the newer vehicles are , and many transport companies are realising this , some how though Mercedes still manage to sell lorries .

[Dennis Javelin]

Thanks for all the replies. It would appear that in the case of specialist vehicles they would have had a long lifespan but can I ask for your opinions on trucks that would be mainly used on trunking duties ie artics. With the change over from 8 wheelers to artics in the mid to late 60's and the higher speed limits available were the artics capable of the high mileages that the new motorway system would have allowed.

[Bewick]

The longest trunk we ran at Bewick Tpt in the late 70's was Milnthorpe to Hockliffe a round trip of 432 miles 5 or 6 nights a week.

[Dennis Javelin]

The longest trunk we ran at Bewick Tpt in the late 70's was Milnthorpe to Hockliffe a round trip of 432 miles 5 or 6 nights a week.

If you don't mind me asking what would have been the make-up of your fleet then?

[Suedehead]

Chaps, Harrison's & Spiers of Melksham were mere amateurs - Rosser's of Pontlliw really knew how to make a wagon last....

[Bewick]

The longest trunk we ran at Bewick Tpt in the late 70's was Milnthorpe to Hockliffe a round trip of 432 miles 5 or 6 nights a week.

If you don't mind me asking what would have been the make-up of your fleet then?

'73 to '76 Atkinson Borderers 220 Cummins , Seddon 32/4 220 Cummins & ERF A Series 220 Cummins.
76 to '78 Sed Atk 8LXB's/ Scania 111 5speed day cab
79 to '83 ERF B Series 8LXB's
83 onwards Scania R & P 112's/113's & F10 299 bhp
The above list was just the Milnthorpe double shifters but by the early 90's we had trunks running from our Radcliffe depot and also north from Dunstable and Brooklands using P cab 4x2 's & 6x2 R 113's 360's.
I think that about sums our trunk system up over 20 odd years ! Bewick.